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  • Movement tower strat

    Originally posted by MatDL
    Everyone knows how a building hive under attack gets the movement chambers priority right?
    has anyone ever tried sending in a solo gorg to put up a hive that is under marine control, then once it is under attack the whole team used the movement chambers to quickly come in and finish the marine outpost off? kinda like a phase gate rush for aliens.
    Originally posted by Proximae
    Omg, that would be amazing! I had never thought of doing that. It is very risky, 80 res may be wasted but if your down to 1 hive that could be something to turn the game around. With the gorge dropping oc's and the skulks chomping the outpost could fall quickly. But if they have a siege up, the attacking force may get wiped out in the blasts on the hive. So risky, but would be very very fun to try out some time.
    Originally posted by Geisha
    Since the standard building sequence seems to be Defense - Movement - Sensory, the aliens would either be doing this to the 3rd hive or a hive that they lost after getting a 2nd one & some Movements up...

    Or we start experimenting with upgrade orders again, which may mean waiting until 1.1 when the Movement & Sensory buildings become more useful in and of themselves. It's not just carapace being important to skulks that forces most aliens to build Defense first; it's also the ranged healing properties of the Defense Tower and its application in Walls of Lame.

    As long as the aliens have done their infrastructure work with resource towers, dropping 80 res for the sake of a movement tower rush is not that unreasonable, and I would love to try it or see it tried sometime.

    I think that in the case where the aliens are trying to re-take a lost hive, the aliens have better odds if the hive was lost to a jetpacker and not a siege. There's some prep work in taking down the siege cannon (or at least distracting it with another gorge building elsewhere in range) so the suicide gorge has a reasonable chance of keeping the new hive up long enough for the rest of the team to Movement Tower in.
    Originally posted by Pyro
    Excellent point Geisha. However one other thing I want to point out....

    Usually, when the aliens get hive 2, the gorge usually defends the new hive while its being built, leaving the orignally hive undefended. That is the hive that usually has defense chambers with it. So, if the new hive that gets movement lives, the old one with D dies, its possible to sneak in the with movement chambers. Or, as long as 1 movement remains after the 2nd hive goes up, its still possible to do. However like you pointed out, it can be unlikely unless some build orders are changed :-)
    Originally posted by Wyzcrak
    I used this very strategy twice to recapture Computer Core on ns_eclipse. The first time it worked brilliantly, just as you described. We had teamwork that game like it was going out of style. My second attempt failed. Similar scenario, but.. well, teamwork had gone out of style. :)

    Wyzcrak
    Originally posted by Slurgi
    This is my first post (yay!) :)

    Anyway, just yesterday after about at least a 1-hour stalemate, with the marines holding cargo, we used this strat and overcame the marines.

    btw: i dont know the map name, so whatever one has cargo and vent hives is it.

    The only problem was taking down seiges and such, but at least all aliens had the chance to warp to one centralized location before the hive fell.
    Originally posted by Samurai
    We did this to take Engine Room on bast a couple nights ago. Worked like a charm.

    Awesome idea.
    Originally posted by triten
    Yeah that was my idea that night... But wyz implemented it since he was gorge...
    Originally posted by Wyzcrak
    Every good idea I've ever had has come from billybob. He'll deny it, but he's actually the brains behind my brilliant achievements.

    Wyzcrak
    Originally posted by triten
    Come on now wyz u bring alot to the NS community and you bring alot to the game...

    I was here before you but ever since u showed up i have seen this server transform into something else....
    Originally posted by Cobra
    I would just like to say, "My name is Cobra, and I am a NSoholic"...
    I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
    --Douglas Adams

  • #2
    Well, I think the marines pretty much formalized the counter to this tonight. If you don't have a siege up, don't attack the hive. If the marines don't attack the hive, the aliens can't movement to the unfinished hive. The unfinished hive does not benefit the aliens in any way so you're not losing much but a little extra time to take the hive down. But DO attack the gorge and any support buildings he might be putting up.

    Build a siege. If you catch it early enough, you can siege before it finishes. Whether the hive is finished or not, chances are good that you'll siege-kill 1 out of every 2 or 3 aliens as they come through. Shoot the rest (obviously).

    For the alien side, the gorge could use a small escort when he tries this. The escort could try to distract the marines from the building the siege. Other than that, I don't see any way to make the Movement-In strategy effective if the marines decline to attack the new hive. Any suggestions?

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    • #3
      Very observant. This very same thing happened tonight when I was a marine on ns_nothing. The only hive we had was Cargo. The gorge put it up, and it was all some of us could do to scream DON'T ATTACK THE HIVE!!! :) :)

      haha.. scary times.. scary times.. it's like that hive is the finger in the dam, and as soon as you attack, the flood's a comin'...

      I tried to coordinate several marines to stand in front of the hive and attack it at the same time, but I don't think we ever got that down quite right.

      Wyzcrak
      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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      • #4
        I'm willing to bet money we're talking about the same game, Wyz. I was an alien.

