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Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

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  • Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

    As some of you know I have been trying to record TGNS 8v8 games on mineral. So far the map has mostly been balanced around 6v6 comp play in which it plays very well I am told. I think most of you who have played the map would agree that map balance in public play is not ideal. I have been trying to relay some of my experiences to the mapper but I decided it would be easier and more quality feedback if I recorded videos instead of using my memory.

    I have expressed my ideas about the map in detail to the mapper. If you want you can express yours on the official UWE thread for the map, here:

    ns2_mineral - Unknown Worlds Entertainment

    Essentially I feel the map is too focused around automation. You can read more on the UWE forums if you want more detail.

    If you don't post on the UWE forums you can post here and I can relay your feedback to the mapper. I will also be posting the videos I have recorded here as I go so you guys can discuss them if please.


    First video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSOnv4hjsIQ

  • #2
    Re: Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

    Second video. Not the best gameplay but I recorded it so why not post. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq5aQgJukFw

    Third video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MrXNkI7Kos

    From the 3/6 captains game. Some really odd gameplay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZflK...ature=youtu.be

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    • #3
      Re: Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

      New build out on the map. I am not sure how much of these changes is because of the videos I have been recording but the feedback in the videos has been discussed.

      Beta 2.50 change log:

      - Reduced lighting in most locations across the map, exceptions are Surface, Stasis, Security and Production.
      - Moved Connection(between Mineral Processing and Generators) to put the entry points on the west side of the respective rooms.
      - Moved Generators resource node to the east side of the room.
      - Widened doors slightly going in to Transfer from both sides.
      - Moved around and edited some crates in Storage to help Aliens push in to the room if occupied by Marines.
      - Removed Automation resource node.
      - Destroyed Automation tech point.
      - Added to ventilation entrances to Automation, they connect to the existing ventilation between Pump Control and Generators. Should help Aliens push past Marines in Loading Bay and Generators.

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      • #4
        Re: Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

        Poor tech point. Mapper "removed" Automation's res node, but he DESTROYED the tech point.
        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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        • #5
          Re: Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

          No res node or TP in automation will certainly remove many of it strengths. I really want to try this out.

          By destroyed he means he covered the techpoint with rocks so it looks destroyed.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

            Awesome. LOL.
            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

              This picture shows some upcoming changes in mineral. They look good.

              https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/..._changes01.jpg

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

                its a good map and has alot of potential, i think the overall size of the map needs to be scaled down to about 90% of what it currently is
                long open corridors and large open rooms, and i think the doorways are just too wide, you can fit 3 exo's side by side through most of the doorways
                There can be no greater pride than the egotism to quote yourself in an internet forum signature -Geriatric

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

                  I gave a lot of feedback tonight in game, but generally I just don't like the feel of the map.

                  Perhaps it's just that in what feels like 90% of the games I've played on it I've been on the losing team and not just by a little, but a total stomp. Size may be similar to Jambi, which I do like, but the layout of the paths is completely different. In Jambi you have one route through the center and one route through the outside to the side tech points. You can argue that Mineral has the same, though without a central tech point or node itself; however, the paths from the center really rejoin the outer path well before anything else is reached. Every time we've played the new build without automation as a tech point, marines are forced to go for production, the other tech points are just too far away. Path wise though that gives marines only one way to reinforce until gates are available (without adding 30-60 seconds to a route), and because of the large size pressure seems to fail, or when present leaves you wide open at home due to the travel times. I'm not sure why Jambi doesn't feel that way too but I think it's largely due to the extra freedom of having 4 entrance/exits from the generator tp, 3 of which split into two different paths immediately outside giving what feels like 7 routes and much more freedom to move about the map whereas Mineral currently feels like a slog to get anywhere when not right by a gate. Maybe some vents should be more marine friendly to open up other possible ways to get around? Do aliens even use the vents very often? It seems like most of the time they don't in the games I've played. Anyway, don't know what the fixes to these complaints would be; but, hopefully the feedback is helpful anyway.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

                    I have passed your feedback onto the mapper. He has certainly appreciated a lot of the feedback I have given him from TGNS.

                    On vents specifically, kronos, I use vents all the time. There are so many vents to get around behind marines. I like to abuse these as lerks which usually does me well, although not tonight. I would say you never seeing them used may be a learn the map problem. I don't know the map as well as I do others but I use vents all the time.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

                      I have some return feedback from both of your feedback, not entirely from the mapper.

