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  • Sens Strat and why it works!

    Ok, this is to all of you nay sayers against sens first. For simplicity sense chamber = (s)

    Have one gorge (probably yourself) devote much of the first half of the game to sens building. Your goal is simple. Put one (s) in your hive and another in the second hive location. After this you should put your (s)'s in high marine traffic areas. Knowing nifty little spots to put them is a great advantage. I have shown some of you my super sexy ns_tanith spots. Most maps have only so many ways out of marine start and always have the one or two areas to siege a hive. Those are the areas you are looking for. Not only for the scent of fear it provides but also for SMART skulks to get focus and use the chamber to cloak. This way you have all three upgrades. A nice 3 skulk base rush targeting the arms lab is a nice little game ender ^_^ along with a focus fade. Getting Mc's second is your best shot since your fades can metabolize with adrenaline and use focus you will have a strong early game. Plus there are those silly comms that take so long to get armor one (me as a comm always rush my arms lab even before my IP to gain those crucial extra seconds for armor 1) Played right (s) is the BEST first chamber. And you know why? Because i said so... :D
    Quotes From Wise People:
    "Never enough time to do it once but always enough time to do it again."
    "If he(She) ever learns what it is to speak ill, he will no longer be angry"
    "You'll learn good from the good; those who are not, If you mix with them, spoil the sense you've got."

  • #2
    Re: Sens Strat and why it works!

    As always, you cannot declare a chamber the best in every situation. The main three things I consider when deciding on a chamber is the fade(s), the map, and overall aliens. Then I think about the likely commander and his/her strat (Fenix w/early MT anyone?). Well placed SCs do give you all three upgrades in an area, but in a large map Mcs might be better for closing distances and getting to hives... etc. Although I would like an SDM game for once...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Sens Strat and why it works!

      Problem with early MT. MT does not detect those skulks moving around the sens chamber. So with my special (s) placements MT is rendered useless. ;) As for your fellow players being taken into account, all you need worry is if they know how to utilize this beautiful strat :P With team work imo sense is the best. Two skulks with focus near said (s) can take out a rine in .1 seconds (or a fade for that matter) ;) For large maps all you need is your sens chambers at the siege spots as i said and rush that second hive. Mcs follow. Basically what (s)'s in siege locations do is stop those sneaky ninja's and alert all to a possible pg attempt. Plus make your lerks very deadly. No suprises and you always know where to spore. But as i have said. It takes a team who knows how to utilize the sens chamber strat (but that can be said of all chambers :P). In the CM tests when sens was dropped first you had a 80% alien success rate. And this was ussually all games with skilled players on BOTH sides.

      SDM Would be a mistake unless it is a small map. The MC function of going to a wounded hive is just to great of a advantage to pass up till third hive since second hive is more than sufficient to end a game.

      D's First = Beginner
      Mc's First = Intermediate
      Sc's First = Advance
      Quotes From Wise People:
      "Never enough time to do it once but always enough time to do it again."
      "If he(She) ever learns what it is to speak ill, he will no longer be angry"
      "You'll learn good from the good; those who are not, If you mix with them, spoil the sense you've got."

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Sens Strat and why it works!

        The best way to counter SC first is a two hive lock-down. With an electrifed RT, PG, TF and 3 turrets: that fade isn't going to take that hive back anytime soon. And while he's doing that, you leave one rine to weld both sites, the rest push enemy res nodes. Then you can slowly consolidate your position.

        If you work multiple obs, you can push the map killing RTs and SCs, thereby forcing the aliens to drop more.

        Winning with SC doesn't require a badass alien team, it requires intelligent marines who can use what the commander gives them.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Sens Strat and why it works!

          Sens chambers are defensive, not offensive. Playing defensive at the start of the game doesn't bode well for the rest of the game. If aliens aren't on the offensive right off the bat, they'll probably get trapped in their first hive.

          CM playtests had a 80% alien win rate period. It had nothing to do with first chamber. In pre-1, the first night, I remember out of over a dozen games marines had 2 wins.

          SC would be better if there were good upgrades. Cloaking, again, is defensive. Doesn't help you hit rts, doesn't help much when marines move in groups. Focus makes you unable to hit buildings, and is totally useless after armor 1 for skulks, you'd be better off without it at that point. Scent of Fear is nice, but it only tells you where the marines are, it does not make them dead, and is easily simulated through parasite and paying attention.

