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  • ns2_tgns_eclipse02

    [MENTION=56359]YerMom[/MENTION] has made small edit(s) to Eclipse with hopes of making it more palatable. I've added it to the server and included it in map votes.

    I'll let him explain what's different and what, if any, plans he has for its future.

    I do know that the Keyhole extractor is moved to Horseshoe, which has nostalgic (if not also balance?) appeal for me. Mom, what else? Anything?

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil.../?id=537846655
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

  • #2
    Re: ns2_eclipse02

    The node at Triad is more defensible for Marines (I removed the tall pillar between the top platform and the node; it is now like the old Eclipse).

    Keyhole has been moved to Horseshoe with it's own room. I will detail said room if it proves to be more balanced.

    I have added a node to the room north of Power Sub. Apparently I removed the name from that room. I will replace it when I can.

    Mom
    Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
    Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

    You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
    Forever Perplexed

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: ns2_eclipse02

      I've played more games on this map now.

      I'm officially a fan. Every game has been a blast.
      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: ns2_eclipse02

        There is still a little cleanup that needs to be done. Since it has worked out so well, I'll release a final in a week or two. It will be officially ns2_tgns as there are lots of other versions of eclipse floating around.

        Mom
        Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
        Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

        You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
        Forever Perplexed

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: ns2_eclipse02

          ns2_eclipse02 is now ns2_tgns_eclipse02

          I have made significant changes to the Horseshoe area of this map.

          -significantly dimmed the lighting in Horseshoe
          -added an ambush point for the long hallway at Horseshoe
          -detailed the node at Horseshoe
          -removed the stuck spot in Triad
          -replaced the T-Junction map name

          I made most of these changes after playing this afternoon and seeing a significant imbalance in this area towards Marines. These changes were made in an attempt to balance the area more. This may or may not be successful.

          [MENTION=38]Wyzcrak[/MENTION] - can we move this thread to the map dev section?

          Mom
          Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
          Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

          You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
          Forever Perplexed

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: ns2_tgns_eclipse02

            The map rests too much on T-junction. If marines control Tjunct, which is essentially a natural, they have

            1. a double node situation. With tjunct you gain horseshoe.
            2. Forward space to arc sloop. can you arc gen mon from the hallway at the end of access alpha? i dont know if that reaches. And then again a quick walk to arc triad from the hallway behind it.
            3. An easy walk to psub junct where you can arc/assault compcore. which is, literally, an up hill fight for aliens.

            Alternatively, if Aliens happen to control the room, it does not give the some power projection that it does for marines.

            Tjunction is already crucial enough. i don't think it needs a res node. To me if feels like placing the res node there is just the carrot to lead everyone to see it's importance. Aliens have a hell of a time assaulting Tjunct as the entrance from psubjunct is small and at the far end. lots of long hallways. From keyhole it's difficult as well because, again, you're down a hallway.

            Tjunction essentially allows one team to contain 2 hive rooms and their naturals.

            T junction allows marines to project their power and map positioning on more of the map than it should. For it to stay this way I think there needs to be another access to the room or more distance from everything else.


            Additionally, removing the tower thing in triad yes makes it easier for marines to defend but increasingly more difficult for aliens to hold, given that it is a natural.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: ns2_tgns_eclipse02

              The changes you're talking about are the only reason we even consider playing Eclipse today.

              I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying give me an alternative that will make it as popular as it has become in the last couple weeks.

              Mom
              Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
              Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

              You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
              Forever Perplexed

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: ns2_tgns_eclipse02

                ARCs reach Gen Mon from above, yes.

                Great comments, jack.

                I like the comments about T-Junction not needing a node, but I *really* like that node, so I won't start there with recommendations.

                I think, given Horseshoe and T-Junction, Marines can do without Traid's 02-version accommodations.
                [MENTION=56359]YerMom[/MENTION], maybe revert Triad's design to stock? And see how it plays with only Horseshoe and T-Junction modified (keeping the node in T-Junction, for now)?
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: ns2_tgns_eclipse02

                  Your stated primary motivation in changing the map is making it more likely that Marines will hold nodes, so that gameplay can be more balanced. Yay! Love it.

                  jack is saying that Marines maybe have too easy a time holding nearby nodes at the moment, and that gameplay might be neglecting some areas of the map. You're right that we need more voices.

