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It's a slippery slope......

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  • It's a slippery slope......

    I dont believe I am the only one who has thought since the very first "Terminator" film came out, that it could become a VERY possible future outcome if technology developed at the pace it has.

    When UAV/RPV's (Unmanned Air Vehicle, Remote Piloted Vehicle) were in primary development in the mid 1980's, it was hard to believe that a link could be drawn between the extremely futuristic vision put forward in a hollywood movie.... However....

    Technology has indeed moved on, and pure surveillance UAV's have developed into unmanned combat systems, fully able to now take out a target, controlled now, not by just one pilot, but with the ability to be placed on a control network with autopilots, a "skynet" if you like!

    From air vehicles the development turned from robot bomb disposal tanks, to battlefield armed UGV's (Unmanned Ground Vehicle), to soldier protection systems and ultimately now a combat "exoskeleton's" for ground troops.

    The fateful progression down the slippery slope is well underway and like a moth to the flame, it seems the technologists (read profit seekers) seem hell bent on taking us down a path of inevitability with the latest little gem.....

    Thinkng robots.....
    http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/0...thics-war.html

    There is already development in Japan and other places of an organically created plasma for want of a better word that learns from results, ultimately able to process data faster in the future than a coventional chip. Again it's a small step to then consider such a thing as the first steps to an artificial brain.

    Scientists continue to push robotics at an ever increasing rate to create artificial eyes, new hearts, nanobots that can repair arteries, etc etc.....

    While I understand the good intention of many of these creations....the article above points out a very interesting debate... while it seems people are now creating robots with "ethics".... WHO.... is checking the ethics of the scientists????

    IBM are already championing "Watson" their stand-alone computer that can answer any Jeopardy question without a connection to the Internet... (Does anyone remember the 1983 film "Wargames" and a similar machine called "Joshua") ;)
    http://www.research.ibm.com/deepqa/

    Hollywood it seems, points out the painstakingly obvious that often does not seem to be discussed in the media...."yeah it's just a film"....may not be te case in the future..

    With the upcoming release of Terminator Salvation, it does indeed beg the question....

    How close are we to actually seeing a fully functional "Skynet" as depicted in the film's and is the technological development community, hell bent on taking us down this slippery slope...???

    Just a thought for your Monday morning.... ;)

    Let the debate begin.... JUMP!

    BD1
    BlackDog1




    "What we do in life... echoes in eternity!"

  • #2
    Re: It's a slippery slope......

    It is a very slippery slope. From my readings and watching documentaries on the technology, the current mandate still calls for human intervention for weapon deployment/use. The hollywood versions are always completely autonomous with all decisions. A good book on A.I. is http://www.amazon.com/Blondie24-Play.../dp/1558607838 and it discusses neural network programming that leads to "learning" software. I took a special topics class in underground that his idea was central. Intriguing if you start applying the concepts to a larger scope.
    |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

    XBL GT: Khan58

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    • #3
      Re: It's a slippery slope......

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity

      Why is it a bad thing that humanity gets replaced? I have no particular investment in seeing that my successors are organic.

      As to teaching ethics, I imagine that we'll see multiple such intelligences arise around the same time, and each will reflect the ethics of its creators, much like the nutty kid who's refusing cancer treatment because of his parents' religious beliefs.

      A good fictional account can be viewed in the SciFi series Odyssey 5. Order from Amazon.com

      I also highly recommend the fiction of Vernor Vinge, particularly Marooned in Realtime. Order from Amazon.com

      BTW, Khan, you can link to Amazon pages and give TG the referral credit if someone buys the book by using a link like this:

      [amazon]1558607838[/amazon]
      Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

      snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

      Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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      • #4
        Re: It's a slippery slope......

        Yes, we are going down a slope towards depending on machines more and more, but it will be a little longer until we have a "Skynet" type system, now if we did have a "skynet" system in the future wouldn't the machines be time traveling to try and get this to happen sooner?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: It's a slippery slope......

          Time travel is a fictional device, not a real technology. AI is at least conceivably possible.

          Vinge's original Singularity paper:

          http://mindstalk.net/vinge/vinge-sing.html

          If you've read/seen Dune, you've seen a fictional account of what results when people brutally suppress the Singularity. In Dune, all computers are restricted and regulated to stop a runaway AI, and processes that require computing (notably interstellar travel) are instead performed by specially bred humans ("mentads").
          Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

          snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

          Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: It's a slippery slope......

