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  • how I imagine this server is run

    First of all, note the title of this thread- how I *imagine* this server is run. Personally, I find that Wyz and the other admins do a great job, and that doing their job well is the reason why we keep coming back. So note that I'm not trying to put any words in their mouths, but I'm simply making educated guesses about their motivations. The following are my opinions and statements alone.

    Tonight, Wyz used the rez-nozzle blocking tactic that was debated in another thread. As a result, a couple of issues came up:
    Q: Is it illegal to use the tactic?
    A: Seeing as no formal announcement had been made on the topic, the answer has to be no, it is not illegal. For more, see the thread on this subject.

    Q: Was the general consensus among the people on the forums that the tactic should be banned?
    A: No it was not- pretty much split half-and-half. For more, see the thread on this subject.

    Q: Since Wyz was against the tactic, shouldn't he have banned it from the server?
    A: The answer to that question is what this thread is for.

    It seems to me that the admins here and Wyz in particular only change gameplay and/or make server rules when *the majority of the players frequenting the server* agree with said gameplay change and/or server rule. The admins do not make arbitrary rules that suit their whims. The admins seek to *obey the desires of the players*. I made a remark on the server that this is akin to democracy, where the leader(s) are supposed to obey the desires and needs of their constituency. This is as opposed to fascism, where the leaders create rules based on their personal desires and needs and enforce these on their constituency. I think it's a good thing that the admins here follow a democratic paradigm and obey the wishes of their players. I think this is the reason why we keep coming back.

    The other issue that was raised was "why did Wyz employ this tactic?". Well, it was not banned, so it was a valid tactic. As far as his motivations, Wyz stated quite clearly that he was against the use of the tactic and he felt that the people who supported its use did not realize just how unbalanced it was. As a result, he felt it necessary to employ the tactic as often as possible in order to prove his point. I'll probably start using the tactic as well for the same reasons.

    Anyway, as I said above, I'm not trying to put words in anybody's mouth, but I am trying to move the discussion that ensued on the server to the forums. I am still very much so against use of the tactic but I also respect Wyz's decision not ban it based on the feedback it has received. If you wish to debate the use of the tactic, see the other thread. If you wish to question Wyz's use of the tactic, how server rules are instated or their justifications, this is the thread for it.
    Cool! Personalized plates! Barclay, Barry, Bert, Bort...come on...Bort?

  • #2
    Re: how I imagine this server is run

    zib, was this on veil in sub5?
    If you were taht gorge i did not know, nor did he that you were gorging in there adn i was supposed to get that rt.

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    • #3
      Re: how I imagine this server is run

      For what my meager opinion is worth:

      I feel I have very little say on game policy -- that is to say, I don't feel like my words hold special weight due to my admin status. Generally, if there's a gameplay issue raised, it gets worked out here to the best of the community's ability: we admins just enforce the will of the people after that. This has been true since long before I ever became an admin, and I hope it will remain true for years to come.

      Now, that said, I still don't think we can say officially that admins "seek to obey the desires of the players". There's still a filter everything has to pass though: the TG standard of teamwork, respect, "how the game is meant to be played", etc.. A poll could be held and get unanimous consent from the players that we should play in low gravity from now on, but I can all but guarantee that idea will never see the light of day, as it's not particularly in line with the TacticalGamer philosophy.
      [volun2]
      NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
      Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
      <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
      <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

      Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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      • #4
        Re: how I imagine this server is run

        Originally posted by Pokerface
        I feel I have very little say on game policy.
        bologna! Every member of TG that pays the monthly fee should have a VERY considered opinion considering how the servers are run. When it comes to a membership, if you guys don't have your voices heard over all then there is something seriously wrong. (Correct me if Im wrong)
        USAR

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        • #5
          Re: how I imagine this server is run

          Until I see hard facts that this tactic is unbalanced: you won't get me to vote against it. From what I see it hurts the marines just as much as it hurts the aliens. For details please check my posts in the relevant thread.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: how I imagine this server is run

            Originally posted by Pokerface
            Now, that said, I still don't think we can say officially that admins "seek to obey the desires of the players".
            Perhaps I should have said "seek to obey the desires of desired players". TG seeks to find and retain what they consider to be good players that keep the game fun and the atmosphere free of the rampant immaturity that is too common with online games. ...but the point is that the admins still realize that said type of "desired players" includes many different kinds of people with many different points of view on different game/server-related issues and hence they obey the will of the majority of said desired players, and do not create rules based solely on personal whims.
            Cool! Personalized plates! Barclay, Barry, Bert, Bort...come on...Bort?

