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  • Electronics (and some secret science)

    I have recently become addicted to a line of thinking that I cannot share with you.

    That line of thinking has led me to some questions that google cannot answer for me.

    I took electronics in school... but soon forgot all I learned when I got into computers. I need to know if there are people here that I can talk to privately that know a lot about electronic devices. I need to generate RF safely and without disturbing the FCC. The signal is regarded as HF, I believe. I need to better understand what difference the power behind that frequency makes, etc.

    There's a ton of things I have questions about, and I need answers to them discretely.

    If you're a radio guy, or just an electronics guy... or an FCC guy... whatever.... let me know.

    Mom
    Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
    Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

    You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
    Forever Perplexed

  • #2
    Re: Electronics (and some secret science)

    *cough*

    Sounds like you're wanting to know how to use amateur radio on HF without being intercepted by the FCC. Suffice to say that the FCC has the equipment and technical expertise to triangulate and monitor any communications of significance. Significant communications would be anything powerful enough to be picked up far enough away to be useful.

    I'm a radio guy, and an electronics guy, but not an FCC guy.

    "Everytime I read your posts I do it with Morgan Freeman's voice in my head as if he is narrating your life" - Aimed

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Electronics (and some secret science)

      No, no. Not for communication purposes. I need to better understand exactly how to use RF without interfering with communications in my local environment. I know it's possible, I'm just not sure how to go about it on an amateur level.

      There's more to it than that. Long story short, I've got an idea... and I think my idea may be huge. So, I have to be very guarded with what I say.. not so much because I don't trust you but for the sheer fact that it's online.

      Basically, I need to generate a radio frequency with a certain wattage behind it without getting in trouble. I'm not trying to broadcast a signal over long distances or anything of the sort. This is strictly very, very local.

      So, I've done some research... and I've learned that my frequency falls within the ISM range. Does that mean it's free to use? Do I need a license? Etc.

      Mom
      Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
      Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

      You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
      Forever Perplexed

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Electronics (and some secret science)

        So, I've done some more research.

        It looks like I can freely use ISM bands without any permission?

        Do you know if that is correct? Basically, my frequency requirements fall in the lower end of the ISM frequencies available to me. It's nothing major, certainly not getting anywhere near WiFi or wireless phone frequencies. Am I safe to assume that if I make an RF generator and assign it the wattage I need and the frequency I need, I will not get in any trouble because that frequency is within the ISM band? Or does that band vary based on the wattage I apply to the frequency? How far off my mark am I?

        Mom
        Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
        Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

        You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
        Forever Perplexed

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Electronics (and some secret science)

          The trouble that I'm having is finding resources that dictate whether or not I can use this frequency at a specific wattage in a local environment. I cannot find any resources beyond things relating to wireless communication. I am not at all interested in broadcasting or communicating... or using these frequencies anywhere other than a very, very local environment. To be more specific, assume I want to try to create a microwave with this frequency. I don't, but that's a good depiction of the locality I'm looking for here.

          Mom
          Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
          Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

          You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
          Forever Perplexed

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Electronics (and some secret science)

            Have you tried contacting the FCC directly and talking with someone there?
            "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln
            ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Electronics (and some secret science)

              As usual, the most obvious answer is likely the best.

              Thanks.

              Mom
              Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
              Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

              You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
              Forever Perplexed

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Electronics (and some secret science)

                Or, I was going to suggest some old local ham (amateur radio operator).
                "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Electronics (and some secret science)

                  Yeah. I've posted on several forums for more information relating to this, and I'm not getting any good responses. I don't think many people mess with the ISM band outside of corporations. Maybe I'm wrong... but I think contacting the FCC is the best idea here.

                  At least I will know for sure that /these/ are the rules.

                  Thanks guys. I'll post here if I have more questions during this project. I'm sure I'll run into some more issues, probably more technical that you guys will be more interested in. Lol.

                  Mom
                  Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                  Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                  You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                  Forever Perplexed

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Electronics (and some secret science)

                    The only HF bands that are part of the ISM worldwide allocation are: 13.553MHz-13.567MHz and 26.957MHz-27.283 MHz

                    What transmission mode do you intend to use? FM? AM? USB/LSB? Spread Spectrum? Digital?

                    "Everytime I read your posts I do it with Morgan Freeman's voice in my head as if he is narrating your life" - Aimed

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Electronics (and some secret science)

                      Now you're getting into research that I'm not sure about. I very, very vaguely remember RF generators from school, and until the interwebs and my ancient books refresh my memory, I can't answer that question.

                      I can tell you, again, that I'm not planning on transmitting across long distances at all... I only need the signal to interact with something directly in front of it...

                      Mom
                      Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                      Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                      You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                      Forever Perplexed

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Electronics (and some secret science)

                        Well, consider these points:

                        - Your classic Linksys WRT54G 802.11g router transmits 79 mW (.079 watts) of power at 2.4GHz in the ISM band.
                        - The rule of thumb for ISM band usage is to use the minimum amount of power required to accomplish what you need.
                        - The FCC is fairly lenient on unlicensed users of the ISM band as long as they don't interfere with the licensed applications and devices. This is called "secondary use".

                        You mentioned that you needed an HF signal. Why do you specifically need HF? HF is 3MHz-30MHz, VHF is 30MHz-300MHz, and UHF is 300MHz to 3000MHz. HF also has the interesting properties of getting atmospheric skip, which is why it's popular with amateur radio for worldwide use.

                        Before you say "Oh, but I'll be running low enough power it won't matter". The current long-distance low power record is held by KL7YU and W7BVV using one micro-watt over a distance of 1,650 mile 10-meter (28MHz) path between Alaska and Oregon in 1970. This wouldn't happen using VHF or UHF frequencies because they do not "skip" under anything but extremely rare and unique circumstances.

                        Perhaps this might be helpful.

                        "Everytime I read your posts I do it with Morgan Freeman's voice in my head as if he is narrating your life" - Aimed

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