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  • A different kind of commander...

    I've had am idea floating around in my head since a little after I started playing NS, and it goes more or less like this: how effective would a team be if the Commander was not the only one in charge? Why is it a regular marine can't be the deciding on the teams strategies and goals?

    Before going into why I think this might be an effective team (and a few reasons why it wouldn't be) let me explain how I see this other kind of marine team:

    When the round starts, you split the team into two commands. The first is under the control of the Commander, and their goal is to assist the Commander in 3 things- Gathering resources, advancing marine tech, defending the marine held areas. The second command would be under the command of one of the marines, who would be the recognized leader. This groups first goal is to take the fight to the kharaa. Their second goal is to capture hives. Lastly, they would serve as an emergency reserve for defending Marine Start (or the equivalent).

    During gameplay it would go like this:
    (start of round)
    group 1- a marine or two stick around to build base. The rest of group 1 go build nodes.
    group 2- moving in either a single large group, or split into 2 smaller groups this group goes to wherever the other team is likely to be, and then does whatever it can to hurt them early on.

    (mid game)
    group 1- continues to build base as needed, defends any captured hives, defends res nodes, rebuilds nodes that are destroyed, defends MS (or the equivalent). Possibly a portion plays a res destroying role, if not needed for defense.
    Group 2- moves as a single large group (or in a larger game in groups of about 4) with a mix of weapons (lmgs/shotguns or hmgs/shotguns/1gl) , with first priority on killing enemy nodes, then on capturing hives, lastly on killing high level lifeforms.

    (late game)
    group 1- priorities are 1st to defend marine start, 2nd to build defenses at captured hives, 3rd to defend the final phase gate as group 2 kills off the last hive.
    Group 2- breaking up into smaller parties, they isolate the enemy team into a final hive, then set up an assault point to take down the final hive (which will then be defended by group 1), they then kill off the final hive.


    There are some advantages to this setup:

    Biggest, the commander is less distracted from the role he has to fill, that of supply officer. This is one of the more common shortcomings of commanders, that after the start of the game, they get so caught up in leading the marines that they forget about the vital role upgrading, researching, and structure dropping plays (note: while itís still there to an extent, most of the commanders on the TG server donít have this happen that often). This is a role that no other player can fill, so it is important that the commander does it well.

    The next advantage, is that because the one leading the attack does not have to worry about the resource management and defense aspect of commanding, he can be much more focused on winning.

    While not tied directly to having someone other than the commander direct offense, dividing the team into two clear cut groups, with established objectives, does greatly increase the odds that none of those objectives will be forgotten, or neglected.

    You would be able to trade personal between the groups, so if someone gets tired of doing one thing, they can trade and both teams get someone fresh for their duties.


    Now hereís the flaws:

    1) this will not work unless at least most of the team know what they will be doing, right from the start. A commander and a leader must be decided on before the match even starts (which is why I think this will only really be seen in captains games, which would be easily configured like this since frequently the captain and the commander are not the same person).

    2) In order for the leader to be able to maintain awareness of the whole map, the commander would need to communicate well with him (to tell him when nodes are under attack, where the commander hears action, when a marine is under attack, etc.).

    3) there is a strong possibility that during the duller moments, players in group 1 may lose discipline and try to join group two.

    4) until it proves itself, a lot of players will complain in the change of management.


    Oddly enough, that seems to be the only real drawbacks to the strategy. Once you avoid flaws 1 and 4 you have a very effective team. In theory at least, I really hope I might get a chance to test this out.
    "Chance favors the prepared mind" -Sir Isaac Newton

  • #2
    Re: A different kind of commander...

    It's always interesting to see wild and crazy new ideas. That meaning, ideas that differ from the norm. I agree that in order for this to have a chance, it would need to be during a captains game so that 1) your team is full of (hopefully) competent players, and 2) you have sufficient time to plan it. You might find that it is a little more complicated than it seems, for example the commander might need to redistribute forces between the teams based on how the game is progressing.

    A good idea, thought provoking if nothing else. I would enjoy getting a chance to be a part of the implementation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A different kind of commander...

      This isn't as much of a new crazy idea as it is a revamp of an old 1.04 strategy that used to be rather prominent, The Field Commander. The FC was in charge of running the tactics and grunt placement etc, while the Comm was in charge of tech, resource managing, information, and supply (medpacks, weapons etc.)
      It can work, but it usually is better suited to teams that know eachother well, because it hinges on the fact that now instead of needing 1 commander that knows what's important and what they should be doing, it also requires that the FC know what's important and what they should be doing, as well as the grunts now having to listen to 2 seperate people.
      a.k.a. NinjaPirateAssassin
      Celibacy is not Hereditary.
      Everybody should believe in something - I believe I'll have another drink.
      Happiness is like wetting your pants, everyone can see it but only you can feel the warmth.
      Flying is easy, Just throw yourself at the ground and miss!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A different kind of commander...

