Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Marine Commanding Q's

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Marine Commanding Q's

    I've recently commanded my first few games (in NS2, I commanded in NS1 occasionally) and have some questions. My build order has been to drop Arms Lab and Armory right away and then take the 2 natural nodes and the 1 node farthest from Alien start. Then I grab W1, A1 if the res stays up, then drop an Obs, get Phase Gates. My gate plan is generally to set up in a central room but not always the middle of the map. On Tram I'll use Hub, but on Veil I like System Waypointing (no matter the Alien start). Once the phase is up, I start on W2 and SG. At some point Armory and Obs in the phase location. Usually after this the marines can take more of the map and dry up Alien res, and eventually we arc or just walk into their base.

    So far I'm 6-1 doing this exact strategy, which seems insane. The loss was on Docking (marines in cafe, aliens in generator), and we tried for a phase in courtyard multiple times but couldn't keep enough people alive for it to work.

    Questions:

    Most of the time Arms + Armory works well in the beginning, but if the aliens bite down more than 1 tower early on it gets very slow in terms of when to get W1, A1. So when that happens I have to decide to skip A1 for now and get obs earlier. If I go without the armory early on then I can get W1 A1 for sure but the obs is delayed. I guess in both cases you need all of these so maybe there is no decision here.

    Is there an intuitive suggestion for armor vs. weapons depending on the team? I had a team last night that could not shoot very well, so I went to W3 before A1 thinking it would help them kill things. But of course getting 2 bitten all game is hard as well. I personally as a marine have trouble killing skulks after the first bite, so whether it is 2 bites or 3 does not matter very much to me. In general I think people seem to go with upgrades in lock step.

    The time to recoup a res tower is a little complicated in NS2 since you have to account somewhat for PRes. If a PRes is equally valuable as a TRes, then each tick is (10% * # of players) + 1 = total res, which would mean you only need a res tower up for 36s to get value from it with
    7 marines. Basically, it seems like this means you should almost always drop resource towers, even ones you can't really support, since it takes 45s for a skulk to bite them down. That doesn't account for the benefit from aliens being delayed getting a harvester either. It also represents something of a transfer from TRes to Pres. So should you always drop nodes when a marine is in the room and you have a little money?

  • #2
    Re: Marine Commanding Q's

    There are much much better commanders than I on these forums, so I'll let them answer these questions... also I'm curious to see what they say!

    Just noticed one error of yours: it actually takes 23 seconds for one skulk to bite down a fully built res tower, not 46. That's assuming it's just one skulk though. ;)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Marine Commanding Q's

      You want to be careful about dropping res nodes in forward locations. A marine building a node is vulnerable, and if he dies before the node is built/powered then you don't get anything out of it. As a marine commander you always want to know where the alien team is. It's when you don't know where they are and start making risky assumptions, or just not paying attention to the alien team's movements, that you can get into trouble. The number one worst thing to happen as marine comm is for the aliens to surprise you.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Marine Commanding Q's

        Most of the time Arms + Armory works well in the beginning, but if the aliens bite down more than 1 tower early on it gets very slow in terms of when to get W1, A1. So when that happens I have to decide to skip A1 for now and get obs earlier. If I go without the armory early on then I can get W1 A1 for sure but the obs is delayed. I guess in both cases you need all of these so maybe there is no decision here.
        If you are planning on getting early upgrades, don't drop an armory and get the upgrade right away. What's the point of spending money on a building that isn't going to give you any return right away? arms lab + opening upgrade or armory + Obs are the two starting builds i mostly see.

        Is there an intuitive suggestion for armor vs. weapons depending on the team? I had a team last night that could not shoot very well, so I went to W3 before A1 thinking it would help them kill things. But of course getting 2 bitten all game is hard as well. I personally as a marine have trouble killing skulks after the first bite, so whether it is 2 bites or 3 does not matter very much to me. In general I think people seem to go with upgrades in lock step.
        This is important because you can't just have one build that will take you through the game, its always changing and you need to predict/react and change your gameplay to respond. I think it depends on your team and the team your playing, the more you know about the players the better you can predict what could happen and how to combat it. that being said, i really like A1 right away because it gives the marines an advantage at the beginning of the game when you need it.

        The time to recoup a res tower is a little complicated in NS2 since you have to account somewhat for PRes. If a PRes is equally valuable as a TRes, then each tick is (10% * # of players) + 1 = total res, which would mean you only need a res tower up for 36s to get value from it with
        7 marines. Basically, it seems like this means you should almost always drop resource towers, even ones you can't really support, since it takes 45s for a skulk to bite them down. That doesn't account for the benefit from aliens being delayed getting a harvester either. It also represents something of a transfer from TRes to Pres. So should you always drop nodes when a marine is in the room and you have a little money?
        I think this a playstyle really, sometimes I think its worth it but if i'm already strapped for cash, i'd rather save to get shotguns/upgrades, etc

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Marine Commanding Q's

          How I usually comm:

          1) Is this map tram, veil, refinery, or summit? Upgrades first. Now, do I have a lot of good shooters on the team? If yes, fast upgrade W1. Not so much? A1 first, and encourage welder use and the buddy system. Delay armory until its needed. Drop the 2 natural expansion nodes.

