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  • The T-Fact

    Corner stone 2nd to the PG of an attack on a hive. I would like to get some opinions on what people do.

    I personally:
    If the alien team is unaware of the marines' positon near the hive ill just go for seige and kill the damn thing.

    If they know your there I try to electrify first with PG next to it to get rid of the skulks. Then go to seige. IF a fade is present I will drop 1 pack of mines and 2-3 turrets. While the turrets dont worry the fade as in damage wise, they do block their easy entrance and retreat. Along with an SG or two the fade doesnt stand much chance without the help of a gorge.


    2ndly this has become less and less of a problem but still exists. If the alien team has 2 hives and there is a gorge near by kill the damn thing. Forget about the fade, atmost it will get 3-4 swipes in on one object before it has to run away. The gorge gets 3-4 bile bombs in and all of your structures are half dead. Even if you have to reload, reload while running at the gorge, it is a somewhat fragile lifeform and most people who are a gorge will run when a marine comes running, just get it away!

    I have seen and have it on my video of 3 gorges that surpised attacked marine start and under 30 sec there was nothing left but the CC. GG gorge win.

    KILL THE GORGE!

  • #2
    Re: The T-Fact

    Aye - I will often gorge if we don't already have one to bile the marine encroachment.

    Not being much of a commander these days, but having played for many, tfac and siege is preferred except in the cases where the aliens are totally (and I do mean totally) unaware of the marine PG presence. The shotgun rush works only if you can get all marines in there and hitting the hive in under 10 seconds with no alien noticing the PG. I would say that if the aliens do notice, unless you're far ahead on the res front, drop back and siege using the SGs you just dropped to defend the PG / TFac. No point in rushing a hive, having all the marines shoot it, if the aliens are there and will wipe the force out before the hive falls.

    Turrets are definitely preferred to block fade movement and to help with two hive situations. If they have two hives - don't bother with mines. Bile takes them out with extreme prejudice - and hurts everything in the process. An HMG on defense, if available, will help prevent the fade hit-and-runs as sieges usually happen in long halls with good approach shots. Weaken them on the way in, let the shotty finish it off.

    Elec first is not always a bad option if you have good marines that are providing fire support long enough to get the additional TFac upgrade. Just keeps skulks off the PG and out from behind it.

    In truth, your best TFac defense is marines that spread out, and putting the thing on a wall where skulks can't get behind it - optimally in a corner where all marines can fire on it and it's tough to bile.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The T-Fact

      Shooting the hive down is much easier than trying to siege it out. As a commander I hate sieging a hive, it's a long and expensive process that shotguns do faster and more efficient. I've taken to getting catpacks recently just for such a situation. Sieges are expensive, slow, and vulnerable. If anything, I prefer to throw up two sieges, batter down any chambers in the hive, then shotgun rush the hive while the sieges pound it. Sieges do a lot of damage, and when they can constantly fire at the hive, they do insane damage while the marines shoot the hive. It's much more effective and it's difficult to counter as an alien. Usually they get confused and try to kill the sieges, or try to kill the marines, not doing both at the same time. Of course I have 2-3 IPs up and pumping marines back to the siege point, so unless they attack the phase gate, the sieges, and the marines at the same time, it's difficult to counter. Plus my catpack combo has recently been unstoppable, and is very effective at neutralizing aliens in a hurry. On another server my marines catpacked down 4 fades in 30 seconds at a hive, it was ridiculous to watch the entire alien team die that fast. Just brutal.

      Edit: electrification is useless unless it's a siege rush in the first 3 minutes of the game. After that, electrification is a waste of 30 res that would be better used in a lvl2 upgrade or 3 shotties. You'll get more use out of it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The T-Fact

        Yep, it seems like anymore all the marines have to do is concentrate their forces (beacon) and then run into a hive and kill it. Takes all of 2 seconds. Usually the aliens, who by necessity are spread all over the map, will get one little flash that the hive is under attack, and then it's over.

        Yay!

        3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The T-Fact

          Well, consdering a level three shotgun does 208 damage (if all pellets hit) and with cat packs you can fire what, twice a second: that's around 400 damage a second. Times 6 marines is 2400 damage a second if all are firing at the hive and all got their kittens. Hives have what? 3500 health? Do the math.

          That's why I like to wait till everyone is in position (if we have the time) because with the unchained chambers aliens can have movs at any time and having the hive go down in 2-5 seconds allows the com to bacon or the rines to jump back through the phase if need be therby saving 60 res in equipment (provided there is no time to clear the hive room and cap the node).

          One of my main issues in NS is that I have never taken the time to do the math on certain situations like: how many turrets/elec TFs do I need to do damage faster than an onos can regenerate it? Stuff like that where you can do a quick mathmatical survey of a situtation and react accordingly.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The T-Fact

            Originally posted by Tempus
            Yep, it seems like anymore all the marines have to do is concentrate their forces (beacon) and then run into a hive and kill it. Takes all of 2 seconds. Usually the aliens, who by necessity are spread all over the map, will get one little flash that the hive is under attack, and then it's over.

