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  • Mines: Chariot Trap

    A few of you that were on my team during the TG tournement may remember this, but I'm sure most of you didn't know what I was referencing in my other post when I asked for counters to a "Chariot Trap". So here's the brief of it:

    The concept behind a chariot trap is to use a pack of mines to guide attackers into a kill zone. The placement is obvious, the implications a little more subtle.

    Here's the concept for the placement:

    ____________________________________
    .................................................. ..............
    ..........O............O.......................... ...........
    .................................................. ..............
    M................................................. ...........S
    .................................................. ..............
    ..........O............O.......................... ...........
    .................................................. ..............
    ____________________________________

    M= marine S= skulk (maybe fade) O= mine .= nothing _=wall

    The mines are clear and obvious, and they should be so the skulk avoids them. What this placement does is forces the skulk to either run down a narrow firing line, becoming an easy kill for the marine, or the skulk can try to run along the wall, losing it's ability to jump and dodge easily. Or, the skulk can just blow itself up.

    Before anyone uses this, they should first keep in mind this is a stalling tactic. A gorge can destroy the mines. A fade could risk a hit and run to clear them out. A lerk can gas you out of the position. An onos can laugh at you as he runs over them. If none of that, eventually you will be flanked. This is not a solid defense, what it is is a solid delay. You use this to secure your back as you build sieges, to delay a MS rush, and any number of other quick defenses.

    There are several very good things about this. First, it can allow one marine to stop several skulks. Second, if all goes well, the mines will never even be triggered, meaning you have a nice fall back position. Third, and most importantly, this takes only a few seconds to create. One marine can spend 10 res and 3 seconds to buy a much larger amount of time from the other team, spent either going around the trap or sitting in the spawn que.

    Now that I've explained it, maybe someone would be willing to take a shot at trying to quickly counter it.


    Note: If the other team knows about this it's effectiveness is decreased. The uninformed will spring the trap and get themselves killed. Someone who knows about it will know not to attack it directly. So, while this my not be the most effective thing on the TG server (now that anyone on it can read this post), you might find it incredibly useful on other servers (at least until they start getting wise).

    Additional Note: Bonus rep for anyone who can tell me where the name for this came from...
    "Chance favors the prepared mind" -Sir Isaac Newton

  • #2
    Re: Mines: Chariot Trap

    A cheveux-de-frise is a pit containing jagged sharpened stones jutting out spear-like in the direction of any attacking enemy. It was designed to stop any direct assault on the fort by chariots, slowing them enough to leave the charioteers exposed to attack from the warriors manning the ramparts, who would then use slingshots to rain down stones and rocks.

    Thanks and all, BBC, but it seems that this term would be better used to describe a defense against vehicles.. perhaps one that renders them useless?

    Anyway, I'm not sure what you're looking to counter in that, other than the abilities you listed. I might take a buddy skulk in there with me, as, mines or not, that stands to complicate things for the marine. That doesn't really serve to "counter" the mines, though.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    • #3
      Re: Mines: Chariot Trap

      Nice try but the specific reference I'm looking for directly relates to the design of this trap. It's the reason why Chariots ceased to be a major force in the ancient world, and it was first used (and most likely created by) a very well known great military leader of ancient times.


      And I'm smiling right now for a reason I'll explain later, particularly if no one gets the reference.
      "Chance favors the prepared mind" -Sir Isaac Newton

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      • #4
        Re: Mines: Chariot Trap

        Originally posted by Card AKA Karrd
        Now that I've explained it, maybe someone would be willing to take a shot at trying to quickly counter it.[/i]
        Leap. Problem solved.


        At hive 1, its obviously a bit harder. If you have SCs up, you can cloak past them. But what about MCs or DCs? Well to start with, running down a long hallway at a marine as a single skulk is not a good idea even without mines, and the mines just add to his advantage. But if you must remove the marine, and dont have any higher lifeforms available to help out, and can't spare the time to send a skulk to flank him from the other side, then you could try this...

        ____________________________________
        .................................................. ..............
        ....S.....O............O.......................... S...........
        .................................................. ..............
        M................S..........................S..... ...........S
        .................................................. ..............
        ...........O............O.........S............... . ...........
        .................................................. ..............
        ____________________________________

        It would work better with another skulk to draw fire. But basically, come in on the sides (dodging as normal till you reach the mines), then hop over the first mine to land in the middle, then hop over the last mine to land on the opposite corner from where you started. From there, attack marine as normal.

