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Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

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  • Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

    I posted some info up in the RPG forums here but i have a feeling there are more kotor fans out there that don't read that forum.

    So i am bringing it here to get interested people involved with it as it begins. If you liked kotor then Star Wars: The Old Republic may interest you.

    www.swtor.com

    It's early still but atleast the game is announced and I'm hoping for some good things. I'll be one unhappy camper if they go the kid route with this game.


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  • #2
    re: Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

    Is this the MMO?


    Eh, MMOs have about as much to do with (REAL) RPGs as my foot has to do with the composition of the moon. This is nothing more than a shameless cash-in. Stats and gear doesn't make a game an RPG.

    Sadly, like Fallout 3, people are going to fall over themselves and lower their standards to declare this 'best RPG ever'...

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    • #3
      re: Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

      well it's either ai or your buddies, which do you prefer?

      MMO's are geared toward teamwork in the purest sense of the word. Many MMO's only allow you to achieve the greatest parts of the game through it.

      Your opinion of MMO's sounds unfounded and uninformed.

      Carry on though :)


      - -

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      • #4
        re: Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

        Are you seriously suggesting that a KOTOR-themed MMO - a single-player RPG - that people praised for its incredible storytelling is going to be 'superior' because I can play a facsimile of it with additional human drama?

        Let me repost what I wrote in another forum:

        MMOs are not about stories, they're about sucking your wallet dry. Unless you honestly think Lost is a compelling, deep example of top quality storytelling, expect to have what appears to be ridiculously high expectations smashed flat.

        You will not get KOTOR. You will not get Deus Ex. You will not get Baldur's Gate. You will not get ANYTHING resembling a REAL RPG out of this.

        It's an MMO, what else is there to say? They want to keep you playing for as long as possible, and they do that by pandering to basic, ridiculous human impulses. You're not going to keep playing it for the story, you're going to keep playing it so you can grind your Level 64 Jedi through the Geonosian Raid Instance to grab a [ForceMaster Jedi Robe +8] to kick Sith ass.

        This game will have nothing in common with KOTOR outside of name and setting. It's a shameless cash-in, and Bioware are not the developers they once were. I'm kind of ashamed at the buzz this announcement is generating, I though after the HUNDREDS OF LOUSY MMOS us PC gamers would've gotten a clue and let this genre die. That people are so willing to support the greediest most underdelivering and underhanded form of gaming is bewildering, to say the least.
        For what it's worth, RPGs are my favorite genre and what I think have offered the most out of gaming, and I'm rather critical of both their sad attempts that fall flat (Oblivion) or the weird misconception people have of what really makes an RPG an RPG. People seem to think a game with stats is an RPG, or a game that gives you an open world, or has XP, or something, when the truth is none of those make a game an RPG. MMOs are the worst offender because they suggest it is a pure RPG with the component of more people, when that couldn't be further from the truth.

        MMORPGs and CRPGs have NOTHING in common, and KOTOR is a CRPG.
        Last edited by Uranium - 235; 10-23-2008, 11:55 PM.

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        • #5
          re: Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

          So you're entire argument is based on them charging a monthly cost? Like i said unfounded and uninformed. that comes to 50 cents a day to play a game that's far more replayable than any single player game made. That is what MMO's are about. You get a fluid constant update to the game, content and story instead of paying for 50 games every year that you play typically once or twice.

          There is a reason that 30-40 million people atleast play MMO's to this day. That number is probably higher these days.

          Anyway this thread is not about your rant, so move along.


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          • #6
            re: Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

            Originally posted by Vulcan View Post
            So you're entire argument is based on them charging a monthly cost?
            You seriously think I'm complaining about the PRICE? Where the hell did you get that stupid idea?

            If you're not going to read my posts with an ounce of credible comprehension that don't even bother.

            30-40 million people play MMOs because 30-40 million people are suckers. You're one of them, and like them all, you're too much of a sucker to realize what the real deal is.

