Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Squad Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Squad Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

    Hi everyone,

    Iím part of a small design team and weíve been discussing the idea of a squad level tactical game. We wanted to come to players like yourselves, who have a ton of experience in the genre and learn from you. To that end, we came up with a few questions. It would be great to hear your thoughts on these questions:

    What was your favorite tactical squad game and why?

    What were the features of your favorite game that you would most want to see in any future tactical game - e.g. the setting, level of role playing, research tree, combat mechanics, graphics (although less likely nowadays)

    What were the features of successor games to your favorite game that you didnít like or other reasons why you donít believe that successor games have matched your favorite game to date?

    What are additional features that you would like to see in future squad level tactical games? Or what features would you love to borrow from existing squad level tactical games that you believe would make your favorite game even better?

    Could you recommend any games besides the Silent Storm, X-Com and Jagged Alliance series that you think we should try and get our hands on and play through.

    Do you know of any examples of modern games that just get this genre Ďrightí? If not, where did they go wrong?

    We know it's a lot of questions, but there is so much to discuss! We look forward to your responses. Also, if you prefer, feel free to get in touch with us via PM.

  • #2
    re: Squad Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

    ArmA2! Although, tactics on that go through all levels. Individual, buddy team, fireteam, squad, platoon... Also not entirely sure what you mean by squad. ArmA terms, squad being two fireteams (fireteam being 4 people) under command of a squad leader a-- I'll stop now.

    I like ArmA2 for it's tendancy to rip up and spit out lone wolfers, and the rewards it gives to people that work together, and therefore the teamwork and social side of that. Lots of mods, scripts etc to change the way the game flows. And the immersion! Om nom nom.

    Although, I guess it's not what you'd call 'squad level'. Actually, LuketheAndroid (or whatever he calls himself on the forums) described it as an RTS, where all the characters (on your side) are players), if you can break from the ideal that RTS games need to be top-down and you need to be able to see everything.


    Edit: What's a research tree?

    Pepper

    "If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly." David Hackworth

    Comment


    • #3
      re: Squad Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

      Arma2 -- Because I`m not 12

      I mean Because its a Military Simulator for mature gamers
      The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd.

      Comment


      • #4
        re: Squad Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

        VBS2,ARMA2,ARMA1,VBS1. In that order.

        TGU InstructorTG Pathfinder

        Former TGU Dean ∑ Former ARMA Admin ∑ Former Irregulars Officer

        "Do not seek death. Death will find you. But seek the road which makes death a fulfillment." - Dag Hammarskjold

        Comment


        • #5
          re: Squad Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

          Arma2






          "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

          Comment


          • #6
            ARMA2 with ACE MOD and PR:ARMA
            sigpic

            Former Pathfinder
            Former ARMA Admin
            Former ARMA TGU instructor
            Former TGU Headmaster
            Current Noob
            Im also pretty bad at World of Tanks -

            Comment


            • #7
              re: Squad Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

              Poor guy, coming in and getting ambushed by ArmA.

              Pepper

              "If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly." David Hackworth

              Comment


              • #8
                re: Squad Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

                Appreciate the responses guys! I think we needed to be clearer in our original post about what we definitely knew we wanted the game to be like:

                Squad level - i.e. the player controls 1 to 12 individual troops against an unspecified number of enemies.
                Turn-based - one side goes, than the other side goes (or potentially a Frozen Synapse system where turns are resolved simultaneously, but these favors multiplayer play, which we do not believe we will be including in our game)
                Isometric view - just because we like it, and for good old times. Plus our current project is full isometric hex based TBS, so our artists and programmer have enough experience with it.
                Single-player - we just don't have the technical capability at the moment to implement multiplayer effectively, at least not on the scale we'd want to implement it (i.e. large networked games).

                So while we're definitely open to borrowing ideas from FPS type squad games and the like this is the general look and feel we're going for.

                With that in mind, could you tell us a bit more about why each of you loved ArmA? Was it the multiplayer, cooperative aspect? The realism? Would any of you be interested in trying out different settings - like a futuristic sci-fi setting, or is it more the military simulation aspect of the game that you enjoy?

                Are there any features in the games that you think would translate into the type of single player isometric experience we've described above?

                Anything in particular you dislike about your games that you think could be improved??

                Comment


                • #9
                  re: Squad Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

                  In regards to a hex-based TBS game, I think that a game like W:EE really hit the nail on the head for what should be expected of a RTS and it's not impossible to translate to a TBS. I'd say do some in-depth research on "Wargaming" in general, including but not limited to the table-top style games like Warhammer 40k etc. Hard cover, morale, accuracy rolls, save rolls, etc. all need to be resolved automatically and not part of the play experience but need to be behind the scenes working constantly. As far as research trees, I would again say to research tabletop games, since that is what TBS emulate.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    re: Squad Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

                    Originally posted by pleb View Post
                    With that in mind, could you tell us a bit more about why each of you loved ArmA? Was it the multiplayer, cooperative aspect? The realism? Would any of you be interested in trying out different settings - like a futuristic sci-fi setting, or is it more the military simulation aspect of the game that you enjoy?
                    Sci-fi could work for me, too. As long as it was hard sci-fi. I guess that's sort of bordering on some sort of cross-breed of Battlefield 2142 and ArmA (ACE)? Main bit I love of ArmA is the multiplayer, and the co-operation between players that comes with it. Even if you're in the game purely for your own survival, said survival depends on the survival of others - so even then, you need to work as a team. Safety in numbers.

