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  • How about some new alien tactics?

    It seems like the marine teams keep getting better and better, and it is spelling death for the alien team. Other than the elevated skill, alien play is not much different than an ordinary pub, and that wonít cut it against an organized marine team.

    Something that is really apparent to me is how easily aliens loose RTs in the early game. It should be considered a HUGE loss if the aliens loose an RT, and yet people let them fall without giving it a second thought.

    It would be nice to see alien teams that save nodes that are under attack, parasite regularly, and bait/ambush groups of marines. And please please please listen to each other, I donít know how many times I or other people have said "incoming to hive", and then a minute later people are wondering where the second hive went.

    Anyone else have some ideas of what could be worked on to improve the alien play on the server?
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  • #2
    Re: How about some new alien tactics?

    This is a great thread, and the timing for it couldn't be better.

    Parasite at range. A LOT. Parasite kills armor when used effectively.

    Come to think of it, I recommend we mention one alien tactic at a time and work to improve, as a group, on that one tactic. There is so much room for improvement.

    Perhaps we could start with parasiting at range? That's something everyone can do as individuals.. then we can work on ambushing perhaps, then baiting... and move more and more into the realm of (unspoken and reliable?) melee coordination.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    • #3
      Re: How about some new alien tactics?

      The issue is that marines have a clearly defined, unified command structure in the commander. He can easily direct marines around with a single goal in his own mind. Aliens lack this. The hivesight is supposed to help compensate for this but it does something horribly wrong: It assumes people will listen to it without an incentive. In an open public server this spells disaster, as no one is obligated to listen to the hivesight's implied commands (Translate "Resource Tower is Under Attack" to "Go save the resource tower under attack" and you understand what I mean). When people understand this and follow it, the game goes a lot better for aliens. Alternatively someone taking command on aliens and has aliens that actually listen to him also works, that's how the competitive scene does it. Maximize damage and minimize economy losses are the name of the game, and often aliens do neither, which is why they lose.

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      • #4
        Re: How about some new alien tactics?

        Let me be perfectly blunt about something: reminding people, CONSTANTLY, about things that WILL improve THEIR game requires a LOT.. a HELL OF A LOT... of effort and dedication.

        You must place above (even if only slightly above) your concern for this game your concern for their progress, and you must stay on them (those who want to learn and improve) until what you're saying becomes second nature.

        And, to be honest, this doesn't leave much room for personalities who are quick to impatience or personal frustrations, even if brief.

        I may be way off track, but ... anyway, just food for thought.
        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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        • #5
          Re: How about some new alien tactics?

          Originally posted by TheAdj`
          Alternatively someone taking command on aliens and has aliens that actually listen to him also works, that's how the competitive scene does it. Maximize damage and minimize economy losses are the name of the game, and often aliens do neither, which is why they lose.
          When leadership is all the aliens lack in their pursuit or preservation of momentum, I'm one of a few regulars who will not hesitate to provide authoritative direction for the entire team's next few individual responsibilities. As more people gain the confidence (and realize the respect they have here, which is also) required to lead a group of aliens, things will get more dynamic and entertaining from that perspective. The trend has been evident with commanders for some time, and the same thing is happening with alien leadership, but at a much slower pace.

          I think minimizing economy losses, to revisit a point in korm's opening post, is a great place to start. We're pretty decent at establishing a res flow but far less disciplined at preserving it. Once we "minimize economy losses," the "maximizing damage," which manifests itself in melee coordination (among other ways) can become a priority.
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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          • #6
            Re: How about some new alien tactics?

            I think a large part of the problem with the alien res defense is that alien res flow is much more indirect than marine res flow. Marines get it in a nice pool, your typical grunt doesn't even worry about it, and its a routine thing to walk through res node areas and cap as you go.

            Aliens can't cap as they go, due to the requirement of being a gorge, and the personal res cost associated with it. Also, you typically have your gorgy aliens, and your combat aliens. Combat aliens see a lot of their res come from RFK, and we rarely look at our res bar until we need/want something, like a higher lifeform. Alien res accumulation has a much more 'passive' feel to it than marine res does, because the majority of aliens aren't even considering it. You just look at your bar now and then and see if you can go fade or drop a couple upgrades or whatever.

            I almost favor the old 1.04 alien res structure because of this...your melee aliens didn't have to think about it. Your gorge handled everything, and when your gorge said something needed to defend it, you did it, because your gorge was the precious! Since melee aliens don't feel or really consider the slow trickle of res, as we're focused more on combat subjects, "resource tower under attack" doesn't register as something terribly urgent, in fact, I'd daresay that we almost expect the gorges themselves to take care of it (though this obviously isn't very possible).

            So...thats just the reason. I find that insight into the problem first hand helps in creating a better solution. That being so, I wish more people would say exactly what they were thinking at point x when someone asks, instead of "I don't know" or "I'm sorry, okay!" But thats really an entirely different matter.
            --T3C[]-[]N0 []v[]UFF1N

            The vending machine originated in Egypt in 215 B.C. Learn somethin new everyday, dontcha?

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            • #7
              Re: How about some new alien tactics?

              Originally posted by ----paranoid----
              With the influx of new players the alien team had gone downhill in the past week or so. The last game i played was terrible. No-one covered anything, did any recon. The only warning was, Two marines in west access, i got there to find the WHOLE team with SG and that = Dead fade in .345 sec :icon_bigg . Then the hive was attacked no one responded. Again being the only person to defend the hive other than one skulk, I again as a fade died in .568 sec, mainly because 6 marines only had me to shoot at. After that point i just left and went pugging :icon23:


              It will just take time for everyone to remember to protect RT'S and that it takes the WHOLE TEAM to defend a hive.