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            • #7
              re: Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

              Gonna have to side with the meat of Uranium's arguements (even if the point seems to have strayed a bit). KOTOR is a wonderful RPG where you get to actually feel like your actions have an impact on the world. They've expanded and evolved the cinematic aspects of RPGs with Jade Empire and Mass Effect, but I don't think Bioware will be able to hit just what makes a MMORPG good with what they do with a RPG.

              What makes a good RPG is that you actually feel like the role your character plays is important. With a MMORPG...not so much. MMORPGs have character evolution, but its along the lines of the third extra to the right of the main character on the camera pan on the third scene. You're never really the focus of the story and that's where Bioware might fall flat on. AoC tried to do the whole 'you're a hero! Honest!' bit and from playing the beta I know the feedback was mostly saying that its a flat feeling because you know that everyone else is being fed the same line.

              Besides, its a warning sign when the first look interview that Xplay did with Bioware about the 'announcement' (everyone was expecting it since it was leaked ages ago) the best thing they could say about it was how intuitive and intelligent your AI companions will be. Um..AI companions in an MMORPG? So you get to play with AI party members while other people play with AI party members instead of relying on real people. Huh
              My sanity is not in question...
              It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


              Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



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              • #8
                re: Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

                Heh, ironic, I saw several threads about TOR on several forums all posted within minutes of each other. I also got the official newsletter in my email inbox the same day too.

                To highlight Uranium's previous posts (perhaps a point he might not have addressed), a Star Trek enthusiast recently asked the lead project designer behind Star Trek: Online about how ST:O MMO might differ from the repetitively boringness of other MMOs like WoW and Guild Wars. The guy's response was "we'll make it interesting...explore planets...first-person shooter combined with space combat".

                To me that says: "It's going to a little better, but not a whole lot. You'll still find it repetitive and boring after a few weeks of non-stop play."
                |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
                TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
                Former 9th & 13th

                Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
                Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





                SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

                TG Primer and Rules

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                • #9
                  re: Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

                  This game will only work if Bioware can manage to completely reinvent the MMO genre. That means get rid of the grind, and giving us enough actual content to last months and ultimately years. (Grinding only exists to artificially extend the length of a game, I've had my fill of games with em) But if any company is able to meet this challenge, its Bioware.

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                  • #10
                    re: Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

                    Heh, I was looking through the SWTOR forums and was glad to find several JK players that post in a rather long thread requesting a "more realistic" saber combat system.

                    Would be nice to see that implemented. :)
                    |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
                    TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
                    Former 9th & 13th

                    Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
                    Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





                    SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

                    TG Primer and Rules

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      re: Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

                      Originally posted by Uranium - 235 View Post
                      30-40 million people play MMOs because 30-40 million people are suckers. You're one of them, and like them all, you're too much of a sucker to realize what the real deal is.
                      Originally posted by Tarenth
                      Besides, its a warning sign when the first look interview that Xplay did with Bioware about the 'announcement' (everyone was expecting it since it was leaked ages ago) the best thing they could say about it was how intuitive and intelligent your AI companions will be. Um..AI companions in an MMORPG? So you get to play with AI party members while other people play with AI party members instead of relying on real people. Huh
                      I'd agree, that in the most part, its a poor experience. I'm going to have to say here, though, that Eve, specifically, is just about the most compelling experience available in a computer game. It's certainly not for everyone, and its definitely got its fair share of problems. I haven't ever seen another game that even gets close to Eve in terms of role-playing, even if you don't have to speak like a participant at a medieval love parade.

                      Role Playing, in MMOs, is about storyline. If an MMO is sort of, well, a poor single player experience, well, what sort of role can you really play. Its just can you learn the tactics necessary to beat the mob, etc. If its a virtual world, where the story is the players, its a little different. A transcendent experience, as far as gaming goes. Its a bit difficult to access though, and, although Eve gets close, its sort of harsh and seems inaccessible unless you work for it.

