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  • online gun dealers

    Could anyone recommend any large reputable online gun dealers that have wide selections and good prices?

  • #2
    Re: online gun dealers

    What kind of gun?

    Keep in mind that if you buy from out of state, you'll still have to go through a local gun dealer for the actual transfer...
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    • #3
      Re: online gun dealers

      http://www.gunbroker.com/


      Thats a great place to look for a fire arm of any kind. But yes if you buy it from that site you have to go to a dealer to get it shipped and picked up. Has to be a FFL dealer or FFL holder so all the paper work is legit
      that sounds like a good idea trooper.
      -Vulcan

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      • #4
        Re: online gun dealers

        Originally posted by Trooper View Post
        http://www.gunbroker.com/


        Thats a great place to look for a fire arm of any kind. But yes if you buy it from that site you have to go to a dealer to get it shipped and picked up. Has to be a FFL dealer or FFL holder so all the paper work is legit
        I can legally buy a gun from someone else in Texas and not have to do any kind of paperwork. Best to check your state's laws on this. Interstate sales always need to go through a dealer, though...
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        • #5
          Re: online gun dealers

          Right. On that site i think most state dealer but im sure you could do that whole exchange deal.
          that sounds like a good idea trooper.
          -Vulcan

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          • #6
            Re: online gun dealers

            Yeah I know, I already have a local FFL that I plan to do exchanges with. As for the gun, I'm still trying to decide but I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with an ar-15, though I plan on building my own so I'm looking for lower receivers, and I'm also looking for something in .40 sw. I know of gunbroker, but I'd prefer to buy from a place where I don't have to bid on an auction (though I know they also have a buy it now listing option). Scared of being ripped off.

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            • #7
              Re: online gun dealers

              Here is a bunch of info that someone graciously compiled all together, and will hopefully help you decide more on what you want or need.

              Originally posted by rob_s at m4carbine.net



              Bolt Carrier Group
              The first six items listed on the new chart pertain to the bolt and/or carrier, commonly referred to as the "Bolt Carrier Group" or BCG. This is the part that moves back and forth in the upper receiver chambering fresh rounds, extracting and ejecting empty rounds, and generally ensuring that your rifle or carbine operates as it should. As such, in terms of reliability, the BCG is the heart of the gun, and having as high a quality BCG that is assembled correctly out of the correct materials and which has been properly checked for flaws is key to the continued reliability of the AR-platform firearm. The first four items refer to the bolt itself, while the remaining two deal with the carrier.

              Shot Peened Bolt
              There are many resources available online as to the exact process and how it affects the structure of the part at the molecular level, but essentially the goal is to increase the resistance of metal to fatigue. The bolt, in the performance of it's duties, is put under a considerable amount of stress as the gun fires. Ensuring that this part lasts as long as possible is key to the continued reliability of the firearm over time, and increasing the resistance of the part to fatigue increases it's service life.
              More information on shot peening can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_peening

              High Pressure Test (HPT) Bolt
              This is also sometimes referred to as "proof loading" or "proof firing". Essentially it is a test fire of the bolt (and barrel) in order to subject the part to a pressure that could cause it to fail in use. This is a preparatory step in order to prepare the part for the next step. Not all companies perform this step and prefer to "batch test" their bolts and barrels, or to test a representative sample of each batch.
              More information on proof testing can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_test

              Magnetic Particle Inspection (MPI) Bolt
              Like shot peening, there are resources available online as to what the exact process is and how it works, but the intended purpose is to check for surface cracks in the part that may not be detectable by the naked eye and that may have been caused by the HPT. Not all companies perform this step and prefer to "batch test" their bolts and barrels, or to test a representative sample of each batch. This is a crucial step following the HPT in order to observe the results.
              More information on MPI can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneti...cle_inspection