              Just my useless opinion

              Lol i was that one skulk...
              Anyway, i too have seen this happening...
              Oyee

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              • #8
                Re: How about some new alien tactics?

                Basically Aliens need a CO and maybe 1 or 2 NCOs. Also as a combat tactic rush em but in mass and all at once. No going in one at a time and flanking is important super important learn it love it live it. As skulks just ambush marines and the second you hear a node is under attack go save it.
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                • #9
                  Re: How about some new alien tactics?

                  It's entirely possible to coordinate as a team and not need a "leader" per se, but you have to have all intelligent players capable of understanding what's going on. Aliens have to do this: Slow marines from capping RTs, cap their own, and if they can't slow marines from capping they have to at least defend their own. Marines will be either capping or attacking RTs at first, with the occasional harasser (that annoying marine that camps outside the hive to get attention). If you don't attack or defend RTs marines are not only getting easy res, they're killing yours. You also need your real firepower coming out in the fade. Fades do about 75% of the damage on the alien team. Skulks are mainly RT killers, fades are marine killers, never forget that. Fades should be concentrating on attacking marines and keeping them pinned into marine start, away from alien RTs. Skulks should be chewing on marine RTs constantly, only defending when a large marine group is present somewhere that's directly threatening to a hive. Lerks are for general harassment and keeping marines from doing what they need to do. When they stand around shooting a vent or huddling in corners from spore clouds, the lerk is doing it's job. If people stick to that, they'll do well on aliens.

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                  • #10
                    Re: How about some new alien tactics?

                    I remember someone telling me one time "FeniX, stop telling people what to do." I bark orders constantly, to the point of annoyance, but I get the job done. Even if I'm not commander, I check the mini-map and bitch and moan when I see 3+ marine icons around the armory when we're loosing a phase.

                    I don't go aliens much anymore because no one wants to listen to me. No one wants to communicate. All my voice coms aside, once the original Fade/Hive/upgrades is worked out, everyone expects everything to work out.

                    I constantly ask people with res "what plans you got?" I try and look at the scenario playing out and get skulks/gorges/whatever to where we need them. I constantly tell people where I died, and how many marines were there. Very few people on the TG server do that. You know what would be great? A teammate dies somewhere and gives this info, then we setup a good ambush.

                    First thing is first. Before we talk about res nodes or other strats: the TG aliens need to work on one thing, and one thing only: communication and recon. There is nothing I hate more than hearing over voice com when I'm fade than a gorge yelling: "OMG RINES AT HIVE, RINES ATTACKING HIVE." Slow down, analyze what's going on. Do you hear a PG? TF? How many rines (even estimates work). When I see two, but think I may have heard the steps of another, I say 2+ rines coming.

                    Parasite everything outside MS. Get SoF and relay marine positions (this helped Viper (I think) and I co-ordinate our Onos attacks in that one game).

                    You can never have to much information in a game of NS. One marine outside a hive can turn into 6 with a phase gate. I will never, I repeat: never, hassle someone for giving information pertaining to the game, but I want something more than "OMG OMG OMG save the hive!"

                    Me still being a nub commander: I use the TG alien weakness to stomp them (provided they aren't stacked with members). I force them to loose nodes at the cost of marine lives. I split them up and hit different points because once a threat is over for them, they tend to get complacent again.

                    I can't tell you the number of games I've won because the skulks kept throwing themselves at a wall of marines hitting their hive instead of having one go around and take down my res nodes. I upgrade fast and pressure alien RTs to cut down on RFK and demoralize the alien team. I've won many games at the 9 minute mark with only taking down one hive.

                    I know at around the 5 minute mark, I need to be looking to kill a hive. The aliens need to know this and start posting scouts at the hives to ambush a PG builder.

                    Well, that was longer than it needed to be, but hey! You can never have too much info right?

                    PS: I have 20 res, should I be onos?

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                    • #11
                      Re: How about some new alien tactics?

                      Originally posted by TheFeniX
                      PS: I have 20 res, should I be onos?
                      Fenix wins.
                      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: How about some new alien tactics?

                        custom actually leads aliens pretty well.. the the extend i have to move my headphones away from my ears so i can hear the other stuff around me..

                        i dont htink anyone has said this yet, but gorges must must must must must get SoF as their 1st upgrade. I cannot tell you how many times this has saved a hive rush.. even tonight i count 3-4 times it worked. the harder part is getting aliens to where you are..

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                        • #13
                          Re: How about some new alien tactics?

                          I usually get SOF as skulk since they can get into vents and other places gorges cant.


                          I personally think the main problem is holding the res. You cant just drop it and expect it to protect itself, you need to literally watch it.

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                          • #14
                            Re: How about some new alien tactics?

                            Originally posted by _Ender_
                            I personally think the main problem is holding the res. You cant just drop it and expect it to protect itself, you need to literally watch it.
                            "butt waht abuot teh plugn taht maeks teh rt shot spors and teh r1nes r leik 'cool! nife teh node' but teh rt is 4all 'haha i gots teh spoores of doom' and da rines r all 'blarg im ded!!"?

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                            • #15
                              Re: How about some new alien tactics?

                              OMG YOU HAVE GUNS FOR A REASON!


                              lol
                              --T3C[]-[]N0 []v[]UFF1N

                              The vending machine originated in Egypt in 215 B.C. Learn somethin new everyday, dontcha?

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