                  My Triad idea makes it a bit harder for Marines to hold one node, moves the gameplay a little bit away from T-Junction, and gives new guests less to learn (from stock).

                  Changing start locations scares me, but I'd be down for trying it.
                  Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                  Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: ns2_tgns_eclipse02

                    Originally posted by jack^ View Post
                    if Aliens happen to control [T-Junction], it does not give the some power projection that it does for marines.
                    Asymmetry accepted, this is a powerful point. If I get a robo in this room, I'm likely to deny with ARCs (in order of likelihood):

                    ) South Loop Harvester

                    ) Generator Monitors Harvester

                    ) Maintenance Harvester

                    ) Triad Harvester

                    None is guaranteed, but ALL with ARCs. That's potentially 66% of an otherwise-competent Alien team's 6-node economy.
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: ns2_tgns_eclipse02

                      Please understand that I only changed like 3 things in this map. I deleted an object in Triad, I added a single node to Tjunc, and I built a tiny room in Horseshoe.

                      Without adding more to the map, which at this time feels like a bad idea, I can't see a way to make the changes you want without going back towards stock. Stock eclipse bled out months ago.

                      Barring any push back here over the next day or so, I'm going to remove the ability to spawn at Marine Start and Comp at all. Spawns will only rotate randomly between Eclipse and Maintenance (for now).

                      My reasoning for this is that the map is wider than it is taller, so it should prove to balance the middle more because both teams will have longer distances to travel. This will shift the pivotal points of the map a bit, making Tjunc powerful for Eclipse spawners, and like Gen Mon or Access Alpha powerful for Maint spawners. It creates an overlap, and should prove to add balance to the equation.

                      I'll consider changes to Triad as well.

                      Let's keep pushing to vote the map in. I'll take pains to gather as much internal info as I can about the map balance during gameplay and go from there. Don't hesitate to bring more voices in on this. If you guys get 5 or so people with you that want your specific changes, I'll move forward with them faster.

                      Mom
                      Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                      Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                      You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                      Forever Perplexed

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: ns2_tgns_eclipse02

                        If you used crates/etc to prevent the Generator Monitors ARC from the North and moved the Maintenence harvester east to prevent the Maintenance ARC from the West, it might make T-Junction a bit less powerful for Marines.
                        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: ns2_tgns_eclipse02

                          Originally posted by YerMom View Post
                          balance the middle more because both teams will have longer distances to travel
                          To whatever degree that's true (I'm no expert), it inversely is then /less/ balanced once one of those teams doesn't have to travel as far (tunnel/gate). To jack's point, does increasing the unassisted distance to that location make the room even /more/ important?

                          Yay for map design being hard! :)
                          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: ns2_tgns_eclipse02

                            http://i.imgur.com/ZGS3aKd.png

                            Let's look for a second.

                            Judge the distance Marines have to travel from M Start to Access, Tjunc, and Horseshoe.

                            Now imagine that, rather than Marines starting at M Start, they started at Eclipse. Judge the same distance.

                            You can see that the pivotal point (the point where Marines can safely control the middle of the map, without major risk) is no longer Tjunc. It is more south Access or that hall connecting Power Sub and TJunc on the left. Aliens spawning at Maint have plenty of time to push TJunc (much like Hub on tram) and stop them from taking it.

                            Reverse the spawns. Marines spawn Maint, they have Horse and South as naturals. At this point, it's going to be hard for them to hold those nodes, let alone focus on TJunc. Is it still possible? Yes. But it is no longer a hop skip and a jump from MStart.

                            Now, both teams can compete for either north or south TP, using the middle as an avenue for aggression rather than a pivotal point of control. It looks MUCH more like Tram if I enforce these spawns than it does with MStart and Comp being most common spawns.

                            Mom
                            Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                            Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                            You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                            Forever Perplexed

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: ns2_tgns_eclipse02

                              I agree, and did not see, the ARC problem. I'll address it. But I'm still going to go forward with spawn changes. It's either change spawns or remove Access Alpha node.

                              Marines have 3 naturals when spawning at MStart. No other spawn points have 3 naturals.

                              Mom
                              Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                              Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                              You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                              Forever Perplexed

                              Comment

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