                      This is much better than living a story someone else wrote, imo. So simply put, I disagree. I think that the games need to catch up with what people really want, which are virtual worlds, with some overarching conflict and competitive game play (as opposed to something like Second Life, which is a virtual world, but no conflict). Things like WOW, etc, give the competitive gameplay, without the world aspect. Once these catch on to the virtual world aspect, they will all be superior to single player RPGS, imo.

                      Also, console games have proven that the co-op form is a very compelling experience. Personally, I'd love to see some developers do something like a traditional KOTOR/Fallout game but as 4 player co-op. Think that would sell.
                      Do or do not, there is no try....
                      -- Yoda, Dagobah

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                      • #12
                        re: Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

                        I have played
                        EQ
                        EQ 2
                        WOW
                        Guild Wars
                        Cable
                        Maple Story (is that the right name?)
                        Eve
                        Anarchy Online
                        Star wars.


                        I would agree that NONE of them really have a good story line.
                        Sure, they try... but I'm betting that 90% of the people don't care about that. Unless you are on a roleplaying server, and possibly not even then. It is just that the story lines they put in are so shallow/limited. Not much real conversation - just some NPCs spouting stuff here and there.

                        Perhaps at higher level it is better... I've never gotten all that far. I think WOW I got a few characters into the 50's... mainly because of some close friends and belonging to the TG guild for a while. But even then, I eventually got bored. It could be my ADHD talking, but I just lost interest after a while.

                        Ever single game seemed to be grinding. I hate grinding. Sure, parting with fellow people CAN be nice... but it can also suck. And it doesn't have much to do with a story. It's just some people (either random or known) working together to grind something.

                        The closest 'story' I can think of was in WOW where you eventually marched down to the capital and fought some queen dragon she thing in the castle.. saw some TGs do that once. I was invovled for about 15 seconds before I was killed. It was cool, but I'm not sure how much story was actually involved. And given that it immediately went back to how it was before, it didn't give much of a feeling of accomplishment.

                        Perhaps in some of the MMOs that are war-like and the war determines things in the world. I know in star wars, that eventually the rebellion or the empire could control more stuff and make it harder for one side. But even then...

                        So I agree that there isn't near the story telling aspect. I agree that they definately put as much grinding in as possible - otherwise no one would keep playing forever. So I agree with his basic view, but not his rather hostile presentation of the view.

                        Edit: Opps, wasn't finished typing!

                        I'll probably play it at some point. I'm planing on playing star wars galaxies again after the house sells and our money situation becomes more fluid (two mortgage payments at once can be tight). We'll see how it goes.
                        "Sympathy means a lot, coming from Kulmar. I didn't think it was possible.
                        Good luck getting rid of your disease. If you're infected, though, stay away--I can't afford to be a zombie right now.
                        " Ednos


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                        • #13
                          re: Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

                          Originally posted by gunjunkie View Post
                          Personally, I'd love to see some developers do something like a traditional KOTOR/Fallout game but as 4 player co-op. Think that would sell.
                          You do get that in many MMO's now with group instances. 6 or 7 player co-op. But the smaller scale stuff would be better too. The difference is they don't confine it to a small world like most single player games. That's the going platform for MMO's. A huge world to play in and they build content into it for 1 player up to hundreds. You can't do that in a small world game. I think bioware will inject that full spectrum content and hence why they are also thinking about utilizing a companion type system much like padawans to help tell that story and give a personal feel to it.


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                          • #14
                            re: Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

                            There is a new trailer out detailing the basis for the story in the old republic mmo.

                            http://www.swtor.com/news/article/20090601_002

                            You can see more at our swtor forum.


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                            • #15
                              Re: Attention KOTOR fans: Star wars the old republic is coming!

                              The trailer deff game me a nerdgasm. I'm not optimistic about the game however.

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