              Black Extractor Spring Insert
              The crucial element here is, in fact, the 5-coil extractor spring which the black insert indicates as there is some debate as to the actual chemical or physical properties of the insert itself as compared to the rifle version which comes with the 4-coil spring and is blue. The shorter gas system of the carbine makes for a sooner an more violent operation of the BCG which can cause the extractor on the bolt to jump over the rim of the case and not properly extract the empty case. To some degree this can be mitigated by gas port size, but beefing up the spring tension to cause the extractor to clamp more tightly on the case ensures proper function.
              More information on extractor springs and inserts can be found here http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=14310

              M16 Bolt Carrier
              The M16 bolt carrier serves two functions. The first is that the firing pin is fully shrouded so that the hammer is cocked by the carrier and not the firing pin itself. The second is that the M16 bold carrier is heavier and therefore increases "lock time" (or the amount of time that the empty case after the primer is struck by the firing pin) which aids in extraction. The heavier carrier also reduces the felt recoil impulse which in turn reduces wear and tear on the other internal parts of the carbine.
              More information on M16 vs. AR15 carriers can be found here http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=14534

              Properly Staked Gas Key
              The gas key on top of the bolt carrier is the part that the gases (which have been re-directed through the gas port, then the gas block or front sight base, and into the gas tube) impact on in order to push back on the carrier, unlock the bolt and cycle the firearm. As such it is under tremendous pressure and is critical to the continued operation of the firearm. The key is held on to the top of the carrier by two screws, typically allen but sometimes torx, that are tightened to a specified torque. After tightening the metal of the key should be "staked" in such a way as to prevent the screws from loosening. In order for the staking to perform it's job properly it must deform the metal of the key sufficiently to make contact with, and perhaps even deform a bit, the attachment screws. Use of Locktite is not sufficient, as virtually all versions of Locktite are weakened by heat.
              More information on staking of carrier keys can be found here http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6993

              Barrel
              The barrel rivals the bolt in terms of how critical it is to the long term reliability and functionality, as well as accuracy of the firearm. Clearly, accuracy may be sacrificed to some degree in favor of longevity in terms of a chromoly and chrome-lined barrel. The features that are included in the barrel section, the next eight items on the chart, are all related to the longevity of the barrel as well as the reliability of the firearm, with some features being somewhat optional as they pertain to use of certain projectiles and other shooter-defined needs.

              Milspec Barrel Steel
              No term used in the chart has elicited more of a negative reaction than "milspec". As such every effort has been made to remove it from The Chart wherever possible. In the case of the barrel, however, it remains. The short version of the story is that barrels are typically made from two grades of chromoly steel, 4140 and 4150, with the latter being a slightly higher grade that withstands heat slightly better than the former. The long version involves very specific types of steel, much longer numbers, and is in fact generally considered to be of little consequence. There are, however, other grades and/or types of steel that meet or exceed the properties of 4150 and are therefore acceptable.
              More information on barrel steel can be found here http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7263

              High Pressure Test (HPT) Barrel
              This means the same thing, and is done for the same reason, as the HPT of the bolt.

              Magnetic Particle Inspection (MPI) Barrel
              This means the same thing, and is done for the same reason, as the MPI of the bolt.

              Chrome Chamber and Bore
              Chrome-lining of the chamber and bore serve to protect both from corrosion due to the heat of combustion of the gunpowder in the bullet as well as "neglect" in humid or other harsh environments. The chamber and bore are directly related to the accuracy potential of a firearm, and damage to either in the form of pitting will negatively impact the accuracy potential. The trade off is that chrome is often applied unevenly, at the microscopic level, meaning that it may negatively affect the accuracy potential in and of itself. The potential for damage due to other factors is generally considered greater than the small amount of uneven application, and so chrome-lining is generally considered desirable. No, it cannot be added after the fact as barrels intended for chrome-lining are first slightly overbored with the lining then reducing the internal diameter to the proper dimension.

