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  • I argue too much...

    Many of you have to have noticed that I argue with the commander, much more than anyone else on the server (that I'm aware of). After reading through HIJack's topic, I was hoping I might be able to get some feedback on just how bad and annoying it is. I realize that it gets annoying, and that it makes a few of you almost angry at me, and that problems are much more easily solved if there is open discussion about them, so that's what I'm hoping for. So, tell me just what you think of it.

    I'd also like to explain why I do it though,

    The biggest part of why I'm such a noisy marine is that I frequently see oppurtunies that I hope we can take advantage of. I'll see that the other team is focused on defending a hive from a seige, and that in doing so they are ignoring a key portion of the map. Or, I'll see that our team is too focused on something. Or, I notice that a temporary oppurtunity just appeared to do alot of damage to the other side. Or, I notice something that in a minute will be a huge threat to us. Or, etc. That's the biggest portion of why I talk so much while a marine, to point out options that seem to be ignored.

    The other reason, and something I think I've gotten much better about, is that if I don't think the commander really looked at my option, I'll keep going until I think he has given a good look, and nothing short of a good look. I think this is just from the stubborn portion of my personalities, but I just don't like my opinion to be carelessly cast aside when it could be very useful.

    Anyways, give me feedback please. Tell me what you think of my problem, and what you think I can do to minimize it.
    "Chance favors the prepared mind" -Sir Isaac Newton

  • #2
    Re: I argue too much...

    Well i dont think ive ever played with you... What's ur handel?
    Nice to meet ya.

    On topic, this is a touchy topic. Pointing out something that the commander might not have seen is needed, but if you think your annoying people, then its probaby 10X worse that what you can comprehend. So ya, try to keep it understandable and controlable.


    Its 6am here and i havent got sleep since 7am this morning, so if i didnt make any sence dont worrie, im not mentaly unstable or anything, just really tired. And this is the reason why.
    Oyee

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: I argue too much...

      Pointing out opportunities is generally a once-and-done action for the grunt on the ground. If I'm in the chair, and you (the plural you) don't make your case for [a phase gate / a TF / whatever] in the first 10 seconds and end up having me say no, then that's the end of it. NS simply doesn't allow the time to argue past that.
      [volun2]
      NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
      Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
      <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
      <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

      Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: I argue too much...

        I concur with Poker. Be brief, concise, and passionate about your point -- and then move on. I distinctly remember one game when you were under my command on ns_origin. You insisted that -- instead of going through the phase at base, as I directed -- you needed to stay home to clear the (and its builder) lame still forming directly outside our main.

        The hive survived, you died, and we were left with a spawn queue in our main and a lame outside it.

        What you FAILED to see, despite your uninformed confidence, is that I *regularly* eliminate such base-bordering lame with within seconds a single beacon, focused leadership, well-placed meds, and concentrated fire.

        You made a decision (to disobey the commander, after baggering me about the lame for -- too long) with incomplete information or, at the very least, less information than the comm. As life quickly teaches us, making decisions with incomplete information is undesirable at best.

        Had you followed your commander's orders with the rest of your team, the hive would have died, our base perimeter would have been saved, and you wouldn't have been so damn distracting to me.

        Question the comm. Point out flaws. Shine the spotlight on opportunities. But spend your energy bringing NEW information to the table, not repeating already-presented information like some kind of bar song you're hoping everyone else will start singing after you repeat the first verse three times.
        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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        • #5
          Re: I argue too much...

          A suggestion to the commander should be less than 10 words and very fast, wait for a response, then move on as you were told before you came up with your wonderful idea. The commander often has knowledge you lack, so follow what they say even if it sounds pretty stupid. I often tell people to kill themselves or simply run into a room full of waiting skulks because I know how that will help the team, even if the marine gets a little miffed while they wait in the spawn queue.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I argue too much...

            I agree with Adj, except to say:

            If at all possible without absolutely invalidating the opportunity you're trying to offer your commander, KEEP MOVING WHILE you present that opportunity (briefly, as Adj repeated).
            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: I argue too much...

