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Heavy Train with...LMGs???

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  • Heavy Train with...LMGs???

    It's extremely rare to see a HA walking around with an LMG, and for good reason. If the comm has to choose between heavy weapons and heavy armor, weapons are usually the better choice because they can be reclaimed if the user dies.

    However, I'm not here to talk about situations where you have limited money, and have to decide what to buy first. Rather, I am going to suggest that even when you are flush with cash, it may STILL be a good idea to have some LMGs in your heavy train.

    Lets take a 6 man HA train as an example. The standard loadout for this would be something like 3 HMG/3 SG, or maybe 3 HMG/2 SG/1 GL. Most of the time, those heavy weapons are very good, because they simply put out damage a lot faster than LMGs do. However, all of those weapons require 6 - 7 seconds to reload. How many times have you seen a heavy train fight off a wave of aliens, and everyone starts reloading, and the next wave comes in and NO ONE can shoot at them, giving them several free seconds to chew on you?

    Only slightly less dangerous and much more common is the situation where you finish reloading just as the next wave shows up, forcing you to be constantly fighting and leaving no time for welding. The aliens may not kill you in the first wave, but if you cant weld between waves because you are busy reloading, your armor will steadily wear down until all the heavies start dying off rapidly.

    But cant shotguns break reloads to fire, you say? Technically yes, but its kind of buggy and extremely hard to time your first 1-2 shots after breaking a reload. In addition, your average time to reload 1 shell goes up substantially if you only reload 1 or 2 at a time instead of all 8. Try to do this and you'll be fighting the whole battle with only 3-4 shells in your shotgun, instead of using the whole 8-round clip.

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    An LMG reloads in a mere 3 seconds. I wouldn't suggest an entire train of LMGs because of their lower firepower, but if you add 1 - 2 LMGs to that train, making it 3 HMG/2 SG/ 1 LMG or maybe 2/2/2, that will virtually eliminate those long pauses when the whole team is reloading at once. Even just the threat of LMG fire will often hold the skulks back until the HMGs have time to reload, and the LMGs will also find themselves with much more time available to weld friends if they dont have to spend 14 seconds to fire and reload an HMG clip.

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    I've only had the chance to test this theory once, and it worked pretty well for me that one time. But more evidence is needed to really establish it as a good plan. Thoughts? Or even better, results from times you've tried this?

  • #2
    Re: Heavy Train with...LMGs???

    I personally still haven't gotten comfortable with the HMG reload time. I usually reload almost every chance I get, and this works well with lmgs and shotguns, but when you have such a large clip and you know higher life forms will be around it can be hard (at least for me) to know when I should be reloading and when I shouldn't. It's actually something I have been meaning to play with in combat, just getting used to the amount of time. I'm sure it has happened on more than one occasion for me that I have ended up switching to pistol and back just to realize I could have finished reloading in almost that much time.

    I'm going to venture a guess that most newer players will have an easier time using lmgs and shotguns to thier full potential, at a reduced cost.

    Not saying don't drop hmgs and stuff, I'm saying more be careful who you drop it to. If I have a say in what weapon I can have, I usually pick shotgun over hmg. I don't know if I have a preference between lmg and hmg currently. If it's against skulks and stuff (frequent small battles) I think I might go lmg.

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    • #3
      Re: Heavy Train with...LMGs???

      Just to clarify-- I am talking only about a specific situation where you have several marines in the same place, and at least some of them already have heavy weapons. The question is not whether to use heavy weapons at all, but whether to use JUST heavy weapons vs. a mix of heavy and light.

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      • #4
        Re: Heavy Train with...LMGs???

        I understand, but I'm just saying it might be wise to consider what would work well for each player. It's the type of thing that could be harder to do if you don't know everyone and how well they play, but I think if there was a good way to know what players would do better with what weapons, having a good team with vercitle weapons will be a more likely outcome.

        It's nice to see marines trading weapons among each other every so often, unfortunately I don't think anyone ever offers to trade something for an LMG except maybe a GL if they really don't want it or know how to use it.

        So what I'm trying to say is perhaps if you can use your best judgement to determine who will be able to function better with the light weapons compared to the heavy, when you make the decision not to drop weapons for everyone you know who should get what.

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        • #5
          Re: Heavy Train with...LMGs???

          LMGs work fine against skulks, but if it's late enough in the game that the marines have HA, there's going to be several higher life forms on the aliens. LMGers might as well not even bother against fades and onoses, so while the rest of the team is shooting them, all LMGers can do is weld and build. However, they shouldn't try to weld in the middle of combat - that just turns them into a screen for HMG bullets. To me, the best use of denying players a good gun would be to force them into being dedicated builders.

          As for using LMGs solely against skulks, I'd still rather have a shotgun or HMG. Generally, a skulk will take me around 2-3 shotgun shellls or 15-20 HMG bullets if I'm the only one shooting it, which isn't enough to warrant a reload. When your teammates are around, the key is to stop firing once the skulk is dead. Often, a player will not stop firing until the corpse disappears, which is a waste of time and ammo.

          I don't see the long reload times as such a problem unless everyone does it at once. Players have to stagger their reloads. At any given time in a 7 man HA train, you should have 3 people covering, 2 reloading, and 2 welding or building. Those who aren't covering need the discipline to continue what they're doing despite being attacked. If you have heavy armor and there's 3 people covering you, you're not going to die.

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          • #6
            Re: Heavy Train with...LMGs???

            Good point Kero. However, the disipline required for these weapons to reach full potential in unison would probably be better spent by marines simply staying calm in battle, holding their respective positions/roles, and not reloading/welding all at once. Both arguments are terribly idealistic on a pub, tho :P.

            Another point that I'm sure Kero would agree with.. do you really need a heavy TRAIN? I mean, isn't there a certain point at which heavies become gratuitous? What I mean to say is, is it possible that with 2-3 ips, a group of 4 heavies and 3 lights is so close to as effective [as 7 heavies], that dropping a full train borders on foolish? I mean, are 3 more heavies really gonna protect the other 4 better than 3 lights would? And what about base? A heavy train is the desperate alien's chance to impede your progress. Even a skulk or two can force a commander to beacon if his heavy train is between base and their destination. Would it not be better to just drop an hmg or two for lights in base and be done with it? Would take either terrible aim, pro skulking, or a higher life form to get past your 2 light armored sentries, and do you really want any of those three things NEAR your HA train? :D


            "Who put the fun in dysfunctional? I." - Aesop Rock

            "Cuz you can choose to say 'Good morning, God! =)' or 'Good God, morning! =(" - Blackalicious

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            • #7
              Re: Heavy Train with...LMGs???

              Very true aesop, but try being a commander while three people are whining "you gave heavies to the other four people, wh can't I have one? You have 30 res, you could drop at least one more. Com, more heavies in base please"

              Of course, a good commander can function by filtering out what doesn't need to be heard, but it might hurt morale and stuff.

              I don't usually tell marines heavies finished upgrading until I'm actually ready to drop them.

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              • #8
                Re: Heavy Train with...LMGs???

                If someone bitches about PlayerB getting a toy when he didn't, get as creative as you like with your response.

                Lacking creativity, "because I said so" suffices nicely.

                If you're commanding, they get the toys when you want them to have them. If they can't handle that, you're welcome to tell them to shush themselves.
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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