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  • What are we waiting for?

    Well, my hard drive is almost full so I guess it's about time to get a new computing machine.

    On a more serious note, since I rebuilt this machine two and a half years ago, it's had a lot of issues. The case is missing a leg. Both the optical drives are basically unusable, and the media card reader suffers from the same problem. I bought an ATX mobo to fit the eATX case and there are not enough fan connectors for all the case fans, and the front fan's power cable won't even reach. Bolts are missing from everything, including fans, the case doors, and the motherboard. The PSU is over 5 years old. The front panel never worked right.

    As for the first time in my life I've finally got a steady income, I think it's high time I upgraded. This is where I'd like some advice.

    I'm thinking I'll go full stupid on this one. Z170. 980Ti. That sort of thing. My question is... is there anything coming in the next several months that I might want to hold off for? I assume I'll already be waiting at least another month for Skylakes to stop being sold out, but Pascal sounds like it's too far away to bother worrying about right now. Nice 170 boards should be out this month from ASUS. I can't think of any other reasons to wait besides perhaps lower prices or better 4K monitors. (but there's no sense holding off on a PC for want of a monitor)

    Thoughts? Advice? Ideas?

    (Plz no quad-SLI or PCI-E SSD suggestions)
    Teamwork and Tactics are OP


    Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

  • #2
    Re: What are we waiting for?

    Raider, are you willing to consider buying a Skylake line of Intel or a Zen line of AMD CPUs? If AMD doesn't go full retard on us, AMD is going to replace the Bulldozer related FX line up with a performance oriented Zen series of CPUs which will release next year. Talk is that it is an 8 or 16 core. Both should have DDR4 support. Intel's Skylake 6000 series already supports DDR4 and is a solid choice if you do not go with AMD.

    AMD is trying to make a competitor to the i7-5960X, but we will see when the new cpu line up is released. If you want something sooner, then go Intel.

    http://wccftech.com/amd-officially-r...admap-zen-k12/

    As for GPUs, you have your 980ti and Fury X. Fury X competes with the Titan and is about the price of the 980ti, but it has a closed loop water cooler fan combo, so if you use small cases, then you might not want that.

    DDR4 is a good idea and SSDs. Seems like a lot of games benefit from SSDs.



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    • #3
      Re: What are we waiting for?

      I am waiting for Skylake i7s to become available in larger quantities. Right now my options for getting one would be extremely limited. Likewise with the Z170 mobos to support it, good Z170 boards are just starting to come out.

      I'm pretty set on the 980Ti. I like the Fury X, but to say it competes with the Titan is a bit inaccurate. The Fury X competes at the price point of the 980Ti and unfortunately falls flat, delivering inferior performance at HD resolutions and only pulling even with the 980Ti at 4K due to its HBM. I would honestly consider a Titan for this build, but the performance gain over the 980Ti is so small as to be nonexistent. The 980Ti is Titan-derived, and as far as I know is basically a Titan X with less VRAM. The Fury X also has reported issues with loud stock fans.

      DDR4 is mandatory for Z170 or X99. I'm going to be going for a big primary SSD as well so that I can slot a couple of big games on there alongside Windows.

      Thanks for the info in the new AMD processors. I'd really love to see them turn out well. I don't see a point to waiting though, even if it works as well as AMD claims, that would still only put it on par with Haswell, when Skylake is already here in 2015.

      The only other big thing on the horizon that I can think of is Pascal, and its claimed "10x performance increase" over the Maxwell. Rumors have that anywhere from Q1 to Q3 2016, but some people are speculating that it may be delayed by the fact that AMD has first dibs on HBM2 memory, because they helped develop it (or something). I don't think I'll wait for Pascal either. Does anyone have a strong opinion on Pascal?
      Teamwork and Tactics are OP


      Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

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      • #4
        Re: What are we waiting for?

        Skylake supports DDR3 and DDR4. If you have DDR3 that you would like to use and can find a suitable DDR3 motherboard it may a decent path to take. Here is an article outlining the performance differences:

        http://www.anandtech.com/show/9483/i...h-generation/7

        Newegg shows 2 skylake boards that support DDR3 only 1 of which is available for purchase at the moment.
        |TG-12th| Namebot

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        • #5
          Re: What are we waiting for?