              5.56 Chamber
              There is a common misconception that .223 and 5.56 are the same thing. They are not. 5.56 is often loaded to a higher pressure, among other things, which is the most critical issue. There are other dimensional differences pertaining to throat, bullet seat, etc. but what it comes down to in practical terms is that you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 chamber but the reverse is not a good idea. Generally speaking the barrel will be marked with one or the other but unfortunately those markings cannot always be trusted. If you think you may ever shoot 5.56 ammunition it is a good idea to get a 5.56 chamber from a maker that can be trusted.
              More information about chamber dimensions can be found here http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm

              1:7 Rifling Twist
              Another common misconception is that bullet weight determines the optimal rifling twist. This is incorrect in that it is actually bullet (projectile) length that should be used to determine the twist rate. Generally speaking, however, the heavier bullets are also longer so while technically incorrect it is common to say that a 1:7 twist is more desirable for the heavier 75 and 77 grain projectiles. Therefore, choosing a barrel twist really comes down to first choosing your projectile weight, and more correctly, length. If you work for a department that mandates or issues a certain ammunition then this should be your guide when choosing a rifling twist rate. A good rule of thumb is that 1:9 will stabilize bullets in the 45 to 62 grain range, and 1:7 will stabilize bullets in the 55 to 77 grain range. Like all things this is not a given, and any barrel should be tested with the intended ammunition to ensure the desired results are achieved.
              More information about rifling twist and ammunition selection can be found here http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm

              M4 Feedramps
              M4 feedramps refers to the feed ramps in the barrel extension being matched up to feed ramps cut into the upper receiver. The alternative is Rifle feedramps which stop at the end of the barrel extension and do not continue into the upper receiver. Longer projectiles, soft-point projectiles, and carbines with faster cyclic rates tend to benefit from the extended M4 feedramps. There are no known downsides to having the extended feedramps.
              More information on feedramps can be found here http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=193

              "F" Height Front Sight Base
              Front sight bases come in two basic varieties. One is the front sight base intended for use on carbines and rifles with fixed A2 uppers,the other (The "F") is intended for carbines with flattop uppers. In order to ensure compatibility with the various aftermarket rear back up iron sights, the "F" is more desirable. Not all "F" height front sight bases are marked with the "F" (LMT for example), and some that are marked are not true to the correct height.
              More information on front sight bases can be found here http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=14753

              Taper Pins at Front Sight Base (FSB)
              A minor issue, but taper pins hold the front sight base better and tighter than a straight pin. Some makers attempt to make up for this by using slightly oversized straight pins that can be extremely difficult to remove.
              More information on taper pins can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taper_pin

              Parkerize under FSB
              Parkerizing under the front sight base (or FSB) is done by very few makers. Most prefer to attach the base to the barrel and then parkerize the assembly as a whole. If parkerized as an assembly, both the outside of the barrel under the rings of the base and the inside of the rings themselves do not get the protective coating of the parkerizing process. There have been some reports of these parts rusting in the unprotected area, but it is unlikely that rust in these locations will affect the function of the carbine.

              Double Heat Shield Handguards
              Obviously this is not an issue of the end user intends to replace the handguards with an aftermarket part, but the proper M4 handguards are larger and contain a dual-layer of aluminum heat shields inside each half. The added diameter and extra shield serve to keep the shooter's hands cooler over prolonged periods of fire.

              Receiver Extension
              The receiver extension is the part of the rifle, often mistakenly called the "buffer tube" that extends out from the back of the lower receiver. It not only holds the stock on the rifle but also does act as a tube for the buffer and bolt carrier to move back and forth inside of when the rifle cycles. This receiver extension is held in place by a castle nut which also holds the receiver end plate in plate, which in turn holds a spring and detent in place inside the lower.

              1.14" Diameter Receiver Extension
              This is often referred to as the "milspec" receiver extension. The alternative to a "milspec" receiver extension is the "civilian" or "commercial" receiver extension. There is some debate as to whether or not the milspec extension is actually stronger or "better" than the commercial, but for most users the real choice comes down to availability of aftermarket stocks. Some companies, like Magpul with their CTR stock, offer versions for both extensions, but many do not. If you know that your intended stock is available for the commercial receiver extension or if you are happy with the stock your rifle comes with it is most likely not an issue. If, however, you want to change the stock or just keep your options open then the milspec extension is preferred.
              Dimensions for a "milspec" receiver extension can be found here http://www.magpul.com/pdfs/buffertube-Milspec-M4.pdf
              Dimensions for a "commercial" receiver extension can be found here http://magpul.com/pdfs/buffertube-civilian-M4.pdf

