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  • Defense vs Movement

    Here is the debate to end all debates. What is better for the first hive, D-chambers or movement?

    Begin!



    <I actually wanted to make this a poll, but I dont have a poll option so if an admin can be so kind>
    15
    Defense First! YARR!!
    40.00%
    6
    Movement First!! shh!!
    60.00%
    9

  • #2
    Re: Defense vs Movement

    defense chamber

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Defense vs Movement

      Which is better? Peanut butter or maple syrup? Well.. that depends, doesn't it? Am I holding a piece of bread or a belgian waffle?

      Most decisions in NS are situational. There is no one chamber to rule them all. I will say, however, that my agreeing to go MC first is a vote of confidence in the team I'm playing with. To go MC first means you better bust your ass to get the second hive up or you're gonna feel it around the 7-minute mark.

      Wyzcrak
      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Defense vs Movement

        actually, sensories for me first but only in a pub server, in TG, you can stop a cloaked skulk (that is if you read about my older topic cloak detection w/o motion tracking) but in this case, i'd take the d chamber.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Defense vs Movement

          Originally posted by _Ender_
          Here is the debate to end all debates. What is better for the first hive, D-chambers or movement?

          Begin!



          <I actually wanted to make this a poll, but I dont have a poll option so if an admin can be so kind>
          I don't see what movement really gives you, maybe celerity. I havent seen that used to win really, except for the onos stage, that realy gives you something.

          I see dcs as indespensible when fades are ready to take down elect restowers. Sure it's nice to have adren as an early fade, but an early fade is only really cost effective by taking down nodes that skulks can't.

          imho, of course.
          --
          CaveDog
          "Go sell crazy somewhere else... we're all stocked up here."

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Defense vs Movement

            Originally posted by Wyzcrak
            Which is better? Peanut butter or maple syrup? Well.. that depends, doesn't it? Am I holding a piece of bread or a belgian waffle?

            Most decisions in NS are situational. There is no one chamber to rule them all. I will say, however, that my agreeing to go MC first is a vote of confidence in the team I'm playing with. To go MC first means you better bust your ass to get the second hive up or you're gonna feel it around the 7-minute mark.

            Wyzcrak
            I think anything besides D then M is a real vote of confidence in your team. :)

            Regen keeps the fades alive while they eat at marine nodes (important in the early game), and movements with the second hive ensure that you can bounce back to the hives when the marines start pushing (and they're gonna push hives about the time that midgame rolls around).

            Unless the res is really flowin' and you can drop that third hive as soon as the second is done AND you have a reasonable expectation that the third hive will go all the way up, D then M is pretty default, I think.
            [volun2]
            NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
            Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
            <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
            <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

            Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Defense vs Movement

              Originally posted by Pokerface
              D then M is pretty default, I think.
              Agreed. Votes of confidence in my team aren't.

              MC's in the first 30 seconds of a game can be devestating to marines who aren't in the mindset to battle skulks skilled with silence. Early game skulks are LOUD. Other threads in these forums have talked about the power of audio. If skulks are suddenly silent, you've robbed the marines of their ability to track two angles of attack (in front of them and behind them) at the same time. Exploiting this weakness can, with the right team and against the right team, allow you to prevent them from putting up the nodes to electrify. They'll have fewer nodes far away, forcing them to electrify the nodes close to home (a costly sacrifice compared to elec'ing far from home).

              Wyzcrak
              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Defense vs Movement

                Right on. Plus, early MC means the marines probably haven't had time to get Motion Tracking online.
                The fact that marines generally expect DC to go up first can be exploited! For example, when we were playing Monday evening (map=Caged), the marines were taken way off guard by the aliens. It seemed that the aliens were all staying skulk and rushing the fool out of us, PLUS it appears they went SC first. Either that, or they got the 2nd hive really quick.
                Either way, it was a 30-minute exercise in how to own the marines. We couldn't do diddly because we were playing catch-up the whole time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Defense vs Movement

                  What is the 1 upgrade that gives most experienced players a hard time:

                  Silence, one of the most overlooked ablitiy and or most mis-used trait of NS.