          Interesting. I'll probably go DDR4 as that's what most of the high-end boards support (I actually thought they only supported DDR4). That way I can sell / give away my current PC as a complete package as well.
          Teamwork and Tactics are OP


          Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

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          • #6
            Re: What are we waiting for?

            What screen size are you shooting for? I've fiddled with some 4k screens and my eyes can't tell the difference between them and the 1080p or 1440p. The necessary hardware needed to run a 4k screen at decent settings just doesn't seem worth it unless you are getting a massive scree that the other resolutions can't handle.
            |TG-6th|SirNerd

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            • #7
              Re: What are we waiting for?

              I'm running a 25.5" WUXGA, and I don't have to look that close even to see individual pixels (I sit pretty close to my monitor).

              I'm thinking at least 27-28", possibly 30-32" if the price is right.

              Maybe it's just me, but I can definitely tell the difference between 1080p and 1440p in a 24-27" monitor. (I've seen a couple)

              What impressed me most though was the 2560x1600 resolution Samsung Galaxy Tab S I saw in store once. 10.5" screen. Obviously that's a much higher pixel density than even 4K at 27", but it was immensely impressive and immediately evident that it was far, far clearer than my current monitor.

              The human eye has pretty good resolution.
              Teamwork and Tactics are OP


              Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

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              • #8
                Re: What are we waiting for?

                Originally posted by Strait Raider View Post
                possibly 30-32" if the price is right.
                Dat Monoprice 30" IPS FTW, brah! :p
                "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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                • #9
                  Re: What are we waiting for?

                  I just measured my face.

                  So I could compare it to this graph:

                  [image]http://cdn.referencehometheater.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Ideal-Distances-Chart.jpg?dfb8f9[/image]

                  In "Relaxed" position, I'm about 2'6" from my monitor.

                  In "Gaming" position, I'm about 1'11" from my monitor.

                  In "Intense Gaming" position, I can be 1'6" or closer. (and sometimes get closer to try to make out detail that isn't there to see on WUXGA)

                  No, I don't get eye strain, eye pain, blood exploding from my face, etc.

                  This puts me pretty firmly in the theoretical "would get full benefit of 4K resolution" for a 30" monitor.

                  That being said, I'll probably be waiting some time after getting a new PC to get a 4K display. Prices should drop more, hopefully we'll see better connectors, lower latancies, higher refresh rates, and maybe, just maybe, 16:10 4K monitors.
                  Teamwork and Tactics are OP


                  Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

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                  • #10
                    Re: What are we waiting for?

                    I agree with Sir Nerd that the hardware needed to push that at good frames will be pricey. Also I think 30" displays seem to be the last bastions of glorious mustard race 16:10. Plus the 4K display itself will be pricey, lack of content, etc.

                    It seems that you want to disregard all the cons and talk yourself into 4K anyway. Hey man, you only live once. :) And if you can afford it and you want to do it, you should do what you want.

                    OTOH, I'm sure you also understand that a build with Z97, i7, DDR4, etc. is certainly getting into "diminishing returns" (for your money) territory. Personally, I have never seen the point of that, when the whole PC game is just an arms race anyway and you will be upgrading again in a few years. That's why I always shoot for the "most bang for my buck" point in the curve, with an eye toward future upgradeability. Generally speaking (and this applies not only to PCs, but cars and other tech as well), I also like to use things that are produced in large numbers, proven, stable tech (not bleeding edge), etc. This means less headaches for me as I don't jump on board until they have all the bugs worked out and costs come down. For example I finally just purchased my first SSD recently.

                    But then again I just see "4K" as the latest marketing gimmick/buzzword. Like "3D", etc. Just the "latest and greatest" thing, marketed to make you feel like somehow you need that, or are being left behind if you don't run out today and buy one. When in many cases you really don't need it. It's always amazing to me how many times I read in these build threads "I don't want to be left behind" or "I want to future proof" etc. Again I never understood that, when you will likely be building a whole new rig in a few-several years anyway.

                    As an example, I run an i5-4690k, 16gb RAM, SSD, and an R9 290. I would be willing to bet that I get "close enough" frames to what you might get building this monster system. Except I will have spent a lot less money. Probably at some point I will add a second R9 290, that is one of my upgrade paths to extend the useful life of this system. Also overclocking, which I haven't needed to (or had time) to touch yet either. But it's there should I need it (or just feel like geeking out and tweaking my system).