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            • #7
              Re: how I imagine this server is run

              Originally posted by squeak
              bologna! Every member of TG that pays the monthly fee should have a VERY considered opinion considering how the servers are run. When it comes to a membership, if you guys don't have your voices heard over all then there is something seriously wrong. (Correct me if Im wrong)
              Well, squeak, take my whole sentence, if you would... :)
              "I feel I have very little say on game policy -- that is to say, I don't feel like my words hold special weight due to my admin status."

              Now, with regards to those who pay, I'll go out on a limb and say that payment doesn't matter when determining gameplay policy. The server is supported by members, but the gameplay is based on a group larger than that: the regulars. Anyone who's been around long enough -- playing in the TG style -- has the ear of most everyone else, regardless of whether or not they chip in monetarily.
              [volun2]
              NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
              Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
              <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
              <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

              Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: how I imagine this server is run

                Originally posted by Pokerface
                Anyone who's been around long enough -- playing in the TG style -- has the ear of most everyone else, regardless of whether or not they chip in monetarily.
                This is perfectly correct.
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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                • #9
                  Re: how I imagine this server is run

                  I'll go out on a limb and say that payment doesn't matter when determining gameplay policy.
                  You see, thats a good thing, a really good thing, but can also be a bad thing *I believe*. I dont want to erk anyone here into an arguement, so Ill just try to explain myself as to why I feel this way as simple as I can. When money is invloved, ie a membership, if you dont consider (memberships opinions/decisions hold more weight) how your paying members feel about the server Over the rest of the regs, then you end up risking that memberships investment. I never said that paying members determine the policy, but they sure as heck should have a deciding vote.
                  USAR

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                  • #10
                    Re: how I imagine this server is run

                    One of the main reasons I frequent TG more than any other server is the maturity in listening skills everyone has. The fact that that an admin can have a debate with a regular, not even a paying member, and take into account his/her opinion is something I think everyone can agree is unique.

                    This server is run like a democracy, and I would like to see it continue that way. I think when Wyz has an opinion, people value it more heavily than a regular's (as it should be) such that he does weild more power (or just influence), just not directly.

                    Breaking it down into numbers I think is silly - like making a plugin where regulars get one vote, paying members 2, and admins 3. People take into account who is speaking along with thier opinion and it shows in the debates.

                    Overall I am extremely happy with how this server is run. In addition, banning the tactic mentioned above i think will not be the deciding factor in who will stay and play on TG.

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                    • #11
                      Re: how I imagine this server is run

                      Originally posted by squeak
                      You see, thats a good thing, a really good thing, but can also be a bad thing *I believe*. I dont want to erk anyone here into an arguement, so Ill just try to explain myself as to why I feel this way as simple as I can. When money is invloved, ie a membership, if you dont consider (memberships opinions/decisions hold more weight) how your paying members feel about the server Over the rest of the regs, then you end up risking that memberships investment. I never said that paying members determine the policy, but they sure as heck should have a deciding vote.
                      I disagree.

                      To get at the heart of the matter, you have to look at why people pay in the first place. I believe it's because they like what TG as a whole has to offer. To that end, I feel like it's the duty of the admins to keep the offering in the TG spirit, despite any pressure -- paid or otherwise -- to the contrary.

                      Those who pay LIKE what we do, and in general, wouldn't want to alter it drastically. Should it come to pass (for whatever reason) that some paying members want something outside the TG philosophy, unless Apophis comes down and says "Make it so", my inclination would be to wish those members good luck in their future endeavors.
                      [volun2]
                      NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
                      Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
                      <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
                      <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

                      Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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