                    Adding 'realism' adds complexity. Almost everything in the following paragraph refers to the ACE mod for ARmA. Fer example, bullet and rocket balistics are modeled, overpressure from heavy weapons, combat deafness from too much loud noise (can be avoided to an extent by earplugs in-game). There's also weapon overheating - you can't just hold down fire and shoot everything without your gun eventually dying on you (automatic riflemen and machinegunners may carry a spare barrel to 'fix' this). There's also equipment weight - you need to pick what you carry, or you won't be able to jog to your objective without collapsing from exhaustion en-route. Sometimes you'll need to share equipment weight - a soldier carrying a heavy Anti-Tank weapon may not be able to carry more than two rockets in their inventory without going over the magical 30kg gear weight (rockets typically weighing around 6-8kg each). However, they can ask nicely for someone else to carry some rockets for them, so they don't run out so quickly on the field. Same goes for machinegunners - heavy weapons with heavy ammunition, so share the weight. On the topic of AT weaponry, most have backblast - a wave of ouch that goes out the back end of the launcher as you fire it (the force that fires teh rocket forwards has to go somewhere). Standing in this backblast hurts, and can even lead to character death - therefore befire firing, you need to verbally warn those around you that you are about to do so, and they also need to let you know when your backblast area is clear. It adds layers of complexity and logistics, communication and support between players.

                    Pepper

                    "If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly." David Hackworth

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      re: Squad Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

                      To weigh in from the non-ArmA side (not that there's anything wrong with ArmA, mind you--just a different perspective), I really enjoyed Battlefield 2142's squad-based play. Six-person squads worked extremely well for tactical movement and support, and the fact that each team had a commander to help coordinate strategic movements really helped. Not to mention the fact that the commander had destructible assets, like UAV cover, motion scans, and orbital bombardments at his/her disposal, which--if used properly--could make or break a round. Add built-in squad-level and squad-leader-to-commander comms and you have a recipe for cooperative goodness.

                      I'm not entirely sure how much of that would translate to a turn-based game, though I'm sure you could still implement a chain of command type structure if you're working toward something cooperative. You also mentioned single player only, which takes a lot of the best aspects of some of the tactical FPS games out of the loop. If you're not finding information here that helps, you might try posting in some of the game-specific forums for the turn-based or single-player games, though the majority of TG is based around cooperative multiplayer.

                      You might also have a look at the Rainbow Six games for an example of squad play in a single player game. There are at least a few levels where the player is able to direct a four-man squad of NPC's as the level progresses, having them do things like clear a room prior to the player entering.

                      Good luck!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        re: Squad Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

                        Since our game is single player, how important is a linear storyline vs. a branching plot vs. just doing random mission after random mission (with some reward at the end that lets you buy more kit for your team and the eventual goal just being to amass more kit/reputation).

                        We think story is important. It gives context to the player's actions. Part of what made UFO:EU so cool was that even though you were running these "random" missions, you could then unravel the mystery of why you were being attacked and eventually use that to attack Cydonia. We're also toying with the idea of a Wing Commander Privateer based setup, where missions are offered to freelancers to take on, and we would then take on the missions. The story would come in the form of the context of the worlds in which those missions take place. Maybe there's an ongoing rebellion, and you're assisting either side - maybe there's a massive colonizing spree in one sector and you help to "sterilize" certain sectors by removing the native species.

                        What we're struggling with is how we can use the WCP type missions, but still give the player a reason to continue taking on missions. On a simple level, it's that you get credits for completing a mission, which can be used to hire new soldiers, or conduct research, or buy new weaponry. But what's the point in continuing on a more abstract scale? To be the biggest merc leader of all? To have the game end by X date and you're judged based on your score up to that point?

                        Would love to hear your opinions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          re: Squad Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

                          Personally love a story. For me, voice acting comes above graphics in priority for games. I'd post more, but 3am, so meh.

                          Pepper

                          "If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly." David Hackworth

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Squad Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

                            As most users said, ArmA 2 is best for squads etc.
                            But for tactics? No game can be the best for that, only the players.
                            I think I can say, I was very lucky to play with the TG players during my duration,
                            Before I came to TG I was playing in a much smaller server of 3-4 players, no real tactics like here,

                            However, on other such games like Call of duty, Battlefield etc, whilst people say they are for kids etc due to the lack of teamwork, the same rules apply there. You have to be on a good squad, a good team to enjoy the game and play it like it should be played, it's the only way to actually, dominate.

                            So, no matter what game you play, it all matters on who you play with.
                            "War is not about what's right, It's about what's left"
                            "There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing Innocent people"
                            "If we don't end war, War will end us"

                            Comment

                            Connect

                            Collapse

                            TeamSpeak 3 Server

                            Collapse

                            Advertisement

                            Collapse

                            Twitter Feed

                            Collapse

                            Working...
                            X