Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Blocking Fades

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Blocking Fades

    I feel compelled to post this only because Wyz made a very good point over the course a few matches today.

    To put it bluntly, we (the community as a whole) pretty much are either a) oblivious to or b) not very good at blocking Fades.

    Maybe it's the whole mentality to stay alive and nobody wanting to be a martyr, or we just get caught up in the confusion of battle and forget to think clearly. Bottom line is, this is something we should all strive to work on as it really will help elevate the server beyond even what it's at right now.

    The premise: Block the Fade's retreat with your body.

    The execution: Usually by hiding by a corner, and running into the middle of (preferably) a doorway, or sometimes the middle of a hallway and trying to give the fade a big ol' bear hug.

    The reasoning: This slows or stops the fade's retreat and allows your teammates to focus their fire on the fade who is temporarily immobilized.


    Now here's some pics to help give a general idea of what to do and where to do it. In these, the:

    Yellow is the projected path of the fade

    Blue is you, the marine.

    Green is where you the marine should go.

    and

    Red is where the block should happen.

    Simple right? (God I hope so.)




    Okay, here we have a very common situation on Eclipse. Your sieging out compcore, but that pesky fade keeps coming and knocking you guys off 1 by 1. As you can see, ideally you would want to be in one of these 2 positions, and as soon as you see the fade come in, move to the doorways to try and block his retreat. In doors like this you'll probably want to jump just to make sure you clip him.




    Heres another common spot, same map. Again blue dot = you, green line is where you should go. Red X is where the block will happen.




    Admittedly, if you're having to block fades in marine start you're probably on the losing slope of the game anyway, but it helps to know where to go, and again, this is just to give everyone an idea of the basics.



    See where I'm gettin at?



    This is probably the most hectic of situations, because the fade can go so many different ways. In rooms like power sub your best bet is pay attention to the Fade's habits, and act accordingly. There really is no proper way in here, but it does give you a clue of where to go.



    Now a reminder, these are all just "for instance"s, and even then only one 1 map. Some of us already consider this to be common sense, but I honestly don't see it happening nearly enough. Especially in places and situations I've given. Keyhole and Compcore are 2 very common place siege areas where fade's can make or break your siege. Body blocking helps increase your odds of killing the fade, which in turn raises your chances of succeeding.

    Comment away


    p.s. Sorry about the pics, it's temporary until I can get them properly converted right now, I wanted to get this post up first and edit later.

  • #2
    Re: Blocking Fades

    Great thread, Eclipse!

    Originally posted by Eclipse
    Simple right? (God I hope so.)
    That's the trick. It's not simple. You've got to really be on your game to properly block a fade who knows what he's doing. That's what makes doing it one of the most satisfying accomplishments in Natural Selection gameplay. It's excellent personal maneuvering backed by a solid team-enabled accomplishment. It's awesome.

    Look at the images, guys. You've got to be one step AHEAD OF the fade. Blocking the exit really must be second nature, no less than turning to build a phase gate that your commander suddenly and unexpectedly dropped.

    Second nature. Automatic. Dead fade.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Blocking Fades

      Good job bringing this up. It is true I haven't seen good fade blocking in a while. It's something I keep in the back of my mind. I hate being a part of a siege where we have four marines standing around (the time in particular I am thinking of was outide of compcore in that picture) and they can't seem to gain the coordination to pull off a block. Those doorways really require two people for a successful block, but we had enough people to do it. I think it would help calling people out by name during battle, but I find it difficult to determine the names of specific marines around me, especially during battle.

      The other thing that makes me sad is a good block when the team is unprepared or underarmed to finish off the fade before it escapes. It's not something that can be helped so much, but I have been so happy to block a fade a few times only to be dissapointed that everyone is reloading/shooting at something else (other fade?)/looking the other way.

