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  • Thoughts on build?

    OK, well I exited a hectic period in my life about a couple weeks ago, but there's still some aftershock. I've been researching bits, here and there ever since I posted those huge reams of builds, and just on Friday and yesterday did I get a chance to do some real research, so I did so late into the night on both days, and also my cousin just made sure everything was decent enough, and was a huge help in telling me what I needed in terms of mobo especially.

    So here it is, and it's a work in progress (note, I will be looking around for better prices when I order everything in the end):

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    CPU:
    Intel Core 2 Quad Pro Q6600 "Energy Efficient SLACR 95W Edition" 2.40GHz (1066FSB)

    RAM:
    OCZ 4GB (2x2GB) PC2-6400C4 800MHz Reaper HPC Enhanced Bandwidth Edition Dual Channel DDR2

    MOBO:
    MSI P7N Diamond nForce 780i SLi (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard with Free Creative X-FI Card

    HARD DRIVES:
    Maxtor Diamondmax 22 500GB SATA-II 32MB Cache - OEM (x2)

    OPTICAL DRIVE:
    LG GSA-H55LBRL 20x DVD±RW IDE Dual Layer Lightscribe ReWriter (Black)

    PSU:
    Enermax Galaxy 1000W EGX1000EWL ATX2.2 Modular PSU

    CASE:
    Thermaltake VA7000BWA Shark Aluminium Full Tower - Black

    Plus the 9800GTX when it comes out and a few extra fans...


    Water cooling kits - maybe:

    Swiftech H20 120 Compact Kit

    Thermaltake Big Water 760i Bay Mounted Watercooling Kit - Thermaltake specific cooling that will fit case

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The first thing you may notice comparing this to the old builds I posted is the huge drop in price, and this is due to the realisation that I can get a very decent system for under £2000. I'm being a lot less liberal with my spending and have set a budget of £1500, but I'd rather not be within 200 or so pounds of that.

    The reason for the excessive cooling and PSU is because I want to OC my CPU to above 3GHz, probably closer to 3.5, hopefully closer to 4.

    The 9800GTX is only if it is a high-end, boundary breaking beast. Otherwise I'll just get a 8800GTX and wait for the next series of nVidia GPU's to allow me to play Crysis on High with more like 50 - 60 FPS, compared to the magic 25 number I keep hearing about the 8800GTX.

    I would have liked a better case but the problem is that I have this computer desk kinda thing built into my wall, and the dimensions aren't huge, plus I'd like to leave some space for wires to fit and cable modem to be put on top of the PC and there's a multi-plug adaptor stuck on the inside, so there's extra little restrictions on each side. Dimensions of hole in wall are:

    26.5 cm = 10.4 in (width)

    56 cm = 22.04 in (depth)

    57 cm = 22.4 in (height)

    The case was the hardest to find, since I was looking for a compromise between right size that can fit, but enough to fit all components (so basically small and big at the same time :D), then price, quality, cooling, and easiness of installing other things into case (due to this being my 1st ever build), including water cooling. The Shark was the best by far in terms of achieving all this, and removing those pretty useless plastic feet may reduce height by an inch or two, and even that can make a difference.

    Due to the nature of how I want to overclock, do you think I need the water cooling, or just the fans, or both? If I need cooling, which is the best of the two? Also, take into consideration I've never built a PC, or even opened one up before, so try to take ease of installation into account due to my n00biness.


    Oh yh, and I've decided to go with building it myself as opposed to a ready-made desktop...if you hadn't noticed ;).
    Anger is a gift - Malcolm X


  • #2
    Re: Thoughts on build?

