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  • TF Blocking

    How I love rehashing old subjects. Can I get an official statement one way or another from the admins about TF blocking on this server?
    Rm 14:2 NIV
    One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.

  • #2
    Re: TF Blocking

    You can block passageways by design (I'm relocating and want the skulks to have to pass the electrified TF to get into the room), but you may not drop a structure with the intent of trapping an alien presently engaged in a melee (I don't want the fade to escape alive).
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    • #3
      Re: TF Blocking

      Is there anyway we can revise some of these rules? Id like to fully utilise every tactical strategy in this game, and sometimes structure blocking is one of them.
      USAR

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      • #4
        Re: TF Blocking

        I don't see any harm in discussing it again, if there's enough interest.

        However, I don't know of anything about structure blocking which has changed since we last discussed it. Our playerbase has changed a bit, though.
        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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        • #5
          Re: TF Blocking

          Here's the last thread where we all discussed this:

          http://tacticalgamer.com/showthread.php?t=8102

          This post is relevant, as it corrects misquotes Adj made about the devs as well as explains the difference between blocking and trapping:

          http://tacticalgamer.com/showpost.ph...8&postcount=53
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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          • #6
            Re: TF Blocking

            "If it ain't broke,dont fix it."

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            • #7
              Re: TF Blocking

              I'm sure squeak agrees with you, Batman.

              The debate lies in whether or not the rule is "broken," I'm sure.
              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: TF Blocking

                Hmm...

                Originally Posted by Zunni
                Currently there are 3 major types of Structure Blocking;

                Type 1: Blocking Vents: The NS team believes that blocking a ground level vent from the outside or building within a vent is exploitive and are investigating measures to remove it from the game.

                Type 2: Blocking Corridors, Hallways, Doors: This includes dropping marine structures in locations to block doorways. We consider this to be a valid strategy, and if the marine team has the resources to accomplish this, then that's their decision.

                Type 3: Blocking Enemies: This generally consists of dropping a structure on or directly beside a retreating foe and preventing his progress. We believe this to also be an exploit and are investigating measures to remove it from the game.
                So even the devs aren't very decisive about this. If the intent is to "trap" an alien, its an exploit, but dropping a structure to block before an alien is in the area isnt an exploit. So there still is no clear answer... because if you are dropping a building to block, you are dropping a building to block. Next thing you will see is that marines blocking aliens is an exploit.

                It is almost comparable to hive healing: Aliens can not stop a buliding from being dropped, but can destroy it when it is. Marines can not stop a hive from healing aliens but they can shoot it down. Kind of a stretch, but I think you get the idea.

                My view is this, if the com drops any structure, especialy in the field, the com is taking a risk and spending res. If the lifeform isnt prepared for the possibility of a chair/tf drop to block a path, then it isn't playing smart. It feels like the perfect counter to fades.
                USAR

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                • #9
                  Re: TF Blocking

                  It helps to realize that it's two completely different intents.

                  For the rest of this thread, let us discuss two very different and easily distinguishable acts:

                  1. blocking

                  2. trapping

                  We all understand what each is. Let us discuss each act by these names.

                  Zunni is saying that blocking is not an exploit, but trapping is, and it makes perfect sense to me (and, based on our last conversation on this topic, most here) why he (and, by representation, the dev team) feels that way.
                  Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                  Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: TF Blocking

                    I guess I am all for trapping.
                    USAR

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: TF Blocking

                      If you're reading this, and you're all for trapping, now's the time to speak up.
                      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: TF Blocking

                        My view on this probably doesnt matter much since I dont play NS at all, but I am going to give it any way.. so TS.

                        I have always been in favor of trapping an alien with a structure. IMO its a viable tactic that aliens need to be on alert for. As a commander, I do what I can to keep my marines alive on the battlefield. Along with that, I will do what I can to get the aliens killed. If I see an opportunity to trap an alien, especially an alien that can do some serious damage to my team, then by all means I am going to do what I can to get that threat removed. If that means trapping him, then so be it. If the alien is smart, he wouldnt allow me to do that to him. He will see what my marines are trying to do, and will avoid it at all costs.

                        Some\Most alien players are just impatient. The dont plan their attack and escape routes. I dont think aliens should have a "security blanket" of not being trapped. They should constantly think about their actions before they take them because of the off chance that a commander sees what is going on, and catches him.

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                        • #13
                          Re: TF Blocking

                          Ender, I'm sure your input is valued, as is everyone elses.

                          I'm down for blocking, but NOT trapping. I just dont think its fair.
                          birdie_in_Texas:ok..i feel stupid here..what is "NS"..? Wyzcrak:Natural Selection. Don't feel at a loss for not knowing the acronym. Feel at a loss for not having experienced the game.

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                          • #14
                            Re: TF Blocking

                            what if I was commander, and I built 2 ips and surrounded them and the comm chair with eletrified TFs, I've seen this done, it was in 2.0 though, and it was NASTY. I'll do a loose diagram
                            TF TF TF
                            TF IP CC IP TF
                            then they minded up the front, it was a mid game relocate, to double res on ns_bast.

                            I'm sure you'll probably dismiss this as being a waste of res, I just remember it being cheap. . .it was a shocking experience

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                            • #15
                              Re: TF Blocking

                              as far as blocking vents, I think of that as a map error and an exploit, not too different from building a phase gate through a wall into an inaccessible part of the map.

                              In general though, I think that dropping any structure without the intent to build it and use it in some way or another is kind of lame. Sure there is a res cost, but it's pretty cheap compared to the lifeform you just lamed to death. If it were to be allowed, I'd think a lot of balancing would need to be done.

                              If I were writing NS, I would have provided cvars that limit how many unbuilt structures of a certain type could be on the map at a time. For example, max 1 unbuilt CC. Sure, there are occasions where maybe base is getting owned and you are indecisive about the relocate, but you're probably boned in those situations anyway. I could see maybe two unbuilt tf's on the map though, so such a rule would probably not stop TF trapping.

                              Another way to balance might be to make certain unbuilt buildings unable to recycle. It only really makes sense to recycle unbuilt RT, TF, and PG. For example, I can't think of a reason (aside from blocking) that an unbuilt armory would be recycled. This might make the res cost of blocking a little higher.

                              At least one point on the other thread is no longer valid. Referring to OC blocking:

                              OMG! Noooooohhoohhhooooo! Comm dropped 3 CCs that are drawing all the OC fire and the JPs can shotty the hive
                              This has been removed. OC's now prioritize players, though structures can be dropped for cover, or to protect rt's (I don't know how long it takes an OC to knock down a CC, but it's probably long enough for the protected RT to pay back the cost of the CC).


                              Anyhow, I think any kind of blocking or trapping is pretty lame. It is very common on pubs but it'd be sad to see it on TG.

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