                  If your fading and the 2nd hive hasnt started, your team is in trouble or you shouldnt have faded.

                  Movement chambers are best.


                  D?
                  regen is too slow for skulks to make a difference,
                  Cara? No need to slow skulks down even more they are already slow enough.
                  Redemp? Silly skulks

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Defense vs Movement

                    Originally posted by Emanon
                    What is the 1 upgrade that gives most experienced players a hard time:

                    Silence, one of the most overlooked ablitiy and or most mis-used trait of NS.

                    If your fading and the 2nd hive hasnt started, your team is in trouble or you shouldnt have faded.

                    Movement chambers are best.


                    D?
                    regen is too slow for skulks to make a difference,
                    Cara? No need to slow skulks down even more they are already slow enough.
                    Redemp? Silly skulks
                    I agree. But I think that a 1 hive fade with regen will cause chaos in the marine economy. No other combo can take out elec res towers as affectively. You can get 5 skulks to take one down before they all die, but you can never afford as many skulks as is required, and you can't afford the time it takes to get 3-5 skulks to get coordinated.

                    Basicaly, I think 1 hive skulks don't need an upgrade, unless you can really do something interesting with cloak or slience, like stated above. I have never been on an alien team that tried this, but I have been on the other side of it as a marine, and you can't get out of the friggin base, much less put up res towers.
                    --
                    CaveDog
                    "Go sell crazy somewhere else... we're all stocked up here."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Defense vs Movement

                      Definitely sensory... the phermones upgrade is awesome.... oh wait... nevermind. :(

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Defense vs Movement

                        DSM baby! I'm far deadlier as a focus regen fade than a celerity regen fade. If I'm playing anywhere but TG I prefer SDM, but you guys are too damn scary for me to risk it. Although, I can't stand being a 1 hive fade anyways.
                        Rm 14:2 NIV
                        One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Defense vs Movement

                          I vote for M, because you wont need a fade untill the second hive goes up neway. We always have someone saving usually me or wyz. And if you play it right silence wil pwn the other team, or celerity run and bounce circles around them while bitting. those Vs lvl 1 guns and maybe lvl 2 armor and no MT. And you can shoot to the second hive if theres trouble.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Defense vs Movement

                            Unless you have a gorge with adren follow two skulks around, elec'd RT's are going to turn you into burnt toast. So unless you get that second hive up ASAP, you are going to get raped by teched marines.

                            If Wyzcrack is com and I'm aliens, we're dropping DF. As soon as he realizes MC was dropped first, there's going to be a lot of parasited RT's up, but not much else. If elec wasn't an option for marines, then I'd cast a vote for MC.

                            MC may have a shot in a large game, but you have to get to newly finished marine RT's, kill the marines, then take the node. If you co-ordinate everything right, you can cost them loads of res by working the map.

                            Movement would be best suited to a large game with single or doubled up marines. Against large numbers, I don't think it's going to help you.

                            That said, unless my team has a kick-hoop strategy worked out before hand, I'm going to drop DC as soon as I can.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Defense vs Movement

                              On any public server, I can dominate as fade with regen. Give me a seccond hive, and with metabolize i can be in the battle and out, regen, and in again very quickly. For this reason, D chambers as fade are pretty powerful. However, there's another option, MC first. In this case the fade is played differently. I usualy get scilence. Where you could take bullets as the regen fade, it's now needed that you play more cautiously. The more damage you take, the less damage you can inflict, because as you take more damage, the sooner you have to run to the hive to heal. You just have to play really quick hit and runs. With scilence though you can do hit and runs really effectivly. Usualy you can get two swipes off before the marines realizes he's being smacked, and kill him. Skulks get more powerful as well. Skulks infact are now your main way of derailing a push towards your hive. They should have celerity, as a cele skulk is pretty hard to hit. The fades role is now to kill the marines getting recource nodes, untill he gets Defence.
                              - 52

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