Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Killing the CC during a hive assault.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Killing the CC during a hive assault.

    This idea occured to me during a recent game of ns. It is very specific to a particular situation for it to be applied, but I am just curious as to how well it would work, and if anyone else has already posted/tried the idea.

    The situation is during a marine team relocation that is going well and the marines are in the process of attacking a hive. Now to the best of my knowledge aliens almost always leave the CC alone until someone just gets bored, doesn't listen, or the aliens need to buy a few seconds. A fairly common thing to do would be to kill the CC and either make the commander walk, or kill him. It is also my understanding that aliens are more powerful individually than marines and that during a hive attack all marines should be at the hive with maybe one marine defending the base and the commander in the chair.

    So the idea is to allocate about half the team to slow down the marines assault, and the other half to attempt to do serious or game ending damage to the marine base. Killing the CC will take the commander out slowing the hive assault and making the commander walk buys the alien team time to hopefully inflict serious damage to their relocated base. I say kill the cc first because to me it seems like a regular strategy to buy time for the aliens, but in not killing the commander the marines don't get a warning that their base is under attack, no beacon, and a slowed hive assault. If the pg, ips, and cc are primary targets, would half the alien team have enough time to do that much damage? Worst case for aliens being marines have HA and aliens have maybe 1 fade and 3-4 skulks attacking.
    Last edited by Kenny; 06-03-2005, 10:52 PM. Reason: I just noticed the title and the top of the post are kinda confusing.

  • #2
    Re: Killing the CC during a hive assault.

    Serious problems with this idea, mainly getting your team to the marine base before your hive goes down (or even a 1/4th of ur closest team) but base rushes during hive rushes can be QUITE effective. That leads to the 2nd problem, how long would it take four skulks to take down a command chair, quite frankly your hive would be dead LONG before you got that CC to half, even if you did some how manage to get 1/2 ur team blocking the marine team, and 1/2 the alien team killing marine CC, the comm can simply drop another chair as well as beacon. (grumble, bad memmories of a need to beacon, and no PG at the hive, and one marine at a near dead hive with fully loaded shottie, grumble) ANYWAY back on track, EVEN IF you had that situtation, it could be easily countered if you went after the CC first, one beacon, half your team to guard PG half to guard/build/weld in marine base. which is why if you are at MS when they are hive rushing, typically, #1, Obs to remove beacon, #2 arms lab or other tech to hurt them,,, Arms lab can be game killing if you can continue to kill the marine base after all the marines are dead because they got level 0 weap and armor. EG. one fade at MS can kill the obs, then armslab and then marines. but this only typically happens if the hive stays up, because if the hive goes down, TYPICALLY all the aliens are dead and then the marines just power build a remote obs, beacon, problem semi solved.

    Basically, what it really comes down to is how long it'd take to kill a hive verses how long it'd take to kill a comm chair, and frankly, hives die a lot faster than comm chairs (6 marnies with 8 shots = 8160 damage on a 7000 hp hive verses 4 skulks biting for a LONG time, quite frankly, i don't feel like finding out how long because damage calculator is down, but i know it'd take longer than to kill the hive, how do i know, because one alien biting the comm chair with adrenaline verses one marine with a LMG! in combat can kill a hive faster than that skulk can kill the comm chair, and that INCLUDES reloading, where as 6 marines shooting 8 shots into a hive, they don't gotta reload before the hive is dead.)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Killing the CC during a hive assault.

      8 bites per bar at 20 bars = 160 bites, or roughly 45 seconds 2 skulks. Memory serving, with rough estimates.

      4 skulks puts that at roughly 25 seconds. 6 marines kill a hive in roughly what, 10-15 seconds assuming all goes well?
      a.k.a. NinjaPirateAssassin
      Celibacy is not Hereditary.
      Everybody should believe in something - I believe I'll have another drink.
      Happiness is like wetting your pants, everyone can see it but only you can feel the warmth.
      Flying is easy, Just throw yourself at the ground and miss!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Killing the CC during a hive assault.

        1 marine with level 3 shottie can kill a hive in 40 seconds, thats including reload times, 6 marines don't need to reload, but still, 40/6 is deadly enough. (7 seconds and a beacon costs 3 seconds). what are the chances you taking down that cc before they kill your hive and beacon? very low, even if you did, what are the chances of them simply dropping another CC before the first one goes down? simply accomplishing some bought time, verses a lost hive. ugly tradeoff i'd say, even if you did manage to kill the cc without another being dropped.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Killing the CC during a hive assault.

          Maybe I missed mentioning this or something but this is meant to work during a game in which the marines have relocated. Meaning that in taking out the chair the commander has to walk the entire distance or beacon his team to save his chair. The relocation part is essential for this to not suck. Because if he/she chooses not to beacon and just anticipates being killed or walking back, then there is an opening in which there is no commander present to notify his team that the aliens are infact assaulting the base. The plan has only one shot to succeed or fail because after the chair is gone in the remote area the commander is always in the chair in the new base and therefor will most certainly call back his team when he sees more than 1 alien attacking.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Killing the CC during a hive assault.

            Killing the CC is a waste of time. You're talking about taking away their commander for maybe 15-20 seconds, at the cost of a very large amount of alien manpower just when they need it the most. If you throw your skulks away like that during a serious assault you WILL lose the hive, and they'll just have their comm back again in no time. Even if you are able to defend the hive with only a couple players, it would be much more productive for the remaining skulks to take down nodes around the map or just to rush the relocated base. You seem to be running on the assumption that marines become completely powerless as soon as their commander is out of the chair, which just isn't the case. Sorry, but with the CC's absurd amount of HP I don't see any real benefit to this strategy.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Killing the CC during a hive assault.

