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A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

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  • A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

    So I just got done having some fun testing a few numbers on a private server. And I found a few interesting results that don't work the way I thought, that you might be interested in.

    1--Catalyst Packs don't increase damage!

    If you read the Cat Pack description on the NS manual, it says Cat Packs offer +25% move speed, fire speed, and damage. We should all know by know not to trust the NS manual, which has more numbers wrong than right. Still, I always believed that Cat Packs increased your damage output. It turns out they do nothing of the sort. That doesn't mean they are COMPLETELY useless, as the extra run speed can help you stay alive, or chase down that fleeing Onos, but they don't do a lot for your firepower. The increased fire speed is limited by your reloading speed, which isn't affected at all. Still, I can see why most clans consider them not worth the effort. Perhaps if they actually offered the stated damage increase, they would be used more often?

    2--Leap And Charge only damage a target as long as you are "pushing" on it. Touching it isn't enough.

    Testing with drawview damage on, I noticed that Leap and Charge can actually dish out some pretty decent damage....but they only do so as long as you continue to push against your target. You can do this with the movement keys, but that makes it very difficult to actually remain in contact with your target, without slipping by it. The best method I found is to get on TOP of your target, so that gravity will do your work for you. Now Gravity is constantly pushing you against your target, and you get the maximum damage output. (Strafing also works, so if you can manage to aim at a target with your sides, feel free.)

    If you ever wondered why you cant kill buildings with Charge, heres why! Simply stand on top of that building while you charge, and watch that hp bar tick down!

  • #2
    Re: A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

    SlickWill told me the other day that cats made marines build faster. I didn't think that was the case? Which is it?
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    • #3
      Re: A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

      The Manual states that they don't, but we all know how trustworthy that is. I'd suggest you test that for yourself. My best guess would be "no" though.

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      • #4
        Re: A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

        This is more of a trick for co_ than ns_, but I've found that if you leap into a marine with level 0 armor, you can focus bite him and finish him with leap damage. Also, it's pretty often that I get the kill with bite as my selected weapon even though it's actually damage from leap when I do this.

        As for catpacks, are you sure it doesn't help reload times? I'm not sure, but it feels like shotguns reload slightly faster when I'm catpacked.

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        • #5
          Re: A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

          I've always thought catpacks increased rate of fire, reload, walk speed and build speed. Wonder how many of those are wrong.

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          • #6
            Re: A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

            I used catpacks, and I've got a thicker head of hair at 60 than I had at 22.

            Thanks, CATPACKS!
            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

              My understanding of catpacks was move speed, fire speed, and nothing else.

              Cats run and strike fast, but they don't build things (lazy buggers)

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              • #8
                Re: A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

                Hrmm, I was pretty sure catpacks increased build speed. One of the times I use them on the rare occasion that I upgrade it is dropping them on any rine building. I'm sure going to feel stupid if it turns out they don't affect this. As to the damage, I think the reason the manual says that is because it does in fact increase your dmg output, not by making a single bullet do more, but by allowing you to fire more of them.

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                • #9
                  Re: A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

                  Well, lets go through all the marine weapons:

                  LMG -- No noticeable impact, since you'll spend more time reloading than firing with Catpacks anyway.
                  Pistol-- No impact at all
                  Knife-- Increased the full 25%, but still only equals a Lvl3 LMG, and loses to any advanced weapon.
                  Hand Grenade-- No impact at all
                  Mines-- No impact at all
                  Grenade Launcher--No noticeable impact, as you spend more time reloading than firing.

                  That leaves Shotguns and HMGs. Without Catpacks, it takes about 5 seconds to empty a shotgun, and 8 seconds to empty an HMG. Reloading either takes 6 seconds.
                  Catpacks will cut the fire time to 4 seconds for a shotgun and 6 seconds for an HMG. Thats usually not worth it against buildings, since it translates to only about 10% more damage over time. Against lifeforms it CAN be good, depending on the situation.

                  For a shotgun, its hard to take advantage of the extra fire speed against anything that is dodging, as that will throw your timing off and make it hard to aim. If you've got a Blocked Fade, or a retreating Onos, then aim isnt so important and you can blast away. Anything else and the catpack is doing little good.

                  For HMGs, here I would break down and say the catpacks are probably still good even without +damage. Simply because of the huge clip size on an HMG, that extra fire speed usually will mean you get extra bullets into whatever you're shooting at.

                  So basically, without +damage, I wouldn't be dropping catpacks on anyone without an HMG, or occasionally to help chase down a wounded Onos.

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                  • #10
                    Re: A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

                    Catpacks work well on HMG, shotgun, and GL. GL is more of a specific case, it just makes the grenades explode together a lot quicker, so it deals a ton of damage in a short period of time in one area, compared to the same amount of damage over a longer period of time in one area.

                    Catpack with shotgun can help by getting that one or two extra shots into that fade.

                    Catpack with HMG just makes you empty that clip faster which against higher lifeforms and a person with good aim usually means death to the alien that thought he could have escaped.

                    Catpacks last I knew did not increase build speed but is a myth to get commanders to waste res.

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                    • #11
                      Re: A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

                      Originally posted by freebirdpat
                      Catpacks work well on...GL. GL is more of a specific case, it just makes the grenades explode together a lot quicker, so it deals a ton of damage in a short period of time in one area, compared to the same amount of damage over a longer period of time in one area.
                      Yeah, but even without Catpacks, you can completely empty a GL in under 2 seconds. Whats the benefit of cutting less than 1/2 a second off that? Its just not worth the effort.

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                      • #12
                        Re: A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

                        You can get a free semi-catpack if you lower your fps to 20. The lmg/hmg shoot the fastest at this fps over any other, 2nd highest ROF is 55fps, then 75 fps, I believe.

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                        • #13
                          Re: A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

                          Not anymore. The relationship between ROF and FPS is now linear, as FPS increases, the time it takes to shoot decreases. 100FPS is now the fastest ROF. This is also something to keep in mind for rof/reload comparisons, if you don't get full 100 FPS, you're not getting the best ROF possible.
                          Last edited by TheAdj`; 07-04-2006, 12:38 PM. Reason: tpyo

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                          • #14
                            Re: A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

                            *pulls out a stopwatch and fires off some guns*

                            Shotgun: 4.8 seconds per clip, and framerate makes almost no difference whatsoever

                            LMG: Between 2.4 and 3.3 seconds per clip, and 20 FPS is actually slightly BETTER than 99 FPS.
                            HMG: Between 6.3 and 8 seconds per clip, and 20 FPS is close to 1/2 a second faster than 99 FPS. If you set it to 21 FPS, suddenly it takes fully 12 seconds to empty an HMG. You don't get a better illustration of framerate dependancy than that folks!

                            The only downside is, its very hard to SEE anything at 20 FPS. But Neb is right, it will give you faster fire rates.

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                            • #15
                              Re: A few mechanics--Catpacks, Leap, Charge

                              Originally posted by Kerostasis
                              *pulls out a stopwatch and fires off some guns*

                              Shotgun: 4.8 seconds per clip, and framerate makes almost no difference whatsoever

                              LMG: Between 2.4 and 3.3 seconds per clip, and 20 FPS is actually slightly BETTER than 99 FPS.
                              HMG: Between 6.3 and 8 seconds per clip, and 20 FPS is close to 1/2 a second faster than 99 FPS. If you set it to 21 FPS, suddenly it takes fully 12 seconds to empty an HMG. You don't get a better illustration of framerate dependancy than that folks!

                              The only downside is, its very hard to SEE anything at 20 FPS. But Neb is right, it will give you faster fire rates.
                              Where were you testing this at?

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