              As everyone else is saying suggest more then demand, if a second ip is needed instead of saying.. "Were all in the freaking que how do you expect us to do anything without a second ip/arms lab/*insert some lame bs here*" say "We could probally use a second ip because its taking us a while to respawn". Instead of saying "OMG WHY GOTO SAT GO TO CARGO INSTEAD ITS SO MUCH EASIER/*Insert some lame reason here*" say "cargo is wide open and we can't get into sat com". In suggestion compared to demand voice tone is always the key except in wyz's case where he is monotone and sounds like I want to go cry everytime he says something :).
              (\_/)
              (O.x)
              (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: I argue too much...

                So what Wyz is pointing out here is that if he loses the game..IT'S YOUR FAULT..NOT HIM..YOU!!!!!

                disclaimer:
                This post is ment as a joke and in no way undermine the integrity of any heretofore post from any author.The author of this post takes no responsibility for the content of this message.



                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: I argue too much...

                  lol I'm so bad about screaming at my teammates from the ground.

                  So many smart players. So much for us each to learn. All we need is to allow each other to teach us.
                  Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                  Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: I argue too much...

                    I'd have to agree with everything said here. Sometimes i want a marine to die, just because i know a skulk is coming to base and i have no base defender, and he'll finish off my already hurt xxx. or etc.etc. sometimes i don't notice somethings that someone has, like phase gate at back of hive, or whatever. typically it isn't because i don't care, its more likly that i have other concernse are just blantly missed it. but the reason i missed it is also important, i KNOW i've missed important things because someone was spamming the mic too much for too long, and i know of quite a few other comms that have done the same. to be simple and keep with the topic. I'd have to agree, keep it short, concise, and keep up the pace(pressure) if xxx doesn't happen.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: I argue too much...

                      Think of it this way. If you do exactly what your commander says, it's pretty much completely his fault if your team loses. Let him run the team into the ground if that's what he wants to do. Arguing another strategy is just going to screw things up; maybe you have a good idea, but maybe you just don't understand what the comm is trying to do and are simply causing conflict. If you have a suggestion then make it once and let it go.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: I argue too much...

                        Originally posted by HiJacK
                        [...]except in wyz's case where he is monotone and sounds like I want to go cry everytime he says something. :)
                        I concur. :P

                        I try to never argue with the comm. I believe it's bad form and wears down the game. The most I do is come up with suggestions when comms ask "Well, what do you all think?" and ask for orders. For the most part, being a mindless grunt and following all the comm's orders (no matter what) is more helpful than any deviation in the instructed orders.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: I argue too much...

                          Wyz always sounds depressed and bored when he comms :( It also probably doesnt help that I pronounce his name phonetically by complete accident (I swear it LOOKS like wizz!)

                          Also, I just dont know doo doo about NS compared to most of the regulars.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: I argue too much...

                            Originally posted by Karkianman101
                            Wyz always sounds depressed and bored when he comms :( It also probably doesnt help that I pronounce his name phonetically by complete accident (I swear it LOOKS like wizz!)

                            Also, I just dont know doo doo about NS compared to most of the regulars.

                            Depressed and bored??? I've always kind of associated wyz with the calm and collected personality. I love not having a comm who will scream at me when I make a mistake, just move on and keep playing. From wyzcom's perspective, its just another RTS like starcraft and if the units die you find a counter strategy/attack. Wyz treats us like really intelligent chess pieces, but thats all he'll ever give us. He knows which people can do specific things the best and utilizes that strategic knowledge to his advantage. Such actions I believe lead to this "depressed and bored" sound you hear. He's just playing a modified Starcraft. You dont yell and shout at your pieces to get them to do something, you just say to do it. No need for excess enthusiasm, he puts all that energy into his game. I wish I could comm like that, I get too angsty and hyperactive in the chair...its the power...
                            -Zephyr
                            You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it.

                            You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer.

                            Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline.

                            Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise.

                            We are no clan.
                            We are not a single game.
                            We are mature, intelligent, and cooperative individuals.
                            We are TacticalGamer, a community above and beyond its name.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: I argue too much...

                              Let someone speak of me as a Commander.

                              Given how long I've been commanding, how many scenarios I've experienced, and how dynamic my reactions can be, I bet I could point to at least one game that supports just about any claim about my behavior, including some of which I'm not too proud.
                              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                              Comment

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