          2) Is this map mineshaft, biodome, eclipse, or docking? Drop obs and fast upgrade phase tech. Drop armory and research mines, aim to have it finished by the time phase tech is done. Drop the 2 natural expansion nodes. Ask for mines on the first gate that goes up, and to spread them out on the gate.

          3) If people are getting slaughtered, work in a second IP as soon as you're able. Tell them to use the buddy system and welders. Assign individual players to each other if needed, try to announce this while they're both dead in the spawn queue or in close proximity to each other.

          - Keep a close eye on the clock in every game you comm. Always have shotguns finished by 6 minutes as that's when fades will start to appear. Remind your team to get a few shotguns on the field to anticipate battling the fade before it appears, and to stop saving for exos. If shotguns are starting to get a bit thinned out on the scoreboard, remind them again to stop saving for exos and spend their res again by name if needed, preferably on more shotguns, welders, and mines.

          - Aim to have a proto dropped and JPs researching by 10 minutes if possible. If you're still at A2, W2 that's fine just go for JPs and get W3 later. Onos will start appearing on the field, and you will start losing ground the longer you're without jetpacks. Once JPs are up, encourage everybody to stop saving for exos, and buy a JP if they can. Especially catch people in the spawn queue by name to buy a JP unless they have acceptable plans for their res. Assign dead people in the spawn queue by name to recap nodes, they will be bored waiting and love you for doing it. Keep doing that the whole game.

          Don't be afraid to give people clear, direct orders by name. They have to follow those direct orders on our server.
          Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
          Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Marine Commanding Q's

            Originally posted by aeroripper View Post
            How I usually comm:

            1) Is this map tram, veil, refinery, or summit? Upgrades first. Now, do I have a lot of good shooters on the team? If yes, fast upgrade W1. Not so much? A1 first, and encourage welder use and the buddy system. Delay armory until its needed. Drop the 2 natural expansion nodes.

            2) Is this map mineshaft, biodome, eclipse, or docking? Drop obs and fast upgrade phase tech. Drop armory and research mines, aim to have it finished by the time phase tech is done. Drop the 2 natural expansion nodes. Ask for mines on the first gate that goes up, and to spread them out on the gate.

            3) If people are getting slaughtered, work in a second IP as soon as you're able. Tell them to use the buddy system and welders. Assign individual players to each other if needed, try to announce this while they're both dead in the spawn queue or in close proximity to each other.

            - Keep a close eye on the clock in every game you comm. Always have shotguns finished by 6 minutes as that's when fades will start to appear. Remind your team to get a few shotguns on the field to anticipate battling the fade before it appears, and to stop saving for exos. If shotguns are starting to get a bit thinned out on the scoreboard, remind them again to stop saving for exos and spend their res again by name if needed, preferably on more shotguns, welders, and mines.

            - Aim to have a proto dropped and JPs researching by 10 minutes if possible. If you're still at A2, W2 that's fine just go for JPs and get W3 later. Onos will start appearing on the field, and you will start losing ground the longer you're without jetpacks. Once JPs are up, encourage everybody to stop saving for exos, and buy a JP if they can. Especially catch people in the spawn queue by name to buy a JP unless they have acceptable plans for their res. Assign dead people in the spawn queue by name to recap nodes, they will be bored waiting and love you for doing it. Keep doing that the whole game.

            Don't be afraid to give people clear, direct orders by name. They have to follow those direct orders on our server.

            Thanks for all of the ideas here, very useful.

            Is there any way to get player names on the minimap?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Marine Commanding Q's

              Originally posted by aeroripper View Post
              Don't be afraid to give people clear, direct orders by name. They have to follow those direct orders on our server.
              This. I usually play support, then passive-aggressive assert what's needed. Recently, however, I've taken to calling by name, or at least location, and it's working.

              Instead of "Repair is under attack, need response", I use "Logistics to Repair" or "Spawners go to repair".

              Works effectively. Beyond that, Aero's giving great advice.

              Always stay aggressive. It's ALWAYS worth attacking the next room. Three marines holding Repair could be pushing Ore while two in logistics secure the rear.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Marine Commanding Q's

                All good advice, just a word of encouragement though, commanding can be tough even in the best of situations, keep trying to improve!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Marine Commanding Q's

                  Can't say enough about giving explicit commands to named targets (player or room/area). Not always necessary, but I get annoyed by commanders who 1) refuse to do it and 2) whine when they're not effective leaders.

                  If one of your directs is showing a /pattern/ of ignoring direct, by-player-name orders, notify a Guardian or Admin (don't tell them what to do). If you're a Guardian in this scenario, consult/warn/remove the offender like you would for any other offense.
                  Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                  Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                  Comment

                  Connect

                  Collapse

                  TeamSpeak 3 Server

                  Collapse

                  Advertisement

                  Collapse

                  Twitter Feed

                  Collapse

                  Working...
                  X