                    Anyway, just some food for thought. I'm sure there are other things in your life you would like to spend money on. Or maybe not? lol In any case, this is my opinion only, if you want to go bananas and spend a lot of money and build the system of your dreams then by all means go ahead. You only get one go 'round, do what makes you happy. :)
                    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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                    • #11
                      Re: What are we waiting for?

                      You're spot on, Randy.

                      I know full well that this build is not smart. My last two computers have been smart purchases. Now that I can finally afford to, I want to see what it's like to be dumb.

                      I know I could get quite good returns with a Z79 / i5 / DDR3 / GTX 970 but... I want to see what it's like to have the best of the best, just this one time. (Unless of course, I get addicted to power)

                      I think, out of all the times to be stupid, now is it. With the Oculus release imminent, I'll want something that can push 2160x1200 resolution without dipping below 60 fps to prevent motion sickness. 4K is a pusher for me too. It's absolutely being used as a buzzword, but that doesn't mean it's not A) pretty damn impressive and B) the future standard. I can absolutely tell the difference between 4K and 1080p at the distances I sit from my screen. I am also, in the interest of full disclosure, what you might uncouthly call a "graphics whore". I will run games at 30-40 fps to get the best visuals, unless the game requires twitch shooting.

                      My only question is... is there anything on the horizon that I'll be absolutely kicking myself in the back over in a year's time if I pull the trigger on this system in the next couple of months?

                      The only thing I can think of is Pascal, and its purported 10x improvement over the current Nvidea crop.

                      That and this which, although extremely early data, shows your R9 290 performing on par or better than a 980 Ti when using DX12.

                      If AMD's fiddling with Mantle and work on designing their asynchronous compute engines (Literally the ACE up their sleeve) is about to pay dividends and skyrocket AMD past Nvidea for the near future, I'd again be kicking myself for getting a 980Ti.

                      I guess in either highly theoretical scenario, it would only be a GPU swap needed if Pascal or new AMD cards suddenly became absolute must-have items. (i.e if they allow 4K gaming at 60+ fps with modern games)
                      Teamwork and Tactics are OP


                      Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

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                      • #12
                        Re: What are we waiting for?

                        It sounds like you have thought this through. You are well aware of the issues involved, and it's what you want to do. I say if you really want to, then go for it, man! And enjoy! :)

                        I have been a cheapskate my whole life. Work, save, only buying assets for the business, real estate, etc.; in other words, things that will make me more money, or have some practical use, etc. I've never really splurged on nice things that are just for fun, comfort, or pleasure. But lately I have had an epiphany. I just want to have a few nice things. Life is short, enjoy it. I have built a rig that I am very happy with. For me, it was a splurge. The specs are not super super impressive, but I did put it in a pretty nice, really big case (Corsair 750D) and spent a lot on high quality peripherals (K95 RGB mechanical keyboard, M65 mouse) and a really nice triple monitor setup (20 30 20 PLP with that Monoprice 30" IPS in the center). Set it all up on a bunch of those modular sections of IKEA desk cabinets + tops, that are now covering almost 2 entire walls plus a corner. Now, IKEA stuff is not expensive but I've never spent for new furniture in my life. It is new, and nice, it all matches, and ample desktop with ample storage space underneath. It is a proper battle station worthy of showing off, and it is a real pleasure to work and play on, and I thoroughly enjoy it every single day.

                        I also bought some $85 flip flops recently. Never in my life did I think I would ever buy some $85 flip flops. LOL But when you live n Florida and spend 95% of your time outside of work in flip flops, weeeell... And these are super super comfy. My back actually started to feel better within 5 minutes of putting them on.

                        So yeah, follow your gut / heart and make yourself happy, man. That's what we are here for. Meaning in life is largely self defined.

                        I have also read that AMD have shown up quite well in DX12, although as you point out it is early. I'm sure Nvidia will get their DX12 stuff in order in time. Now I am a big AMD fan, but truth be told, what is really being written in DX12 right now anyway?

                        Yeah with this socket I can always throw an i7 in, should I ever really need multi-threading. That was another of my potential upgrade paths.