      In all cases it really takes a sort of collective understanding of whats going on. If there are two fades in the room, one is flying around and one just got blocked in the door, fire should (in my opinion) always turn to the fade who is blocked. Not only will a higher % of the bullets fired at it hit, but it's also likely low on health since it's trying to flee.

      I would love to see a marine start full of chaos, marines fireing every which way, and at one moment of clarity a fade gets blocked and all the fire in the room simultainiously turns to that fade and cuts it down.

      My only other pointer is don't duck when your trying to do a block. I admit I have reflexively done this a few times and ruined an otherwise good block. I mean the two main strategies outside of blocking a fade when dealing with them is strafing out of the way so they blink past you, and ducking so you are harder to hit. You don't want to do either of these when blocking a fade. Very counter intuitive.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Blocking Fades

        Comment: Blocking fades requires a lot of coordination. It's not enough simply to make the fade take an extra 2 seconds to leave the room. He has to be soaking up damage during those 2 seconds.

        Too many times I've jumped in front of a retreating fade and blocked him, but no one else was shooting him anymore (whether because they were dead, or distracted, or just too far away), so he had plenty of time to kill me and move on through anyway. And I hate to admit, more than once I have stopped shooting at a retreating fade, thinking he was going to get away anyway, only to realize that he had been blocked and I had just wasted an opportunity to pour several hundred free damage into him.

        In a hectic seige situation, ammunition is priceless. You are most likely to die while you are reloading, especially with a heavy weapon like an HMG. And even with heavy firepower, usually the best you can do to a fade is make him retreat. He will very rarely die unless he is blocked. More firepower just makes him retreat faster, but won't actually kill him. So once you've done enough damage to make him want to retreat, there isn't a lot of point to keep shooting at him. Better to save your ammo for that skulk thats about to start chewing on your legs...

        ...Unless someone just blocked that fade, and NOW is your chance to kill him before he gets away. It takes a higher level of situational awareness to tell the difference though. It can wind up being a fairly complex task just deciding what to shoot at.

        Finally, once focus comes into play, the whole equation gets harder because only marines with full health can even TRY to block the fade. Anyone who's already taken a hit is useless as a blocker because he will be wiped out in a single swipe, and the fade just keeps on going. I suspect this point right here is what makes focus most valuable for fades. So that means if you move into a combat zone with focus fades, and you know you have full health, YOU have to make sure that YOU get to a doorway first, and let your friends do the shooting.

        See? Its all simple, until you start figuring out how to actually pull it off. =)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Blocking Fades

          paranoid's right, on all counts.

          I happen to prefer it when the "hidden shotgun" is the guy that performs the block, as nothing shakes the will of a fade (even a seasoned one) like knowing that you've got a shotgun in front of you, LMGs drilling the back of you, and you can't move.
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Blocking Fades

            I'm pretty tired, so I'll keep it to what's on the top of my head:

            1. Remember that fades are extremely fast, and smart ones will be looking for marines lingering too near a door; if you make your attempts to block them obvious, they will make securing their escape top priority right off the bat. This usually means simply blinking out the door before you get there. So, if you're the one who's in the best position to perform a block, but the door is kinda far away, you might consider turning and running to the door, and just putting complete faith in your team to do the rest until you've reached your spot. What I mean is, when you're backing up or strafing and firing at the same time at a mobile target like a fade, not only do you move slower, but you can't really see where you are as easily. The priority on positioning is especially true when you've got low ammo or something like that.

            2. Kero makes an excellent point, and paranoid completes it. For a block to be effective, the team must work together. Try not to make it too obvious that the fade has gained the undivided attention of the whole room of marines. When he commits, do your thing.

            3. You don't have to always perform a 'full-on' block of a fade. Often their adren levels are low enough that even grazing them will screw up their trajectory enough to cause them to die.