          With one hive, you shouldn't need protection from ninjas. This is a concern at two or three hives. If the marine team is active (i.e. wyz is comm), your sensory chambers are already dead, and the marines have more map than you could shake a stick at.

          I'd say, sensory first still doesn't offer a lot. It has some nice features, but nothing that can compete with MC or DC first. An active alien team could find sensory second very helpful.

          Sensory first is only a viable strat in the sens of changing things up, I think. It's not a win every time, but it could be a win used every once and a while if just because it's different from the usual strats.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Sens Strat and why it works!

            Originally posted by rs_al
            Sens chambers are defensive, not offensive. Playing defensive at the start of the game doesn't bode well for the rest of the game. If aliens aren't on the offensive right off the bat, they'll probably get trapped in their first hive.
            I totally disagree to the point of making my bunny lost his pancake on his head because he is shaking his head so much.

            Originally posted by rs_al
            CM playtests had a 80% alien win rate period. It had nothing to do with first chamber. In pre-1, the first night, I remember out of over a dozen games marines had 2 wins.
            Pre-4 and pre-5 When there was literally only one server to pick from i was on that server. Sens was dropped first 90% of the time. I dont know what servers you were playing on but i heard a lot were using a lot of goofy game altering plug-ins.

            Originally posted by rs_al
            SC would be better if there were good upgrades. Cloaking, again, is defensive. Doesn't help you hit rts, doesn't help much when marines move in groups. Focus makes you unable to hit buildings, and is totally useless after armor 1 for skulks, you'd be better off without it at that point. Scent of Fear is nice, but it only tells you where the marines are, it does not make them dead, and is easily simulated through parasite and paying attention.
            cloaking is not defensive... It allows you to move around the map without hitting mt and sneak up behind marines to get that first crucial bite. Allowing you to bite again for the kill. As for big groups since when does one skulk kill the entire group? Never. Unless the skill of the teams are SO unbalanced and FF is rampant. Focus is very deadly even late game. It enables two well placed hits to kill up to a lv 3 armored rine. and if you have that SoF Lerk to spore and get thier armor down it is back to one hit. When a group of five rines goes near a sense chamber 2 things should happen... the SoF lerk should see this mass of red spots and spore while the focus cloaked skulks move in for a one bite kill. Not to mention a fade. Used properly focus fade is the most deadly upgrade offensively.

            Originally posted by rs_al
            With one hive, you shouldn't need protection from ninjas. This is a concern at two or three hives. If the marine team is active (i.e. wyz is comm), your sensory chambers are already dead, and the marines have more map than you could shake a stick at.
            I was speaking of later game or what Fenix refered to as early hive lock downs. 99.9% of the time no one parasites and no one scouts (on pubs). Thus the sense chamber is utilized. And as for pushing the aliens back if aliens have chambers that far up then you can bet the nodes are there as well. Rines res flow is very important here and would be little to none.

            Originally posted by rs_al
            I'd say, sensory first still doesn't offer a lot. It has some nice features, but nothing that can compete with MC or DC first. An active alien team could find sensory second very helpful.
            I am sorry you feel this way. The point to this new revision was to make every chamber viable. Instead they made Sense a power house. Used right it is the best choice in all situations.

            Originally posted by rs_al
            Sensory first is only a viable strat in the sens of changing things up, I think. It's not a win every time, but it could be a win used every once and a while if just because it's different from the usual strats.
            I highly disagree. Though yes i cant garuntee a win everytime i would say the ratio would be more than half for wins to losses.
            Quotes From Wise People:
            "Never enough time to do it once but always enough time to do it again."
            "If he(She) ever learns what it is to speak ill, he will no longer be angry"
            "You'll learn good from the good; those who are not, If you mix with them, spoil the sense you've got."

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Sens Strat and why it works!

              Originally posted by TheFeniX
              The best way to counter SC first is a two hive lock-down. With an electrifed RT, PG, TF and 3 turrets: that fade isn't going to take that hive back anytime soon. And while he's doing that, you leave one rine to weld both sites, the rest push enemy res nodes. Then you can slowly consolidate your position.
              This is all good in theory, but how do you get a two hive lock down with sc's telling where your marines are? Plus with the early lerk going in big bunches setting up pgs and tfs would be very difficult. Let's just say you got the third hive. But the second one would be going up pretty qiuckly by the time you got two obs and a hive lock down. (wasting precious res for upgrades and or guns). As a gorge i can take out turrets and create a blind spot for hungry skulks. Vents are everywhere and i know you wont have gls yet... hehe

              Originally posted by TheFeniX
              If you work multiple obs, you can push the map killing RTs and SCs, thereby forcing the aliens to drop more.
              This is later game. Two hives would be up and another chamber put down.