    Ok, 1st up good job on choosing to build this yourself. It is a lot easier than you think and there are a million guides online.
    But some things to consider.
    First up, your PSU is way way way overkill, unless you are planning to go like tri-sli or something.
    http://www.tacticalgamer.com/hardwar...t-psu-buy.html
    Look through that thread, and then on the 2nd page there is a link to a decent PSU caculator. It is not exact, but will come close.
    I am running a q6600 at 3.0, will no extra voltage added, and I could go a lot higher I am sure, but really don't need to.
    If you are going to wait for the 9800GTX (I would too at this point), then you might as well get the new Intel quads that will be out at the same time for the same price as the quads out now (once the initial crazy rush to get them is over). They are going to let you go to close to 4.0 without the need for water cooling. And you are talking about how little room you have to fit your case.
    You do know that a water cooler takes up a lot of room too, right? And for a novice, water cooling can be very hard to do. You mess up, and you fry everything. There are some new extreme coolers that will be shown at the CeBIT show this week, so keep an eye on that thread here on TG for them. There is 1 that I am extremely interested in that is a closed H2O system.
    Read about it here: The OCZ Hydrojet
    Also, here is a really good review of a ton of coolers:
    http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling...spx?i=2981&p=1
    Look on page 3 for the big charts that will show where they rate. I went with the Ultra120 in that review because of it's scores there and on every other review site. Keeps my CPU nice and chilly, and is very quiet. I am only running it with 1 fan, but it is designed to allow 2 if you wanted.
    Also, with this desk thing you have, where is all the hot air from you rig going to go? Is it just building up in the back of a cubby hole? That's not good. Might want to see how the fans on that case are arranged, and if you can reverse them so it pulls air from the back and blows it forward. Or you might need to cut an exhaust hole in the cubby to let the hot air out.

    As for the memory, here is that memory on newegg.com. I know you can't order it from there, but if you read the comments it will tell you a lot more you might want to know about it.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227267
    Got good reviews out of the 40 people there.

    That brings up what OS you are looking to get. You know about the 32 bit OS memory limit I take it, so will you be getting 64bit?

    Here is your motherboard on newegg.com
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130158
    so you can read the reviews. It is a pretty new board, so only has 12 reviews so far, but they are good ones. Notice that they say free X-Fi sound card, but it is the audio card, not extreme gamer card, so not sure if it does the like EAX and other stuff.
    MSI has been making some good boards lately, and this one does have a lot of features. Just google around and make sure the hard core tech sites like it too in their reviews.

    I would say no on the DVD optical drive. You are buying a top of the line MB, and it has a ton of SATA connections. USE THEM!! They are so much easier to use than IDE, so you don't have to worry about the horrible fat gray cables, just the nice skinny red ones, and it is just plug and play. That will help with your airflow, running of wires, and installing for a novice.
    Here are the SATA ones from that site:
    http://www.overclockers.co.uk/produc...d=10&subid=951
    Compare those with the ones here:
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...k=&srchInDesc=
    Look for the ones on newegg that have a lot of good reviews, and then find that one on your site. I noticed your site doesn't have that many user comment reviews. Might want to consider having 2 drives, since they are so cheap. I love being able to keep 2 disks in at a time, or for copying. I am even considering adding a 3rd, since they are so cheap and easy to install. That way I never have to take my BF2 disk out.

    Hate to say it, but The Simpsons, Family Guy, and American Dad are all new tonight, so will have to finish this later tonight.
    Will look at the harddrive and some options for your PSU.
    Get you hooked up right, and for the $$ you want.
    Have any questions and are still up, post back.

    LINKS

    * *


    Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at.

    -Carlos A. Urbizo-

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Thoughts on build?

      I'm grinning from ear-to-ear Bamboo. I've read through, and I'm so tempted to start re-making my build and going through those links, but it's about 1:30 here and I gotta get up at 6 tomorrow, so I'm gonna do the responsible thing and check them tomorrow.

      A really big thanks for your help, very much appreciated.
      Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Thoughts on build?

        My suggestion: dump the Maxtor hard drive. Get one of the newer WDs (shocking eh? me suggesting WDs...) or a 7200.10 Seagate.

        There aren't many Maxtors that are still alive today to tell their tale.


        To reiterate on Bamboo's point: the Enermax 1000W PSU is overkill.

        A 650W Corsair would be enough to handle your future rig with ease.
        |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
        TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
        Former 9th & 13th

        Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
        Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





        SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

        TG Primer and Rules

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Thoughts on build?

          Not much I can add to this. I love my Corsair PSU 620w.

          I would hold off on going hardcore with the water cooling setup. From what little I know about them it is usually prefered to buy the parts you need then a pre-bundled kit. Second I would make sure your case has lots of room or you will need to have space to place a radiator outside your case.

          Try overclocking with the stock cooler and see where you end up. After that a nice quality air cooling set up may suffice for you instead of WC. I would see where your limitation(s) are for overclocking instead of assuming temperature is going to limit you first.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Thoughts on build?

