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  • Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

    Ok, as many of you know, I've been planning, testing, messing around with Linux in the hopes of putting out a Tactical Gamer centric version of Linux.

    It's time to say that this is not going to happen: I'm officially closing the project.

    Why?

    The reasons are manifold.

    1. Linux, while usable as a desktop, remains difficult to configure.

    It seems that something is always going wrong, some update trashes your system, or something funky happens with applications. Bill Hilf talked about that a few weeks ago, and I agree:

    "The loosely coupled development model prevents linux from being successful on the desktop."

    Bill is right: someone needs to take a bunch of applications, make them all work together seamlessly, and make the whole system coherent. You would have to completly redesign a Linux distribution from the kernel up, something I do not have the time, nor do I have the skill, to do.

    You basically have to make Linux into Windows XP.

    2. Linux gaming will always be an also ran. It really pains me to say that, but it's a fact: if you still are negotiating how to get Ghost Recon, Diablo II, and other 4 year old games running, then you cannot be considered a world class gaming platform.

    Wine and Cedega are options, but they often do not work, and are a pain to configure. I was hoping that both projects would move more quickly, but that has not happened. Some games do run, but often, you have to settle for choppy audio, incorrect textures, or some other oddity that exists as a result of, well, trying to run the application on an operating system it is not designed for.

    Yes, there are some Linux native games out there, but they are generally unsupported. In three weeks, I never got the sound in Doom III or Quake IV to run....graphically they did the job, but without sound.....well, it's not exactly immersive.

    Id's take has been that it is an issue with the underlying sound architecture, so "go talk to those guys". To do so, you need arcane knowledge of the command line to fix them, and even if you do, it may not work.

    That is unacceptable: I cannot release TacticalOS and say "it's a great gaming platform" if half the games we play do not, and will not run on it, and even linux native games have issues.

    3. Hardware issues are still prevalent, even with major Linux distributions, like Ubuntu. I've spent three weeks trying to get Teamspeak up and running, to no avail. Trooper and Acid had their own hardware issues with Ubuntu.

    Unless I can release something that is just "ready to go" for the bulk of our community, I can't see that releasing TacticalOS in any form would be good for the community.

    For these reasons, I'm shuttering the project. It pains me to do so, but I think that is the correct course to take.
    Last edited by Mateo; 06-29-2006, 12:45 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

    Good call. Not easy, I'm sure, but admirable, all the same.

    Life's a journey, I guess.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    • #3
      Re: Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

      Originally posted by Mateo (edited for brevity and clarity)
      "WAAAHHHHH! It's too hard to make my own operating system from the ground up!"
      Sheesh. Some people. ;)
      [volun2]
      NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
      Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
      <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
      <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

      Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

        I understand all of the concerns you've mentioned. Having a laptop with my primary OS being Fedora 3, I can sympathize with what you're up against.

        Thanks for all your efforts though! I'm sure at the very least you've learned a ton more than you ever wanted to about Linux. :)
        Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

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        • #5
          Re: Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

          Three cheers for Mateo!

          HipHip, Hooray!

          HipHip, Hooray!

          HipHsegfault.
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

            Mateo, I know I called you out on this just about every time you turned around, but I was really hoping that you'd pull this off. I was running the TacOS wallpaper for weeks on my desktop and had been perusing the linux apps that I'd be needing to replace my Windows programs. I think that if I can figure out how to dual boot (or a LiveCD?), I might try this Ubuntu thing that you keep talking about...

            Thanks for your efforts! Hopefully this is a project that can get back up off the ground at sometime in the future...
            Become a supporting member!
            Buy a Tactical Duck!
            Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage."
            TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

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            • #7
              Re: Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

              Originally posted by CingularDuality
              Mateo, I know I called you out on this just about every time you turned around, but I was really hoping that you'd pull this off. I was running the TacOS wallpaper for weeks on my desktop and had been perusing the linux apps that I'd be needing to replace my Windows programs. I think that if I can figure out how to dual boot (or a LiveCD?), I might try this Ubuntu thing that you keep talking about...

              Thanks for your efforts! Hopefully this is a project that can get back up off the ground at sometime in the future...
              Well, it was partially your calling me out that made me think critically about the project at every step. It's real easy to fall into: oh, that's easy, just do XYZNF ./ -r 0f -zx and the problem will fix itself, or it's user error. That's not a good way to go.

              So, I kept thinking: would Cing be willing to go through all of all of these steps just to get this or that game running? How about the desktop?

              Right now, based on the state of Linux, the apps, and the ability to play games, I'd say no. If you can't please the harshest critic, then it's not worth releasing.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

                Good call mateo, It's hard enough sometimes just getting things to work properly on the OS that does support the games hehe.

                Good work and i hope you gained something out of all your effort!


                - -

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

                  WOOOHOOO! i can go back to windows....WOOOHOOO!
                  that sounds like a good idea trooper.
                  -Vulcan

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

                    You don't know if it works until you try, good effert Mateo
                    XBOX GT: STEALTH C4T

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

                      I got alot of rep messages, and PMs, saying "nice try" and lamenting the end of the project. Seems like there was alot more interest in this than I thought.

                      That got me to thinking...I posit the question to you: how easy does it have to be to make it useful to you as a user or gamer? If it were logical, but not necessarily easy, would that be enough?

                      I guess I could sum it up this way: how much pain are you willing to tolerate for "free" and "open"?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

                        Originally posted by Mateo
                        I got alot of rep messages, and PMs, saying "nice try" and lamenting the end of the project. Seems like there was alot more interest in this than I thought.

                        That got me to thinking...I posit the question to you: how easy does it have to be to make it useful to you as a user or gamer? If it were logical, but not necessarily easy, would that be enough?

                        I guess I could sum it up this way: how much pain are you willing to tolerate for "free" and "open"?
                        Originally posted by Mateo (earlier)
                        I cannot release TacticalOS and say "it's a great gaming platform" if half the games we play do not, and will not run on it, and even linux native games have issues.
                        That earlier statement really hit the mark for me. I'd like to run Linux and all, but I like my gaming more. If I could do gaming with "free and open", that'd be great, but my first concern is the gaming.

                        I'd be willing to trick some stuff out, but there's no way in hell I'm spending more than 30-60 minutes trying to do so before booting XP back up. Three weeks for Teamspeak? Check please.

                        I -- and most of us here, being that we're PC gamers (by and large) -- know enough about computers that I'm not scared of making the tweaks that Linux might need. But I'd also rather be gaming... you know?
                        [volun2]
                        NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
                        Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
                        <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
                        <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

                        Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

                          Mateo, I'm guessing (as in, I have no idea what I'm talking about) that most of the well wishes were shows of interest in you more than Linux or TacticalOS.

                          Regarding your question: the pain of change must be less than the pain of same. My pain of same is remarkably acceptable presently.
                          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

                            Mateo if it were something that i could setup and then rarely have to go in depth to tweak again it would be fine. However if it's something that i have to constantly change and fix everytime i update a driver or get a patch for the kernel, then i'd not be so keen on using it.

                            The other thing to consider is that many people paid for windows xp already and probably don't want to just let that money sit on the shelf.


                            - -

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Time to Eat Crow: TacticalOS is Dead

                              Originally posted by Wyzcrak
                              Mateo, I'm guessing (as in, I have no idea what I'm talking about) that most of the well wishes were shows of interest in you more than Linux or TacticalOS.
                              I'm gonna guess the same as Wyz here.

                              Comment

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