            4. Don't block me when I'm fade, it's mean.


            "Who put the fun in dysfunctional? I." - Aesop Rock

            "Cuz you can choose to say 'Good morning, God! =)' or 'Good God, morning! =(" - Blackalicious

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Blocking Fades

              When i try to block a fade i usually try not to fire at the fade (or anything else) untill he is trying to escape. usually your team will wound him and make him retreat then i like to have a full clip and pistol clip for him when he tries to leave. i only do this when were in a big group of rines if there are only 2 of you you probably need to shoot :P
              ...

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Blocking Fades

                on a note.
                the idea of the fade is speed. Get in, do dmg, blink out when your life get's to a certain point. Just today i saw a fade blink past me, who dropped to 3 shots from my lvl 1 pistol. If your watching your map, you see a fade hit a bunch of your team mates, and then blink towards you, he's most likely already very hurt. without scent of fear, if he doesn't know your there, he'll get out of your team mates firing range, and stop to metabolize. HIT HIM HARD. Unload everything you have. A) You might disorient him, and he'll blink right for you thinking, someone's heading towards him from where he came. B) He still has to switch off metabolize to blink. Sometimes (it's happened to me) I go to blink, and i'm on swipe.

                Dead fades are good fades.
                Ambriento for comm! Vote today!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Blocking Fades

                  I would love to see strategic positioning where marines actually managed to surround a fade and keep it away from a hive.

                  It's a shame most NS maps don't really allow for such deliberate use of that strategy. I have found it feels quite as good to sneak around behind an enemy, and attack them when they think they are retreating to safety.

                  The type of gameplay it really takes involves everyome moving at a relatively similar speed (or you moving faster) and good intel on where the enemy and your teammates are. Also preferably long routes that don't fork much. I will have to see if any NS maps come close to that in some areas. (example, have a pg somewhere outside of the base, like a locked hive. Fade is around MS, people can be phase around and getting ready to hit the fade while he leaves.) It's bound to be applicable in one map somehwere.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Blocking Fades

                    May be wrong, but the difficulty I see in blocking fades is that there is a great deal of syncronization required, blockers who know what they are doing, marines who know to lure and then someone to be good bait, an easy target for the fade to kill, even if its in the reach of everyone else (a smoking heavy?) and then to actually react in time. COuld work better if everyone knew what was needed, then you can just scream block into your mic and everyone knows what is coming and what they need to do. I don't know much though, just a bunch of guuesses.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Blocking Fades

                      i did it while the fade was going from marine start to waste, through west access. I had just popped up the ladder from double as the fade was going back to waste, and i killed him with a pistol clip.
                      if you can get someone from acidic into chem, if their hive's satcom, the fade will most likely go through there.
                      certain sections of certain maps, it's not so bad, cuz teh fades get blocked, or have to aim for a vent (with cele, wow it's hard)
                      Ambriento for comm! Vote today!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Blocking Fades

                        Originally posted by Spawn
                        May be wrong, but the difficulty I see in blocking fades is that there is a great deal of syncronization required, blockers who know what they are doing, marines who know to lure and then someone to be good bait, an easy target for the fade to kill, even if its in the reach of everyone else (a smoking heavy?) and then to actually react in time. COuld work better if everyone knew what was needed, then you can just scream block into your mic and everyone knows what is coming and what they need to do. I don't know much though, just a bunch of guuesses.
                        It DOES in fact require a great deal of synchronization. There's a lot of information to take in, and not a whole lot of time to react. You need to be aware of the doors you're near, the doors others are near, the location of the fade, any of his friends, etc.

                        But that's not a problem. That's a CHALLENGE. :)
                        [volun2]
                        NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
                        Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
                        <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
                        <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

                        Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Blocking Fades

                          That's why you should ALWAYS be in the mindset to block or capitalize on a block as soon as you see a swipe icon in the kill log.

                          Comment

                          Connect

                          Collapse

                          TeamSpeak 3 Server

                          Collapse

                          Advertisement

                          Collapse

                          Twitter Feed

                          Collapse

                          Working...
                          X