              Originally posted by TheFeniX
              Winning with SC doesn't require a badass alien team, it requires intelligent marines who can use what the commander gives them.
              I think i know what you meant to say. You meant that winning against sense as rines reqiures rines listening? Well ya, but that could be said for all chambers. Tactically Sense gives you the most to play with. Power, stealth, and sight. Dont get me wrong. I love movements too. But sense will always be number one in my mind. ^_^
              Quotes From Wise People:
              "Never enough time to do it once but always enough time to do it again."
              "If he(She) ever learns what it is to speak ill, he will no longer be angry"
              "You'll learn good from the good; those who are not, If you mix with them, spoil the sense you've got."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Sens Strat and why it works!

                Originally posted by RisingSun
                This is all good in theory, but how do you get a two hive lock down with sc's telling where your marines are? Plus with the early lerk going in big bunches setting up pgs and tfs would be very difficult. Let's just say you got the third hive. But the second one would be going up pretty qiuckly by the time you got two obs and a hive lock down. (wasting precious res for upgrades and or guns). As a gorge i can take out turrets and create a blind spot for hungry skulks. Vents are everywhere and i know you wont have gls yet... hehe
                The games I've pushed for an early two-hive lock-down: I have easily routed the alien team. I would laugh at a gorge trying to spit my turrets to death while I had a marine welding them.

                This is later game. Two hives would be up and another chamber put down.
                With sens down first, you have to stop that second hive from going up.

                I think i know what you meant to say. You meant that winning against sense as rines reqiures rines listening? Well ya, but that could be said for all chambers. Tactically Sense gives you the most to play with. Power, stealth, and sight. Dont get me wrong. I love movements too. But sense will always be number one in my mind. ^_^
                No, it just requires marine who aren't brain-dead when it comes yo using the map and other payers to your advantage. Marines need to travel in groups, and use the map.

                The problem with your post in that it hinges on the marine team not reacting or acting in any effective manner. There is a counter for sens, it just take more intelligence than it used to.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Sens Strat and why it works!

                  Originally posted by RisingSun
                  Pre-4 and pre-5 When there was literally only one server to pick from i was on that server. Sens was dropped first 90% of the time. I dont know what servers you were playing on but i heard a lot were using a lot of goofy game altering plug-ins.
                  There was one, but it altered things fundamentally. We ran unchained chambers, as the DMS default was getting on our nerves. It opened up a lot of new gameplay without particularly damaging the core NS experience.

                  The point to this new revision was to make every chamber viable. Instead they made Sense a power house. Used right it is the best choice in all situations.
                  I can't agree to that, and it's no fault of the sensory chamber or its powers. The others are just WAY too good in the first two positions, I think. The ability to take a movement chamber to a hive is pretty key to holding one under attack, and the ability to withstand the increased damage mid- and late-game marines dole out is too important to leave until the third hive is up.

                  Sensory chambers are weak and generally too easily destroyed to make the investment in them in the early game, unless you happen to have someplace where marines can not (or dare not) tread in mind to place them.
                  [volun2]
                  NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
                  Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
                  <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
                  <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

                  Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Sens Strat and why it works!

                    Basically the spots i put the scs in are spots that are no accessible to a knife. The DMS type of thinking was erradicated in pre-5 but it is wierd to see people still using it. Is it the lack of wanting change? I mean the chamber gives you all three upgrades. Imo Dc's are the least powered up now. What do you get? Regen and your upgrade... Mc's you get Hive movement, adrenaline, and your upgrade. I wont bother explaining scs again. :P But i guess it all falls under matter of opinion. I can agrue this until i am blue in the face. Sense doesnt garuntee a victory but i think gives you the best shot at one when played by a effective alien team. Good Aliens vs Good Marines in my experience = Alien Win. This is happening in CAL as well, No matter what the chamber. I stick by my strat as the most tactical and has the most applications. :D
                    Quotes From Wise People:
                    "Never enough time to do it once but always enough time to do it again."
                    "If he(She) ever learns what it is to speak ill, he will no longer be angry"
                    "You'll learn good from the good; those who are not, If you mix with them, spoil the sense you've got."

                    Comment

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