        So, I was thinking about it, and there's still a useful application for the Movement-In. On ns_eclipse, when the marines take eclipse, the standard protection seems to be PG, TF, and about 4-6 sentry turrets (2/3 of these covering the hallways). If the gorge could get in there to drop the hive (maybe with carapace & celerity?), the 2 sentries inside the hive would shoot at the hive whether marines were there or not. This kind of commits the marines to trying to take it down fast, and allows the aliens to warp in immediately. Head straight for the phase, then the turret factory, and you've got a good chance of recovering the hive location.

        Then it depends on the marines' timely response to "Oh my stars & garters, quick guys, Eclipse!!!1"

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        • #5
          Yes Geisha, just last night (or night before) we movement rushed Eclipse is exactly.. and I mean exactly.. the fashion you outlined above. The marines had the exact setup you detailed. Our attempt failed the first time (we were shocked at the marines' efforts to keep the hive - they even brought out the grenades!). But alas, we regrouped and pushed again. Batman was our gorge, and I must say he did a smashing job. I believe it was Redeye giving him the umbra he needed to make it to the hive.

          Wyzcrak
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Wyzcrak
            Our attempt failed the first time (we were shocked at the marines' efforts to keep the hive - they even brought out the grenades!). But alas, we regrouped and pushed again.
            I think I could've held you off again with the gl, but alas it was lost when I died in one of those freak pg instakillings right before you put up the hive again.

            But anyway, I think we should have loaded the ground under the hive with mines. We were keeping the fades from coming in for the most part so I think the mines would have lasted. Then when you all mvmt'd in you would have landed on the mines, making it much easier to kill you's.

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            • #7
              I think we should have loaded the ground under the hive with mines
              thats a good idea, i never thought of that.
              4 and 3 and 2 and 1 when im on the mic the suckas run.

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              • #8
                Re: Movement tower strat

                Wyz, you mention the use of umbra, so I take it you were going for the third hive.

                How often is this strategy used to try and get out of a two-hive lockdown, and more imporantly is it ever effective? Just wondering if anyone happens to have done it that way.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Movement tower strat

                  Originally posted by Irish Pirate
                  Wyz, you mention the use of umbra, so I take it you were going for the third hive.

                  How often is this strategy used to try and get out of a two-hive lockdown, and more imporantly is it ever effective? Just wondering if anyone happens to have done it that way.
                  In getting out of a two hive lockdown, it's just about the only way, unless your fades are fantastic.

                  In reality though, a two hive lockdown with MCs as the first chamber is very difficult for PRECISELY this reason; the aliens can swarm in a hurry (3-5 minutes into the game) and the lesser-locked hive will go down to the Kharaa pretty quickly.
                  [volun2]
                  NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
                  Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
                  <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
                  <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

                  Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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                  • #10
                    Re: Movement tower strat

                    What Poker said. MMmmmmmm..... MC rush is such a beautiful thing.
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Movement tower strat

                      I'm going to point out that this thread is THREE YEARS old, and describes games played in version 1.04. I'm not sure why it's even stickied any more.

                      Do MC-Hive rushes still work? Yes, probably much better than they did back in 1.04. But most of the information in this thread is either obsolete or common knowledge by now. Now that TG has friendly fire on, its standard procedure to guard ANY new hive by hitting it yourself (with gorge spit) to enable other aliens to warp in, regardless of whether it was locked down or not when you dropped it. Hives dont cost 80 res anymore, which alone makes this strat much more viable.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Movement tower strat

                        MC rushes are better now than they were in 1.04 for a handful of reasons, not the least of which being the cheaper hive cost, ability to tempgorge, friendly fire server variable, viability of MCs first, and hive 1 Fades/Onoses. They're still very risky though depending on the magnitude of defense in the room, and the layout of the hive - you may need Onoses to take out the phase fast enough, and if the marines are prepared with shotties/HMGs your odds are pretty slim. It helps somewhat to have DCs available, and it's certainly much easier going for a 3rd hive than a 2nd thanks to pretty much all the Hive 2 abilities.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Movement tower strat

                          Anyone is welcome to move this to Tactical Wiki, updating its details in the process.
                          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Movement tower strat

                            Put it up on tacticalwiki. I hope I did well. I won't feel bad if someone majorly rewrites it because I didn't do a good format or completely missed the point or something.

                            The reason I asked about the 1 hive movement rushes is I have seen them tried frequently, but i'm not sure i've ever seen one succeed. It probably speaks more to the fact that if the aliens let the marines lock down two hives the team might not be good enough, and the marines might have more than sufficient fire power to stop them.
                            Last edited by Irish Pirate; 01-07-2006, 05:13 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Movement tower strat

                              I haven't read it all, yet, Irish, but I like what I see. Also, Poker, who has read it all, has already commented in the TGNS admin forum that you've done a "very nice job overall."

                              You've earned, with this work, three weeks of SM priviledges (including the reserved slot) on TGNS, beginning on the date which you specify in a forums PM which you may send me at your convenience.

                              Many thanks, and well done! :)
                              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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