                      Why do marines need a second techpoint? Pub play I guess. When there was a TP in Automation, marines were always going for a second base or relocation, which was bad.
                      Also, bare in mind that the layout has changed, and the new update in coming very soon (probably on monday). MasterG is just waiting for the w6 nsl matches to be over before releasing the new version. The changes were discussed and built thanks to the help of comp players and routing should be more intuitive.
                      You'll now access Control through Automation only. Waiting has now a double door entrance into Automation, similar to Repair entrances into Hub. Stations is fully detailed, the corridor between Stations and Min Pro as well.

                      Maybe some vents should be more marine friendly to open up other possible ways to get around
                      It's already the case on the marines natural expansion territory. And it's gonna stay this way, having vents in which marines can travel through in the upper side of the map were considered as issues by many players pub and comp, so this was changed. You can check the Secu vent, use the Lounge/Prod one and the Transfer/East Path if you wanna be sneaky, pinch, trap, ambush, or be faster (east path).

                      And as always, the map isn't too big, it used to be, but I couldn't disagree more with this statement. If the map was smaller, marines timings would be shorter and we would end up again in marines high pressure and aliens being on the defensive all the time, having to rely REALLY heavily on the lerks
                      Also, mineral is about to change to look different.
                      https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...340_layout.jpg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

                        Thanks for sharing the feedback and the feedback on the feedback.

                        I do like the new changes through the middle to make it more beneficial to secure Automation even without a node/tech point there.

                        I'm sure comp players have no difficulties with the lanes and the sizing. In the couple of rounds we played there tonight aliens clearly had the upper hand even if the map isn't too big since smaller would give an advantage to marines with our current pub games the marine naturals are very easy for skulks to hit and only rarely did marines make it past those. One push got up to Drill Site and Pump and were killed off, another got up to Generator and was killed off, a third got up to Storage and got the RT there, but in each of those examples the marines were not able to reinforce (though may be in part due to unfamiliarity and not playing 'correctly') so ended up back at their naturals rebuilding them again. I'd agree with Automation as a tech point it was very strong, probably too much so, but seems like aliens have the advantage on the map currently at least during pub games that I've played/spectated and not sure how to balance that out even when the marine commander knew the map his marines on the ground weren't able to respond in a timely fashion.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

                          Originally posted by Kronos View Post
                          Thanks for sharing the feedback and the feedback on the feedback.

                          I do like the new changes through the middle to make it more beneficial to secure Automation even without a node/tech point there.

                          I'm sure comp players have no difficulties with the lanes and the sizing. In the couple of rounds we played there tonight aliens clearly had the upper hand even if the map isn't too big since smaller would give an advantage to marines with our current pub games the marine naturals are very easy for skulks to hit and only rarely did marines make it past those. One push got up to Drill Site and Pump and were killed off, another got up to Generator and was killed off, a third got up to Storage and got the RT there, but in each of those examples the marines were not able to reinforce (though may be in part due to unfamiliarity and not playing 'correctly') so ended up back at their naturals rebuilding them again. I'd agree with Automation as a tech point it was very strong, probably too much so, but seems like aliens have the advantage on the map currently at least during pub games that I've played/spectated and not sure how to balance that out even when the marine commander knew the map his marines on the ground weren't able to respond in a timely fashion.
                          Historically mineral has been pretty heavily marine biased. In videos I have posted earlier in this thread marines were winning a lot.. This has improved as the map has evolved. TGNS on the other hand usually has some high alien win rates. Our particular group of players is better at aliens than at marines. So now that map balance has improved I do not find it surprising that aliens are favored now. Every official map has a global balance of about 55% alien win rates too. So if on tgns, aliens are winning more often, that is to be expected. It is really hard to tell if it is too much because too.

                          I personally think security and lockers are too alien sided for marine naturals, and a remnant of trying to balance the map away from marines. Comp players tell me that lockers is very marine sided though because it has such long lines of site.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

                            So MasterG has enjoyed the feedback I have provided so much so, that he wants to come spectate some tgns games on mineral. I think this would be great, for him, and he could take questions directly instead of me trying to pass things on. I initially thought a friday night captains game would be the best time, but that does not work with his schedule. The best time for him would be Tuesday's or Thursdays around 8-9pm. Do you guys think we could get a captains quality round going just for MasterG?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Nordics ns2_mineral feedback thread

                              [MENTION=93996]james888[/MENTION] You say 8 to 9 is best. Which time zone?

                              I'd like to help facilitate this, even if I have to delegate due to scheduling conflicts.
                              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                              Comment

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