            Yay!

            With the unchained chambers, people are beginning to learn the usefullness of SOF, and has been stoping these PG rushes more often.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The T-Fact

              Emanon is right. Also, removing upgrades from the scenario, experience plays into it. There is something to be said for being able to recognize that it's been quiet.. for everyone on your team... for the last 15 seconds.. and realizing that you have about 7 seconds to do what it takes to start checking on your hives, and then having the leadership skills over the next 12 seconds to rally your team into and around the hive the marines are rushing.

              Some people call that luck, and sometimes it is. But sometimes it's just experience.. that little voice in your head that says something isn't right.
              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The T-Fact

                The problem has been the same for aliens for some time...

                They have to be all over the map to protect their resource nodes... The fades have to be all over the map taking out electrified res nodes... But the marines can do pretty much whatever they want, and do so en-mass. This means that unless the aliens react instantly to an incoming marine threat, or by chance a fade is already in the area, there is little that aliens can do to prevent hive rushes.

                This is pretty much old news, but it is one of the prime reasons I've stayed away from the game lately.

                3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The T-Fact

                  Originally posted by Tempus
                  The problem has been the same for aliens for some time...

                  They have to be all over the map to protect their resource nodes... The fades have to be all over the map taking out electrified res nodes... But the marines can do pretty much whatever they want, and do so en-mass. This means that unless the aliens react instantly to an incoming marine threat, or by chance a fade is already in the area, there is little that aliens can do to prevent hive rushes.

                  This is pretty much old news, but it is one of the prime reasons I've stayed away from the game lately.
                  Come back sure there are games like that, but it goes the other way. Its much better than what it use to be. Everyone has a bunch more experience.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The T-Fact

                    Originally posted by Tempus
                    They have to be all over the map to protect their resource nodes... The fades have to be all over the map taking out electrified res nodes...
                    Marines still have to sacrific. Electrification costs them upgrades early on. Hit their base if you have nothing better to do while waiting for the second hive or fade. If they don't electrify, 1 or 2 skulks can cripple the marines res situation while they try to push on a hive.

                    Guys, I can't stress this enough: during any hive rush, you have to decide whether your one weak body will help stem the tide or if you should send one guy out to hit their res nodes. People get sidetracked so easily. If the rines are sitting on 4+ res nodes and killing skulks left and right while they try to get the sieges up, they are swimming is res. Make better use of yourself.

                    Also, getting that third hive going up is more important than dying to shotguns. If you have the res, forget about defending one hive and put the other one up.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The T-Fact

                      Originally posted by Tempus
                      The problem has been the same for aliens for some time...

                      They have to be all over the map to protect their resource nodes... The fades have to be all over the map taking out electrified res nodes... But the marines can do pretty much whatever they want, and do so en-mass. This means that unless the aliens react instantly to an incoming marine threat, or by chance a fade is already in the area, there is little that aliens can do to prevent hive rushes.

                      This is pretty much old news, but it is one of the prime reasons I've stayed away from the game lately.
                      There's plenty aliens can do to prevent hive rushes. I'll grant you that once one STARTS, they're hard to stop. But the real key is not letting them happen in the first place. Control res. Keep heads up on movement intel.

                      Active strategy is the name of the game; generally, in NS, on either side, if you're reacting, you're already losing.
                      [volun2]
                      NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
                      Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
                      <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
                      <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

                      Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The T-Fact

                        I pulled something like that the other night after the marines just had a failed rush on furnace and lost a whole bunch of res with the PG, TF, and turrets. I figured the com wouldn't want to give up so easily so I waited with focus in the range of a sens chamber for about 15 seconds. Sure enough a marine came in and called for a PG. I waited to make sure that he was alone and took him down before he could fire a shot. Only cost the com a little res, but it probably helped that everyone was hanging around MS waiting for the phase to go up. Cost in time possibly made it worth the wait.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The T-Fact

                          I was commander in that game, and the effect on the marine team was almost exactly as you've described.





                          Bastard.
                          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The T-Fact

                            scent of fear = your friend


                            I always go SOF simply because its shows were all the marines are. With a team of 7 aliens, 3 of them should have scent of fear to cover the map. It helps.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The T-Fact

                              Electrified T-facts are almost never a waste of res, numerous amounts of times I have seen on this server where the skulks kill almost all the rines and go to chew on the PG/TF and they can't. The only thing able to take it down quick enough is a couple of gorges with bile bomb or an onos by the time the comm beacons everyone. A good fade could probably get off what? 5 swipes? before the marine team comes through all together.


                              Yet another reason to kill the gorge/become one.

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