        The reason for the division into 2 groups is so the "grunts" as you put it, only have to listen to one person.

        Good ideas are generally repeated, so it doesn't surprise me that someone has done this before.

        One other advantage of this, the kharaa would have to split thier forces as well, in coordinated fashion, to have a good chance of winning. If they randomly spread out about the map, they will be creamed by the grouped up marines. If they group up into a single large group, the moment they attack the defending marines, they will probably have to pull away to defend against the attacking marines. Only by splitting thier team along roughly the same line (offense/defense) would they have any real chance of winning. Even then, it wouldn't be a very large chance, becuase the marines have better defensive structures to support thier defenders with, giving them a minor but significant advantage.
        "Chance favors the prepared mind" -Sir Isaac Newton

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A different kind of commander...

          I like this idea. It is sort of unofficially implemented and is similar to a leader role that I wanted to mention in another thread. Smaller decisions should not be made by the commander. Here is an example:

          Wyz is comm, me and another marine moving Port Engine hive (nancy). Early game (3:00) and we are being pinched with a lerk on our back and two OCs at the entrance to port. I felt that we were stuck - moving for the sake of moving but not accomplishing anything, and that we will die to the lerk (vapox i believe). I yell for us to kill a gorge I heard near the hive and then get out. (we proceed to kill the gorge and hurt an rt real bad).

          Those kind of field decisions need to be made by more people in the game - just because you aren't the captain, or the commander doesn't mean that you can't order people to do something with you if you think it will help out. Don't be shy - thinking 'what if I am wrong? the commander knows better i shouldn't order anyone.' etc etc. Trust yourself and your instincts more in the field, and it will make it more enjoyable for most. We delayed the hive for at least 1 minute (i think it was actually 2) because of that decision, instead of hurting the lerk a bit and causing the lerk to retreat for 30 seconds. It was a decision that the commander couldn't make for us for a multitude of reasons. The commander cannot micromanage everything (although sometimes i swear some comms here have a seperate monitor for each marine).

          This idea makes a field commander more official and will bring more authority to him/her. I am always up to trying something new (especially in this game), and hope to see what new tactics it brings.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A different kind of commander...

            I was wondering if anyone might be willing to try this out? Maybe set up an arranged time and date to give it a try, preferrably a time when the server wouldn't already be full.
            "Chance favors the prepared mind" -Sir Isaac Newton

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A different kind of commander...

              surprised, you will be. hmm, yes. in 3.1, you will see.
              USAR

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A different kind of commander...

                Originally posted by squeak
                surprised, you will be. hmm, yes. in 3.1, you will see.
                You sir should be banned for cruelty. :D

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A different kind of commander...

                  Originally posted by Card AKA Karrd
                  I was wondering if anyone might be willing to try this out? Maybe set up an arranged time and date to give it a try, preferrably a time when the server wouldn't already be full.
                  Just grab the chair and try it sometime. Most people on the server are willing to try some crazy stuff as marines (as they spend so much time losing anyway, they mightaswell die interstingly)
                  a.k.a. NinjaPirateAssassin
                  Celibacy is not Hereditary.
                  Everybody should believe in something - I believe I'll have another drink.
                  Happiness is like wetting your pants, everyone can see it but only you can feel the warmth.
                  Flying is easy, Just throw yourself at the ground and miss!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A different kind of commander...

                    The reason I want an arranged trial is that by the time I finished explaining to everyone the concept, in it's entirety, we'd have already lost. And it's unlikely anyone would be willing to give it a second if the first one seemed to have already failed. So I need most of the marine team to already know the idea ahead of time, so that it will be an actual trial instead of a lecture disguised as a trial, if you get my meaning.
                    "Chance favors the prepared mind" -Sir Isaac Newton

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A different kind of commander...

                      Originally posted by Card AKA Karrd
                      The reason I want an arranged trial is that by the time I finished explaining to everyone the concept, in it's entirety, we'd have already lost.
                      Sounds like the planning stage of a captains round would be the perfect place for this...
                      Cool! Personalized plates! Barclay, Barry, Bert, Bort...come on...Bort?

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