                        But yeah man, if/when you actually build that goofy thing, please post up pics! :) I suppose that I should as well, since I did promise to do so at one point, back in my build thread...
                        "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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                        • #13
                          Re: What are we waiting for?

                          Originally posted by Strait Raider View Post
                          My only question is... is there anything on the horizon that I'll be absolutely kicking myself in the back over in a year's time if I pull the trigger on this system in the next couple of months?
                          Wanted to address this point, specifically.

                          I don't think so. It's the old "there is always something better on the horizon" gimmick. lol Just buy whatever you want to now (or when you are ready) and start enjoying it. There will forever be newer tech, newer stuff, things move on, prices come down, etc. That's the nature of the PC arms race we all play. The one thing that always gets left out of these calculations / discussions, however, is how much you are enjoying your new system. You could wait and wait for this and that or whatever new and upcoming tech, or you could pull the trigger and build now, and start enjoying your new system now, and you will continue to enjoy it for the next couple / few years or until such time you feel you need to upgrade again. Or you take up another hobby besides PC gaming. lol

                          Having said the above in general; more specifically I think we are in a time right now where there is really very little innovation and advancement anyway. A big part of this is AMD being on their heels. Another facet is the growing market share of tablet and mobile devices pushing improvements in energy consumption instead of just raw power. At any rate, we really haven't seen much real innovation or advancement in desktop CPUs in quite a while. Truth be told, if you built with an i5-2500 years ago, that system is still good today. I only bought my 4690k because I was building a new system, other than that there would have been no need to upgrade. Hell, those on an extremely limited budget are still getting along just fine with their old G3258s for crying out loud!

                          So, from a tech perspective, I would say no, you are not gaining anything by waiting. However from a cost perspective... Of course the longer you wait the price of everything continues to come down. Duh. But also, more specifically, as we get closer to Black Friday I think you may find some better deals. Well, actually, that was not exactly what I noticed last year. Now if you will recall, that was about the time I was speccing out my new rig. And so I was waiting and watching prices very closely from maybe Sept.-Dec. And what I seemed to notice was this: prices seemed to be at their best well before Black Friday. I am talking like October(-ish). Once November started, prices rose to artificial levels, so retailers could claim "we are giving you x% off for Black Friday!!!!11!!" or whatever. And then prices stayed high through the holidays. Which makes sense from a market / supply and demand perspective. In October, people probably stop buying stuff, and start holding off for "good sales" on Black Friday and the holidays. So sales slow down, and retailers need to give discounts to move product. I wanted to kick myself for not pulling the trigger on some things in like October, because after that, prices only went up into Nov and then the holidays. But check these price watching sites for trends, I may not be exactly correct on the dates (it was last year, after all).

                          Happy shopping!
                          "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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                          • #14
                            Re: What are we waiting for?

                            [MENTION=39975]Strait Raider[/MENTION]

                            I wouldn't do the best of the best. Trust me the return on it is not worth it years down the road. At some point newer parts will eclipse the functionality of what you have and/or have way better performance that you'd wish you were smart and saved some of that cash. That way you could have upgraded.

                            If anything, I would suggesting waiting to see how AMD's upcoming Zen architecture performs before making any snap purchases towards a new rig.
                            |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
                            TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
                            Former 9th & 13th

                            Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
                            Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





                            SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

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                            • #15
                              Re: What are we waiting for?

                              On the GPU side I would be very wary of AMD. My personal experience is that they have had driver issues for years, run extremely hot in comparison to Nvidia etc. Also the recent fuss about AMD supposedly outperforming Nvidia in DX12 tests needs to be viewed in context. AMD was extremely far behind Nvidia performance wise during the DX11 period. Some say this is potentially because they were throwing their efforts behind Mantle and the upcoming DX12. Hence some of their cards are performing well in DX12 tests. However the flip side of that speculation coin is that potentially Nvidia may have been relatively speaking neglecting DX12 to focus on the here and now of DX11. I would expect to see Nvidia release better and better drivers once DX12 is actually out in the wild and being actively used in games development.

                              For me at least an AMD CPU isn't even a consideration and I wouldn't purchase another AMD GPU at this time, despite the fact I loved my old HD5870 1GB back in the day. Personally I'd rather have a more reliable, cooler running card with the added bonus of Geforce experience and Shadowplay (recording software with almost zero performance impact on FPS).


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