              It just ain't worth the time, if the comm chair is nearly dead already, at best MAYBE.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Killing the CC during a hive assault.

                you're really better off rushing the upgrades and the like, 1-2 skulks tops, to try and help buy time against the rush. shotty rushers suddenly going 0/0 might give you enough time to kill them before the hive goes.
                a.k.a. NinjaPirateAssassin
                Celibacy is not Hereditary.
                Everybody should believe in something - I believe I'll have another drink.
                Happiness is like wetting your pants, everyone can see it but only you can feel the warmth.
                Flying is easy, Just throw yourself at the ground and miss!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Killing the CC during a hive assault.

                  What I suggest about this is mainly that marines do not get a warning that their base is under attack like the aliens do "our hive is under attack." And in taking the commander out of the chair the marines get no advanced warning that their base is being raided. In making the commander walk I am trying to buy time for the surprise attack to either force the marines to stop their assault or lose their base if they find out whats happening. Biggest element is surprise because the marines don't get a warning except for each other and their commander, hence the killing of the CC and making the commander walk, a commander without a chair is not a commander so he/she gets no warning that their base is under attack and then cannot warn their team.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Killing the CC during a hive assault.

                    Lets go through this step by step. 8V8 Marines rush Alien hive. Two aliens counter and rush MS comm chair (not relocation comm chair). 4 aliens or so continuesly try and prevent the rush, adding ~20 seconds to the time it takes to kill the hive. It also takes ~5.8 seconds for 7 marines with LEVEL 0 shotguns to kill the hive. Lets say it takes 30 seconds, how many more seconds to kill everything in the hive, around 10, 40 seconds, build the node, 2 seconds, 42 seconds. to take down a hive, clear it, and build the node. 3 seconds later, the two skulks kill the comm chair.
                    Current status, around 4 aliens dead, 2 at MS getting shot at by commander, possibly killed, 2 able to rush marine relocation. And thats considering your team did things intelligently. So, currently, with the two aliens running to marine relocation, the rest of the marines are probably moving out of marine relocation (whoever died in the hive rush and whoever needs ammo because comm can't give ammo, and whoever felt like coming back, probably 3 marines total). so your two aliens, probably without leap, are now going to fight 3 marines soon to be 4.

                    Kenny, i don't think under most cercumstances that'd it work out too well.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Killing the CC during a hive assault.

                      Killing a CC is worthless at anypoint in the game unless marines have no other buildings, or the only person alive is the comm and marines can't spawn in.

                      edit: It's because it takes too much time you can kill more than 1/2 the marine base in the time it takes to kill the cc.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Killing the CC during a hive assault.

                        The only time something such as this would be useful is if the commander is highly inexperienced, otherwise 2 hotkeys and a click to drop a backup CC will foil your plan. Far more damage can be done by hitting non-replacable base structures like the advanced armory. This sets marine tech back nearly 3 minutes. The proto lab would be another top structure to hit, as well as the arms lab. The idea is to punish the marine team for attacking the hive, it's an opportunity cost they have to pay in order to kill it. This is of course if you have more than one hive, as any intelligent commander will just keep hitting the only alien hive no matter what happens at base.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Killing the CC during a hive assault.

                          Guys, you keep saying "attack other stuff," when his first post says the plan is for a relocate?

                          Would the base not be empty save the CC?
                          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Killing the CC during a hive assault.

                            If thats the case its still a waste of time. It takes too long for 1 skulk to take the cc down and if you have more than 3 skulks it leaves the hive less defended. Even if you get it down and the comm was in there he will be spawning back in shortly, why waste 30+ seconds of killing a CC when the comm is only out for like 12 seconds or less. Plus any good comm would have recycled the old CC.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Killing the CC during a hive assault.

                              On a relocation, attacking the CC might, I repeat *Might* be something you'd do if you were crazy or bored, because for reasons unknown the Voice-yap doesn't like to tell you important things like your chair is under attack sometimes. And, if persay your alien team really stunk, you *might* be able to take out the chair. At which point, game over man, but it's such a low percentage. Better off crippling marine tech. Especially because most NS games leave the base essentially undefended (maybe get the ip mined) and that upgrades are time and money. And marines are often perilously short on both. And if you're really lucky and the commander is paying attention to other stuff at the time, you might take out a structure while it's upgrading for a bonus.


                              In response to wyz. If the MS CC is still there, they're going to have a second chair at the relocation anyway, and they will get that built long before you take out the MS chair. So now you're spending a large amount of time taking out something that no longer holds any value. At best, if the relocation gets foiled, you could be camping MS to take out the Comm if he tries to build in such a circumstance, but that's about all.

                              What it DOES do is spam the commander with annoying messages, and foils his quick response (spacebar tap) because it'll constantly tap back to you munching on his backup chair, which can have it's advantages, but the rest of your team needs to be taking advantage of that fact.
                              a.k.a. NinjaPirateAssassin
                              Celibacy is not Hereditary.
                              Everybody should believe in something - I believe I'll have another drink.
                              Happiness is like wetting your pants, everyone can see it but only you can feel the warmth.
                              Flying is easy, Just throw yourself at the ground and miss!

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X