              Staked Castle Nut
              The castle nut is the nut that holds the receiver extension in to the lower receiver and prevents it from backing out. If it backs out, the buffer retainer spring inside the lower can come loose, which in turn can render the carbine inoperable. The best case scenario if your castle nut comes loose is that your stock becomes loose which is also not a good thing. Calling it a "staked castle nut" is somewhat of a misnomer as the part that is staked is actually the receiver endplate. The castle nut itself has small notches on the forward side, and large notches to the rear. The large notches are used for tightening, and the small notches are there so that the receiver endplate can be staked to displace metal into the notch on the castle nut, thereby keeping it from turning. With the proper castle nut wrench the staking can be easily overcome to change out the parts, but without the tool the nut will not come loose. Locktite, once again, is not a viable solution as this part can heat up and Locktite is weakened by heat.
              More information on staking of castle nuts can be found here http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6994

              "H" Buffer
              The buffer is the weighted part that moves back and forth inside the receiver extension when the rifle cycles. It is held forward by a long spring called the buffer spring, and is kept from moving too far forward by the buffer retainer pin (which is in turn held in place by the receiver extension, see "staked castle nut" above). The buffer and spring provide resistance to the bolt carrier as it cycles and the spring then pushes the bolt and carrier back into battery after the empty case is ejected. A heavier buffer can increase lock time (see "M16 bolt carrier" above) which reduces wear and tear on parts and increases reliability in carbines. The heavier buffer can also decrease felt recoil. It is, however, possible to install a buffer that is too heavy which will not allow the rifle to cycle properly. Typically the "H" buffer is used on carbines with barrels 10-16" with carbine (7.0) length gas tubes.
              More information on buffers can be found here http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5136

              .154" Diameter Fire Control Group (FCG) Pins
              Colt is the only maker of complete rifles that uses slightly oversized fire control group (trigger and hammer) pins to prevent the installation of M16 full-auto or burst parts from being installed in the lower. Virtually all aftermarket trigger makers (Timney, Geissele, McCormick, etc.) make trigger groups that utilize the larger pin size so finding aftermarket parts is a non issue. The odd-size pins do become an issue if you own rifles from Colt and other companies as the spare parts in question will not be interchangeable. In addition, finding the proper diameter pins, and the FCG parts they hold in place, for spares from any vendor other than Colt may prove difficult.


              Keep in mind, just because something doesn't have every single "X" marked, doesn't mean it's total junk. There are rifles with good a good balance of features and price. Some are obviously more lacking then others of course.

              If shooting rocks and dirt is your thing, and you only shoot a couple thousand rounds a year max, this chart might not matter that much to you. Just get whatever looks the best and is cheapest.

              You are also looking at a .40S&W, what attracts you to this caliber? There are many guns in .40, and you have many options. Tell us more about what you are hoping to do with it..
              Last edited by TurkishDelight; 07-16-2008, 08:39 PM.
              |TG-X|Turkish

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              • #8
                Re: online gun dealers

                That write up is really behind of the time, as relating to the companies. The info on parts is pretty decent though. There have been a lot of great improvements in the last couple years that are not covered in that graphic. You have the radically changed LMT, then you are missing several great manufacturers (POF, LWRC, Fulton Armorey, HK and others). Plus it never included the newest stuff on Gas Piston that makes a all a whole new ball game.

                Another thing to note, in the last couple years, the AR15 platform has had a huge transformation to include the 6.8SPC and .308 (7.62x39) and a couple other variants, it is not just .223 anymore.
                "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: online gun dealers

                  Originally posted by TheBigC View Post
                  That write up is really behind of the time, as relating to the companies. The info on parts is pretty decent though. There have been a lot of great improvements in the last couple years that are not covered in that graphic. You have the radically changed LMT, then you are missing several great manufacturers (POF, LWRC, Fulton Armorey, HK and others). Plus it never included the newest stuff on Gas Piston that makes a all a whole new ball game.

