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  • Lost finale?



    splaindish ittome


    The plane really crashed, and all the time-travel and paranormal stuff was REAL.. and the other island-less reality [where hurley has good luck] is purgatory?????? <squint>


    edit: also - does search not work or is there really no thread about this yet????

  • #2
    Re: Lost finale?

    you know i was wondering the same thing about this.

    i am thinking just like you whiskey, that the plan crashed and everything was real, but in regards to Hurley and Ben...Were they dead all along? Or did they just die after the island was destroyed, sometime after Hurley and Ben?






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    • #3
      Re: Lost finale?

      Whiskey, if you're talking about what were called the "flash sideways" my impression was yes, it was some form of purgatory, a transitional state between life and the after life.

      Originally posted by Jack Bauer View Post
      i am thinking just like you whiskey, that the plan crashed and everything was real, but in regards to Hurley and Ben...Were they dead all along? Or did they just die after the island was destroyed, sometime after Hurley and Ben?
      At one point someone (I think Jack's father) said something to the effect of, there is no "now" in this place. So it would be possible for them all to be there at the same time no matter when they died, without the one's who died early having to wait on them. I go the impression the Hurley and Ben was real from Hurley's comment to Ben, "You were a great number 2"

      I missed a lot of this season and did not watch the recap, but that was my take on it, FWIW.
      Big-eye101: "A true catman post a day keeps the bad mood away"

      Please do not take any posts made by Catman seriously. If you begin to take his posts seriously, please seek psychiatric attention.

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      • #4
        Re: Lost finale?

        I think they died on the island at some point... apparently time doesn't matter much because they all meet in the Limbo/Hurley's-lucky version of reality before going to heaven. Either that or each character has a their own Limbo/Hurley's Lucky version of reality they go to, and we just saw Jack's.


        Still though, this season, including the finale, kinda sucked IMO. None of my core questions were answered!


        What's the deal with the numbers? WTF was the Dharma Initiative? How/why did Hurley see dead people? How did the island heal people? What was the deal with the atomic bomb going off and not killing everyone?

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        • #5
          Re: Lost finale?

          Originally posted by WhiskeySix View Post
          What's the deal with the numbers? WTF was the Dharma Initiative? How/why did Hurley see dead people? How did the island heal people? What was the deal with the atomic bomb going off and not killing everyone?
          Thats so you can buy the Special Edition DVD's with the 15 minutes of "never seen footage" ;)

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          • #6
            Re: Lost finale?

            Originally posted by WhiskeySix View Post
            What's the deal with the numbers? WTF was the Dharma Initiative? How/why did Hurley see dead people? How did the island heal people? What was the deal with the atomic bomb going off and not killing everyone?
            I guess those types of things didn't bother me with the ending. I saw the numbers as just an odd coincidence. Dharma was just a corporation started by some people that discovered the properties of the island. We saw at one point Jakob and (the smoke monster in human form, I can't remember his name) talking as a ship comes to the island, and from their discussion we discover that many have landed on the island. They got off and found a way back to try to answer the healing question and then why women don't make it to full term pregnancy and deliver on the island. I think we were left to question Hurley's sanity, maybe he really only saw them in his mind. Why can Miles hear the dead?

            I was more interested in how Jakob and the monster got to the island in the first place....or was that in an episode I missed?
            Big-eye101: "A true catman post a day keeps the bad mood away"

            Please do not take any posts made by Catman seriously. If you begin to take his posts seriously, please seek psychiatric attention.

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            • #7
              Re: Lost finale?

              i dont understand how u all could stand lost lol

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              • #8
                Re: Lost finale?

                Originally posted by WhiskeySix View Post
                Still though, this season, including the finale, kinda sucked IMO. None of my core questions were answered!
                That is exactly how I felt. The producers told us at one time that they were not all dead, they survived the crashed. The finale just gave me the impression that they needed to end it someway, but the producers already said "they at not dead" meaning that they needed to come up with some elaborate way to make them dead and so "the end." I agree with Cat, Jack's father said "there is no now here" and that "some died before you (jack) and long after you." Wish they would have done more with the ending.


                Hopefully when the complete set goes on sell I'll feel like picking it up and HOPEFULLY the bonus stuff will answer some questions.



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                • #9
                  Re: Lost finale?

                  I think jimmy kimmel had something when he said that jack died on the plane and everything that happened after was his journey to the afterlife and everyone else on the plane had the same journey with him but the focus was jack.

                  Interesting idea. If you didn't catch the jimmy kimmel show aloha to lost special i recommend it.


                  - -

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                  • #10
                    Re: Lost finale?

                    I didn't think much of the finale, and my wife was downright pissed. She was seriously angry that we had invested so much time in a show that had such a crappy ending. <shrug> I thought it was kinda lame, but I've never held high hopes for quality television.
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                    • #11
                      Re: Lost finale?

                      I'm not a LOST watcher.

                      I watched one episode ever. I believe it was the first season's finale. That episode in itself was enough to turn me away.

                      If you all are interested in reading some seriously long, boring, drawn out crap about the finale, you can head over to io9 and read the pages upon pages of articles/user comments.

                      What ultimately made me decide to stay away from the show was this: If I wanted to disect a mystery I would re-read Agatha Cristy's And Then There Were None. All, to me, LOST ever gave us was more questions with each season finale.
                      Skud


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                      • #12
                        Re: Lost finale?

                        I saw this on another forum, so I don't have the actual source. Claimed it was written by a writer of Lost.

                        Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

                        First ...
                        The Island:

                        It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

                        Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

                        Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

                        Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

                        Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

                        In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

                        Now...

                        Sideways World:

                        Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

                        The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

                        It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

                        How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

                        But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

                        They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

                        A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

                        But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

                        For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

                        In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Lost finale?

                          I'm still certain that whatever the creators/writers had in mind for Lost was not what they ended up producing. In other words, they were basically making it up as they went along.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Lost finale?

                            I liked the emotional tone of the ending, but hated that it completely failed to answer any technical question raised over the course of the show. But what can you expect of writers who use Macs? ;) My presumption is that almost all TV is written by people with a comic book knowledge of science, not unlike a cargo cult.

                            One exception, in some of his shows, is Josh Whedon. I liked the ending for Dollhouse and he tied up Firefly well with Serenity. Buffy ended pretty well. Angel was a total throwaway, but it was also written to admit that, and didn't claim to tie everything up.

                            I thought the ending for Battlestar Galactica completely sucked. "Let's throw all our technology away and revert to disease-ridden barbarism and hope our descendants do better next time!"

                            I wasn't real happy with the ending to Babylon 5, but that's far enough in the past that I can't recall what sucked about it. Just that it was very unsatisfying. But to be fair, JMS (the creator) was never certain whether he'd have another season to close out plot lines, so the end of every season was rocky.
                            Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

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