            Unfortuantly I cannot source what I am about to say at the moment and it is based on previous articles read from Physical Review, BBC documentaries and a few friends ;).
            If you are worried about technology killing humans then you have to actually specify how. A guy can get stuck in the mechanical arms of a painting machine and die, but that obviously is not the robots fault, and technology that is used for such manufacturing purposes definitely has no conscious ability to kill. Even these army robots have no conscious programming to kill, they only do as they are instructed.
            As for military intelligence for technology, I know someone who was working on military targeting systems for tank missiles, the ability for any computer to target was so inaccurate that after pooling nearly infinite resources on it they gave up as it didn't stand up to human knowledge.
            General AI intelligence on the other hand is no where near as far as you would imagine, yes they have made robots that can "learn" but in all these cases the learning ability was similar to something like "it could learn the position of coloured blocks", one engineer who has spent his whole life creating robots and intelligence stated that even teaching a robot to understand and instruct the command "May I have a cup of tea?" is beyond conceivable reach at the moment. Since this is only a command and involves know moral decisions what so ever, creating an AI that can think for itself and make conscious decisions from no previous command or instruction is most certainly not foreseeable for a long time to come.
            Before you judge a man, try walking a mile in their shoes first. That way your a mile away and you have their shoes.

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            • #7
              Re: It's a slippery slope......

              Machine intelligence is currently very precise and restricts itself to making statements about what it knows.

              The real test of AI will be a computer that can win Internet arguments: It needs to be able to make statements about something it knows nothing about, and believe those statements with all its heart. :p
              Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

              snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

              Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: It's a slippery slope......

                [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPiF4-iu6g[/media]


                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: It's a slippery slope......

                  Evolving Robots Learn To Lie To Each Other
                  http://www.popsci.com/scitech/articl...ces-each-other

                  Maybe dating a robot isn't such a good idea after all.... :p
                  Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                  snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                  Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: It's a slippery slope......

                    Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
                    Evolving Robots Learn To Lie To Each Other
                    http://www.popsci.com/scitech/articl...ces-each-other

                    Well that was interesting....

                    ~ Draken

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: It's a slippery slope......

                      I research group I was a part of had a small symposium to discuss the feasibility of a system that could identify suicide bombers by analyzing their gate on a video camera.

                      People have a typical gate, that gate changes under load. You can model a person as a bunch of pendulums, some inverted, others normal - When you add weight to the system those pendulums behave in new, and predictable ways. Normal gate changes as a function of where the load is applied and the intention of the walker.

                      We focused on other biological markers such as detecting heart rate at a distance and heat signatures. In the end we sent off some suggestions to DARPA, but never really pursued it further.

                      “Up, sluggard, and waste not life; in the grave will be sleeping enough!” Benjamin Franklin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: It's a slippery slope......

                        So, any actual evidence of an artificial intelligence deciding to kill humans?

                        (Lying does not count as wanting to kill)
                        |TG-6th|Snooggums

                        Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: It's a slippery slope......

                          That lying article was a nice way of anthropomorphizing some AI. I think most psychologists would say lying involves some intention to deceive. The agents in that simulation were acting on inputs and outputs to maximize a goal. I don't think they thought about it, they just explored the consequences of their actions.

                          Sounds more like an interesting side effect of Thorndike's classic law of effect.

                          “Up, sluggard, and waste not life; in the grave will be sleeping enough!” Benjamin Franklin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: It's a slippery slope......

                            Citing UAV's is silly. Air Force leadership has firmly stated that they will not ever leave the decision to kill/destroy up to a robot. Let alone give it the ability to pull the trigger (outside of malfunction...)

                            It's a running joke in the AF that whenever a computer locks up or something we're using breaks, we say "Damn you Skynet!" or something similar. But the truth of the matter is that, speaking on a purely military view, we're safe.

                            However, I cannot speak for the civilian side being infiltrated by a "skynet" situation. Everything that has become more advanced in the past 50 years has usually been to simplify or make things more convenient for day to day life. I can definately see people cutting corners in making conscious decisions that we would normally make but become too lazy to "think" about such "petty things"

                            Personally, I believe that hundreds of years from now, if the human race still exists, the only thing sepparating humans from their technological environment will be the soul. Not strictly in a religious sense, but the "whole-person" concept that makes every individual unique.
                            Skud


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                            • #15
                              Re: It's a slippery slope......

                              sc1ence, I believe the word you want is "gait". (It took me a minute to reparse what you were saying. ;)) Sounds like an interesting study. How do you distinguish someone carrying bombs from someone who's just fat?

                              If someone built Skynet today, it would probably have to be rebooted after 15 minutes because some operator was surfing pr0n and got a trojan. :p Anyone remember the naval ships that got their administrative net seriously infected? They were running NT. Fortunately the battle net is on a separate isolated LAN. But the administrative system is used for logistics and morale, so it wasn't completely harmless.
                              Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                              snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                              Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                              Comment

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