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  • hi-def and PC video...

    I'm just trying to learn a thing or two here, kind of a backyard fence conversation here.

    High Definition:

    a 480 resolution is just an average TV, nothing hi-def about it.

    a 720p (progressive) is the first size considered Hi-def, with a resolution of 1280x720 pixels @ 60 FPS.

    a 1080i (interlaced) is the next size considered hi-def, with a resolution of 1920x1080 pixels @ 30 FPS.

    a 1080p (progressive) is the best out right now, with a resolution of 1920x1080 pixels @ 60 FPS.

    So, if thats all true...

    All of the modern PC monitors and video cards would be considered hi-def pictures at around 1024x768 or so, Running your PC at say, 1600x1200 would be extremely high definition correct?

    and what, BTW, is the FPS on a PC anyway, (I know it changes with a game, but is there a set standard that a PC is 30 FPS or 60?)


    The reason I ask all of this is because of an experiment I'm kinda doing with my system. You see, my Xbox 360 runs on a 50 inch DLP Samsung with 1080i, and looks damn good, but shouldn't our games and videos on the PC look better?



    Kinda off topic here, but same line:

    I just updated my video card to a top of the line, with 512 video Ram. So now I even have a even more kick butt system, for now. (see my specs at end of post if you've read this far, lol.)

    I did some test, and really only noticed about a 10 FPS increase and/or decrease in performance for a number of games from first trying all my test games at 1800x1200.

    At 1800x1200, everything as high as it goes, I got on average from fraps:
    SWAT 4... 80 FPS
    GRAW... 60 FPS
    AA... 60 FPS
    Lock On... 25 FPS
    MFS X... 10 FPS

    When I lowered it to 1024x768x32, I got on average:
    SWAT4... 80 plus
    GRAW 60... plus
    AA 60... plus
    Lock On... 35
    MSF X... 15

    So, according to my un-scientific test, there ain't to much of a plus or minus when going from one extreme resolution, to another. (and it seems shooters do better then flight sims.)

    Which leads me to a final thought/question...

    If the human eye really can't see any better then 30 plus FPS, then 30 something should be the goal for all games to hit in reference to FPS, right?

    What then, would be the best gaming resolution taking everything I mentioned in account. (high... like 1800x1200, or low... like 1024x768), which both would be more Hi Def then your TV. Right?

    My specs now:
    Dell XPS Gen 4
    P4-3.7 MHz
    2 gigs of DDR2 RAM
    Raedon 1950 XTX w/ 512 video ram (up from the 850 w/ 256 I had)
    Soundblaster Audity

    Teach me wise ones. ;)
    Magnum |TG-18th|


    We stand between chaos and order, evil and good, despair and hope - we are the Thin Blue Line, and we will never be broken.


  • #2
    Re: hi-def and PC video...

    The reason I ask all of this is because of an experiment I'm kinda doing with my system. You see, my Xbox 360 runs on a 50 inch DLP Samsung with 1080i, and looks damn good, but shouldn't our games and videos on the PC look better?
    Are you saying they don't?

    I did some test, and really only noticed about a 10 FPS increase and/or decrease in performance for a number of games from first trying all my test games at 1800x1200.
    This strongly implies that your performance is CPU-bound. If your video card weren't so powerful the frame rate would drop at higher resolution.

    If the human eye really can't see any better then 30 plus FPS, then 30 something should be the goal for all games to hit in reference to FPS, right?
    If you never drop below 30 fps even at the worst of times (lots of action on-screen) you should be good. That's my psychovisual experience anyways.

    What then, would be the best gaming resolution taking everything I mentioned in account. (high... like 1800x1200, or low... like 1024x768), which both would be more Hi Def then your TV. Right?
    I wouldn't say "much more". 1800x1200 is only a few more pixels than 1920x1080 in a different shape.

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    • #3
      Re: hi-def and PC video...

      If the human eye really can't see any better then 30 plus FPS, then 30 something should be the goal for all games to hit in reference to FPS, right?
      The difference between movies and games is that movies record blurring. Games are sharp, rendered images that are displayed really fast to give the sense of animation. Movies are the same but don't require a high FPS because blurred movement gives the sense of animation.
      Originally posted by Magnum50 View Post
      What then, would be the best gaming resolution taking everything I mentioned in account. (high... like 1800x1200, or low... like 1024x768), which both would be more Hi Def then your TV. Right?
      Yes, PC gaming has been high def for a long time. Improvements to image quality has always been higher texture resolutions and more detailed models. High resolution PC gaming faded when anti-aliasing performance increased. It's started to become important again since large LCD monitors have high native resolutions.

      One interesting thing to try is playing a DVD (not HD-DVD) on your computer. You might notice that it doesn't look as good compared to a regular TV (480p). Monitors have been awesome at detail and only recently has TV's caught up by using HD.

      As for an optimal resolution for PC gaming, it's something you have to try out. You may be limited to what your monitor supports, especially if it's an LCD monitor. 1600x1200 is a good resolution to play games. Personally, I don't notice a huge difference between 1600x1200 and 1280x1024. Anything higher than 1280x1024 makes images less jaggy to me, which is the old way of minimizing aliasing. With LCD monitors becoming more widespread, just make sure that it's running at the native resolution. Anything lower that's upscaled doesn't look that sharp.

