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  • ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

    Please leave any feedback in this thread.

    Please do not PM me in these forums or on Steam with any feedback.

    The only medium that I will accept and consider feedback on is in THIS thread and during playtesting sessions.

    Announcement thread here: http://www.tacticalgamer.com/threads..._tgns_arclight

    Mom
    Last edited by YerMom; 08-15-2015, 11:47 AM.
    Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
    Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

    You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
    Forever Perplexed

  • #2
    Re: ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

    Regarding your limitations mentioned in the announcement thread...

    Originally posted by YerMom View Post
    I am limited in what I can do in Spark for a map such as this. I have to get pretty creative to make things happen in this map. There just isn't support for anything really outside of regular ns2 maps, so anything I do in this capacity has to be sort of a workaround.

    That said, I cannot stop ARCs from passing through teleporters like I can Marines/Aliens. Wyz and I discussed this when I realized it (in an "oh ****" moment). Wyz said he is comfortable sending 10 ARCs to a spot where they cannot be defended. If Aliens cannot destroy 10 undefended ARCs before it clears a room full of hives, then that is a fault of the Aliens, not bad design in the map. Please do keep in mind that this is possible, and respond to threats such as this in kind.
    I have quite a bit of experience building "siege" maps for ns2, so I am quite familiar with many of the limitations and pathing problems. However I built my siege maps using ExtraEntitiesMod by JimWest. This mod provided a lot of crucial entities that are missing in default NS2 and were necessary to tweak the gameplay, locking players out of certain parts of the map, and things like that. I never had a problem with stopping ARCs from passing through teleporters. Quite the opposite. ARCs never could pass through teleporters. These were ExtraEntitiesMod teleporters, as NS2 didn't have its own teleporter entities back then. So perhaps the solution to your ARC + teleporter problem lies in the old ExtraEntitiesMod code. https://github.com/JimWest/ExtraEnti...traEntitiesMod

    I don't know if you ran into this issue too, but I had a heck of a time with the "nav mesh". You can't build on or order NPC units to go to any place that doesn't have nav mesh, and nav mesh only branches out from tech points. This unfortunately crippled my map designs and forced me to always create a ground path to each and every room from at least one tech point. I could prevent players from using this ground path by a variety of means, but this ground path could still be exploited by a marine commander at any time, and used to send arcs into range of the hives before the intended time. Is this what you were referring to, when you mention that you can't stop ARCs from passing through teleporters?

    I did eventually find a partial solution to this. I found that if I disconnected a room from the rest of the map, and put a tech point under its floor, nav mesh would be generated inside that room and it wouldn't link to the other rooms so marines couldn't build arcs and roll them in early. But marines could still build in it as long as they could get a player inside (via teleporter as intended later in the game), and aliens could build there too as long as they could get infestation inside somehow (contamination, cysts in an adjacent room). I had to prevent the tech point from being usable by making the ground above the tech point unbuildable, but this was an effective method for medium to large sized rooms. Since then, someone built a custom entity that generates nav mesh independently of tech points, and I believe you can find it in this mod, if you are interested: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=333251932

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

      1: Thanks for the mod idea. That may be an idea. How would I implement that on the server? Would TGNS have to be running that mod?

      2: Yes, I think. I haven't actually tested this now that I think of it, but I'm pretty confident that the teleport_trigger entity won't react to ARCs or MACs at all. So while a Marine is teleported backwards until they "open" the teleporter, ARCs will just roll right through. But, given the way the map is designed, if the Commander manages to get enough ARCs past the entire Alien team without losing them all and then subsequently has enough time (Aliens simply refuse to respond) to ARC out all 4/5 of the Alien hives, then, as said before, they deserve to lose. Fact is that it's going to take a lot to bring down all those hives with no Marines to defend the ARCs. I think I'm okay with it. Especially in the sense that there is a side game going on. Maybe those ARCs the Aliens ignored hitting the hive is the only reason Marines manage to bring down the first teleporter.

      3: Based on the design, navmesh isn't a problem in any way other than the ARCs thru the teleporters bit. Anything beyond that is working as intended with no problems. The map is live on the workshop. If you subscribe it and load it up, I'm sure you'll see what I'm referring. That said, be aware that without Wyz's changes to the TGNS mod, the map is not playable currently. You can see the geo and the layout and the idea behind it, but cannot actually play it successfully without mods from Wyz that I don't think he has done yet.

      Thanks for your feedback. Please let me know about my questions in section 1 here. I'd be interested in the mod if it weren't too intrusive on Wyz. If it's something that has to be mounted on TGNS, I'm not very interested in throwing a mod on the server just for this one map when we can easily manipulate some simple code on the TGNS mod and have a solution that way.

      Mom
      Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
      Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

      You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
      Forever Perplexed

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

        Since maps are mods, you can include a lua folder and lua scripts to modify game behavior. The custom behavior doesn't actually have to be part of the TGNS mod.