                  Another thing to note, in the last couple years, the AR15 platform has had a huge transformation to include the 6.8SPC and .308 (7.62x39) and a couple other variants, it is not just .223 anymore.
                  I don't think the author's intention was to cover EVERY single rifle or manufacturer, but the a few of the most common and/or well known DI AR-15 rifles and their makers. In that case, the chart is not outdated at all, and represents current information.

                  Piston guns are hard to compare because each company uses their own proprietery piston design. There is no "Spec" to compare it to. Nevermind that the LMT's piston design isn't out yet, and that the HK416 isn't available for civilian sale.
                  |TG-X|Turkish

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: online gun dealers

                    Originally posted by TheBigC View Post
                    That write up is really behind of the time, as relating to the companies. The info on parts is pretty decent though. There have been a lot of great improvements in the last couple years that are not covered in that graphic. You have the radically changed LMT, then you are missing several great manufacturers (POF, LWRC, Fulton Armorey, HK and others). Plus it never included the newest stuff on Gas Piston that makes a all a whole new ball game.

                    Another thing to note, in the last couple years, the AR15 platform has had a huge transformation to include the 6.8SPC and .308 (7.62x39) and a couple other variants, it is not just .223 anymore.
                    I'm going to go for the .223 because that seems to have the cheapest ammo available and is lighter.

                    As for my choice of .40 s&w, I think it gives a good balance between bullet weight and recoil, though not as good as 9mm in regards to magazine capacity. Compared to .45 acp or 9mm.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: online gun dealers

                      Originally posted by TurkishDelight View Post
                      I don't think the author's intention was to cover EVERY single rifle or manufacturer, but the a few of the most common and/or well known DI AR-15 rifles and their makers. In that case, the chart is not outdated at all, and represents current information.
                      Agreed that he did not include every manufacturer, but some of the companies are definitely putting out all new product since this diagram was published.

                      Originally posted by TurkishDelight View Post
                      Piston guns are hard to compare because each company uses their own proprietary piston design. There is no "Spec" to compare it to. Nevermind that the LMT's piston design isn't out yet, and that the HK416 isn't available for civilian sale.
                      That is very true as for the piston being very different by manufactures. They are really different so it would be tough. I would still love to see a side by side of performance and reliability though. One can dream.

                      As for LMT, want one, I got one!! Carl has been selling conversion kits for a a bit now (only in 5.56, not the 6.8, yet), but his he has been selling his complete Gas Piston for the MRP CQB since before the SHOT Show.



                      Originally posted by angrysniper View Post
                      I'm going to go for the .223 because that seems to have the cheapest ammo available and is lighter.

                      As for my choice of .40 s&w, I think it gives a good balance between bullet weight and recoil, though not as good as 9mm in regards to magazine capacity. Compared to .45 acp or 9mm.
                      I am totally with you on the 40. Great gun, it is a decent balance of power and capacity. As for the prices of ammo, damn is it getting expensive of late. Believe it or not, the 7.62 has been cheaper than the .223 at most places, unless you are buying non-reloadables. I would not recommend the 6.8 to anyone lately when it comes to price, they are costing around a buck a round!!


                      As for the overall topic of buying online, it can be tough. I am always hesitant to buy a gun unless it is from a reputable dealer (I personally know them) or the manufacturer. Now parts I have no issue buying online, but the overall gun is a different story. Most manufacturers will sell direct for comparable prices if you call them, plus it simply gives you piece of mind.
                      "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: online gun dealers

                        http://www.lightfighter.net

                        Better place to be asking stuff like this (scroll down the screen a little bit to find the proper forum). The knowledge base available there is fantastic. Do yourself a favor before posting, though: search the forums! Those guys over there can be a bit abrasive when you screw around.

                        Also, check into purchasing an AK-style rifle (but DO YOUR RESEARCH IF YOU PLAN TO BUY ONE, because there are some pretty crappy companies that will absolutely screw you over when it comes to Kalashnikovs and their seemingly-infinite copies). 7.62x39mm is almost always dirt cheap (relatively-speaking... $100 is $100, after all).

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