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        • #5
          Re: Mines: Chariot Trap

          In either case, the marine steps forward a few steps between the first mines. If the skulk doesn't manuvuer, he gets shot to death. If the skulk does manuveur, he will almost certainly hit a mine.
          "Chance favors the prepared mind" -Sir Isaac Newton

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          • #6
            Re: Mines: Chariot Trap

            also....skulks are not limited to the ground.....

            do you serve a purpose or do you purposely serve

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            • #7
              Re: Mines: Chariot Trap

              Skulks lose a great deal of thier manuvuerability when not moving along the ground.
              "Chance favors the prepared mind" -Sir Isaac Newton

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Mines: Chariot Trap

                Originally posted by Card AKA Karrd
                In either case, the marine steps forward a few steps between the first mines. If the skulk doesn't manuvuer, he gets shot to death. If the skulk does manuveur, he will almost certainly hit a mine.
                Hey, I'm not saying it's foolproof. The foolproof plan is to bring in a higher lifeform. At the least you should have another skulk attack from behind. But this at least gives the skulk a chance to fight back, in a situation that was pretty poor to begin with.

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                • #9
                  Re: Mines: Chariot Trap

                  I agree, it's a better option. As I said, it's designed to give an advantage in the standard Skulk vs Marine fight, but it's not a universally useful technique. The nice part is this is fast and easy to set up, so you can actually use it with no prep work. And it's cheap enough that you don't feel an obligation to stick around once you've set it up.


                  Now, as to it's origins: The concept was used by Alexander the Great (hence the chuckle I got out of my earlier post, I'm easily amused) to defeat the famed egyptian chariots. By deploying his spearman in parrelel lines, with a gap in between. The horses would avoid the spearmen and run down the gap, making it an easy target to all the soldiers it runs by. After this was used, chariots were never used again in a major battle. The concept behind the NS version is the same: make the enemy choose between being skewerd or going into a disadvantages position.
                  "Chance favors the prepared mind" -Sir Isaac Newton

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Mines: Chariot Trap

                    Havnt been able to try this today but, couldnt a skulk hide behind something, keep popping up and down untill the marine wastes his current lmg clip, then start rushing at him (moving how Kero suggested) hoping he misses enough of his pistol shots that you'll be able to bite him before he kills you with his knife./?

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                    [19:01] Chewy: KAMER |
                    [19:01] Chewy: i love you | Drake_Anra : I only have a problem when Kamer talks... /// Chewy : That's very much a universal problem, Drake. :D

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                    • #11
                      Re: Mines: Chariot Trap

                      He might be able to do that, but that would take time. And that is the whole point of this tactic: to buy time.

                      I don't think there is anything that can reliable stop it from doing it's job. No counter I know of would keep it from doing that if the marine is intelligent. It's a nice rabbit to pull out of your hat, particularly when starting or stoping a rush.


                      Oh, and has anyone given this a go on the server yet? (I'm counting the days almost until I can get my new computer. Far, far, too many....)
                      "Chance favors the prepared mind" -Sir Isaac Newton

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                      • #12
                        Re: Mines: Chariot Trap

                        I saw someone appearing to use it the other day. I don't recall whose team I was on, but I observed it and asked nothing about it (stuff was happening too fast). I know not if it was intentional or effective.
                        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Mines: Chariot Trap

                          It seems kind of a waste against one skulk, and in a game so fast paced if you know a skulk is coming you wont have time to lay mines in a coherent pattern.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Mines: Chariot Trap

                            Its an interesting tactic that would work better at the beginning of a game. Especialy if you want to control a coridor leading to one side of the map.
                            USAR

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                            • #15
                              Re: Mines: Chariot Trap

                              This is about strategic, not tactical, advantage. If you view it as Res/Kill, then it's a waste, but if you view it in a more strategic light the map control (even temporary though it is) is well worth the cost. Think about it, if you are setting up a siege with 4 marines, and there are 2 entrances, 2 marines can use this to almost guarantee that the siege will make it up. Or, if you are in the middle of a hive rush, one marine using this between the hive and the pg can buy you the time to get the respawning marines through for a 2nd or even 3rd attack.
                              "Chance favors the prepared mind" -Sir Isaac Newton

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