        ExtraEntitiesMod hasn't been updated in 2 years and is not something you would want to run unmodified due to all the bugs in it. The Siege Entities mod I linked earlier is a fork of ExtraEntitiesMod that has a few bugfixes but by now new bugs may have crept in. Either way, you would probably want to pull bits and pieces out and package them directly with the map, if you chose to use any of the additional entities.

        I'll have to see this map in action before I can really make any better suggestions.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

          Marines with jetpacks get stuck after teleportation when jumping down the hole in alien base.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

            This is a non-concern as the vent that allows Marines to access the hive will be removed in next release.

            It may be an issue as Onos or Fades are large entities like Marines. I'd be more concerned about Alien lifeforms getting stuck after teleporting thru that hole.

            On a side note, if this is the only problem that 4 guys found in an hour (maybe) of playing in the map... then I'm doing damn good so far.

            Good thing no one has looked at console yet, I guess. ;)

            Mom
            Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
            Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

            You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
            Forever Perplexed

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

              Brian ... how do I find you on Steam? There are like 8 billion Brians.

              Mom
              Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
              Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

              You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
              Forever Perplexed

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

                http://steamcommunity.com/id/brianp/

                To be fair, we aren't 100% sure if or how it works normally; we were just screwing around and used MACs to build phase gates to get out of marine start.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

                  [MENTION=38]Wyzcrak[/MENTION] - was the play tonight with or without TGNS mod support?
                  [MENTION=97241]Brian_NS2[/MENTION] - I added you to friends on Steam.

                  Mom
                  Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                  Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                  You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                  Forever Perplexed

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

                    There was no play tonight. Just looking around. I've yet written no code.
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

                      [MENTION=97241]Brian_NS2[/MENTION] - So I've never worked with Spark while using a mod. How do I incorporate these entities in to my map? There are no instructions for the Siege mod at all.

                      Mom
                      Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                      Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                      You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                      Forever Perplexed

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

                        That's fine, Wyz. Just wondering the specifics. You may not need to if I can figure this out. I see what it can do, and I like it. We will see.

                        Mom
                        Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                        Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                        You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                        Forever Perplexed

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

                          Will someone please post Steam Workshop URLs for each of the mods I'd want to run to evaluate Siege on my DEV server? I see Brian's links above to the extra entities and siege entities mods, but mustn't I also have some sort of base "siege mode" mod?
                          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

                            Originally posted by YerMom View Post
                            [MENTION=97241]Brian_NS2[/MENTION] - So I've never worked with Spark while using a mod. How do I incorporate these entities in to my map? There are no instructions for the Siege mod at all.

                            Mom
                            Subscribe to the Siege Entities mod: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=333251932
                            Then start NS2 and wait for the mod to download (check the Mod List for download status)
                            You'll find it in %AppData%\Natural Selection 2\Workshop



                            Copy the editor_setup.xml file into your own map mod's root directory. Always launch the map editor through the Spark Launcher and have your mod selected, because that way it will load your editor_setup.xml and the custom entities will be available. If you load your map without using the launcher, or if your currently selected mod (in the launcher) does not have this editor_setup.xml file, then any custom entities will be removed from the map. It is easy to do this by accident, so keep backups of your map just in case.

                            Anyway, details of each of the provided entities can be found here: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/disc...traentitiesmod

                            Ask me if there are any problems or questions. Be sure to have the Siege Entities mod enabled in ns2 when you load your map for testing, as it provides all the entity behavior scripts.






                            Originally posted by Wyzcrak View Post
                            Will someone please post Steam Workshop URLs for each of the mods I'd want to run to evaluate Siege on my DEV server? I see Brian's links above to the extra entities and siege entities mods, but mustn't I also have some sort of base "siege mode" mod?
                            The base "siege mode" mod is Siege Entities. Each map implements some of these custom entities to create locked doors and timers which facilitate the siege gameplay. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=333251932

                            There is another, more actively developed siege mod somewhere that is used on the popular siege server "ns2siege.com - Avoca's Loony Town [GA]" but last I checked it changes gameplay mechanics ... a lot ... and I don't think we want that right now.

                            As for maps, if you want to try some (could give [MENTION=56359]YerMom[/MENTION] some ideas!), I will list the ones I built.

                            100% custom maps:
                            ns2_hivesiege: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=118434990
                            ns2_domesiege: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=152996625
                            ns2_bunkersiege: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=313803615

                            NS1 siege map conversions:
                            ns_siege007: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=352965356
                            ns_birdsiege: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=320144456

                            NS2 maps I modified to add siege gameplay elements:
                            ns2_tramsiege: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=217769711
                            ns2_veilsiege: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=216703050
                            ns2_dockingsiege: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=217407488

                            A few other guys have built siege maps, but I can't guarantee they will run as intended without the more actively developed siege mod.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: ns2_tgns_arclight feedback

                              ty!

                              Originally posted by Brian_NS2 View Post
                              FYI: This mod is misnamed in the Workshop as ns2_veil_siege, as ns2_veilsiege (no underscore beteween "veil" and "siege") is the name of the map delivered via the mod.
                              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                              Comment

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