      - It's who you game with.

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      • #4
        Re: hi-def and PC video...

        ^^ What RandomGuy said. Oh.. and SARC

        30-32 FPS is when 'smooth' visual reference breaks down.

        It is entirely possible (and documented at Tom's Hardware I think) that an X1900XTX exceeds the capabilities of the high end processors that were on the market at release. So hitting that CPU barrier isn't unheard of.. FTR - mine does it too.
        sigpic


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        • #5
          Re: hi-def and PC video...

          http://www.maximumpc.com/forums/view...141&highlight=
          I don't know if the previous link was helpful to you. But the gentleperson that wrote that thread has in the past. Posted some very informative and thought provoking information for the general population at the MaxPC forums regarding multimedia.
          Last edited by amu107.9; 12-03-2006, 01:32 AM.

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          • #6
            Re: hi-def and PC video...

            480i (640x480)= SDTV = 30 interlaced frames per second (60 even / odd refreshes per second)
            480p (720x480)= EDTV = 60 non-interlaced FPS (60 full-frame refreshes per second)
            720p (1280x720)= HDTV = 60 non-interlaced FPS (60 full-frame refreshes per second)
            1080i (1920x1080)= HDTV = 30 interlaced FPS (60 even / odd refreshes per second)
            1080p (1920x1080)= HDTV = 60 non-interlaced FPS (60 full-frame refreshes per second)

            the interlaced signal is still a 60 hz refresh... it just refreshes even lines THEN odd lines, making a 30 fps full refresh, but 60 times per second the screen actually updates.

            these are the only acceptable resolutions for NTSC TV. The next time you are looking for a computer screen, keep that magical 1920x1080 number in mind (1920x1200 will be the laptop screen size)
            Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -Albert Einstein
            The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. -Harlan Ellison

            If all else fails: "rm -rf /"

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            • #7
              Re: hi-def and PC video...

              I'm thinking you want something on the PC end to look gorgeous like your "HDTV" does. Honestly, there's so many factors in your PC hardward and software setup to account for in how nice your displayed (stuff) looks like. It's not like TVs and console systems, where it isn't always changing (dynamic), so they come out with predefined standards and such and try to maximize it to such a standard, because it'll be quite a few years before they will have to come up with a higher end standard.

              Our games do look better, but is your monitor as high-end has your TV is? Or are you using the best connection between your GFX card and monitor as you are between your 360 and your HDTV? Are the games graphics really using the full potential of your hardware? (probably not, unless consoles, where they strive to be...because it'll be a few years before the hardware gets updated)

              And best gaming resolution, really comes down to what kind of framerates your GFX card and system can churn out when there is action going on at the various resolutions. So for example, 1280x1024 @ 60 fps is going to be a lot nicer than say 1920x1080 @ 30 fps. Motion on the former res is smoother and "lag" is less noticable (if at all) then at the latter resolution.
              |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
              TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
              Former 9th & 13th

              Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
              Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





              SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

              TG Primer and Rules

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              • #8
                Re: hi-def and PC video...

                This month's PC Magazine has a very informative article on this subject. It's a short article using broad brush strokes, but it's a pretty good and quick primer on the subject. The long and the short of the article is that a pc with a high def tuner and DVR software is easy to build and use but it is still plays second fiddle to a traditional high def tv with dvd/dvr capability. Each does their own thing well but not good enough to replace one another. The time is coming however when a pc or similar component will be a staple of home entertainment systems.
                sigpic
                |TG-1st|Grunt
                ARMA Admin (retired)
                Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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                • #9
                  Re: hi-def and PC video...

                  Originally posted by Magnum50;605332
                  If the human eye really can't see any better then 30 plus FPS, then 30 something should be the goal for all games to hit in reference to FPS, [B
                  right?[/B]
                  This is not true. I can easily detect the difference between 30 fps, 60 fps, and 100 fps. 30 fps is fine on tv because of the aformentioned blurred animation. Everything is always perfectly sharp in games so you need the higher FPS.

                  I also remember reading that the human eye cannot notice the difference of anything over a 60 hz refresh rate. This is also not true.

                  I usually have my monitor set at an 85hz refresh rate. I tried playing BF2142 at 1280 and while my video card could easily push out the frame rate for a smooth game, the forced lower refresh rate of 75 hz really bothered me to the point where I turned it down to avoid the "tearing" associated with that lower rate.

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                  • #10
                    Re: hi-def and PC video...

                    The average human naked eye cannot discern the difference in some object moving faster than 60 mph or some monitor with a 60 hz refresh or higher.

                    So for you, you are one of the special ones who can discern differences better than the average naked human eye. Yay for you! :D But boohoo for the rest of us :(
                    |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
                    TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
                    Former 9th & 13th

                    Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
                    Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





                    SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

                    TG Primer and Rules

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: hi-def and PC video...

                      I don't really notice flickering on CRT monitors at 60Hz but it will hurt my eyes after a while. If I change the refresh rate to 75Hz or higher, it feels a lot better.

                      - It's who you game with.

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