            Ok, as Acreo Aeneas said above, I have never heard anything good about Maxor. One of the 1st computer magizines I remember reading a few years ago had a thing about how bad they were.
            They may have improved since then, but better to just go with a good Western Digital or Seagate. We just had a many page thread about Seagate drives, just search the forums like 3-6 pages ago. I am running a 320gig Seagate as I said in the thread, and haven't had any problems.
            PSU is pretty wide open as far as brand, as long as it is a good one. Just take the time to decide if you want mod. cables or not, and also look at all the connectors to make sure you have all they you could want. I went with the Corsiar because it had long cables, mod. cables, and I really choose it because the GPU connections it had. It has the new PCI-E socket connectors.
            Again, newegg.com is more like a library for me than anything. Even if you can't order from them, you can look at all their reviews and product pictures and details.

            LINKS

            * *


            Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at.

            -Carlos A. Urbizo-

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Thoughts on build?

              Just to keep you guys posted, and to give a huge thanks for all of your help, I decided I'd make a little post about what I've found so far on the advice you've given me.

              New optical drive. - I found this on OCUK, but Newegg is way better at specifying, and it has more customer reviews, as you pointed out. I compared it to two other drives I found, by Asus and Samsung. You might expect the Asus and Samsung ones to be better, but looking at the specs and customer reviews, the cheaper Sony ones seems a better option. If you see the 2nd product review, you can see the advice I can take on board there, as it seems the only problem that may occur (Asus and Samsung drives on Newegg). The only slight concern I have with this one is that it has no sort of instructions, etc. For people who regular mod their computer, where to put an optical drive is fairly simple for them, but I'm sure It may take me a little longer to find my way. Also, the list of "features" aren't as long as the other two's, and the only part that's slower is the DVD-/+R DL speeds (and also wondering what DL is).

              I thought 1000W may be a little high, so I've decided to lower it...to 850W. This is too high too right? Hoping I can get your approval, because after I put in more or less (probably more) of what I'm going to have in my future unit, I got a wattage of 835. I also put stuff on high% loads and like the TDP and all that, plus a few extra fans, which I'll probably be getting, and I did a 8800 Ultra, when I may be getting a 9800 GTX which, if it's an uber-pwning monster, will probably suck up a little more power.

              Just some questions on the process :

              What is a Solid-State Disk (SSD Drives)?
              I don't think I'd have any extra PCI Cards, or any extra PCI-e cards other than GPU, right?
              USB drives - Do you count this if you have a USB mouse that's constantly in?
              Will I be getting a fan controller (rephrased: are they any good)?
              After a little reading I put my TDP back down to the recommended level of 85%. Could I go up to 90%? Also, why does the peak load have that recommendation (what is it, basically)?

              Sorry, long questions.

              Anyway, I think I'll definitely pass on that water cooling suggestion I made. Although, the case I got was designed to hold some sort of water cooling system, and the customer reviews said that there was plenty of space for that kind of thing, so...

              In terms of the hard drive, I was considering the 500GB Seagate Barracuda instead of the Maxtor, but looking at the description's, they look very similar, and on the thread started by Acreo, it seems that "Seagate are cashing in on their name to sell Maxtor rubbish." This maybe the case here. I saw both when I 1st decided on the Maxtor, because they were pretty much identical, except for the price of the Maxtor. One guy seems to have got the Seagate problem in the Newegg customer reviews, and I'm worried about spending a good £130 on two drives that implode after a couple days of me being so happy I built my shiny new box for my hole in the wall...However, reviews for last 2 weeks have not had any problems, so it looks promising. Looking at the Maxtor though on Newegg, it doesn't look bad...

              I know of the 4GB problem, but I think I still want to stay in my XP comfort zone for a while before I upgrade. I'm not the best with computers, least of all software, and bugs and glitches aren't my thing. I'll upgrade to Vista when I'm ready I think.

              More of my thoughts on posts already done by you guys (especially Bamboo) to come, but I'm in a little bit of a hurry, hectic life and all that.
              Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Thoughts on build?

                SSDs or Solid-State Disks is basically a bunch of flash memory crammed into a 2.5"/1.5" HDD size platform that you can use instead of a typical hard disk drive.

                They eat less power and are usually recommended and used in portables systems...like UMPCs, PDA Smartphones, etc. Examples are the Everex Cloudbook (the VP of our, DePaul's, Linux User Group just bought one) and the ASUS EEE PC.

                They don't, however, currently have the read or write speeds of a traditional hard drive. As for longetivity, they might outlast a typical hard drive by a few years with typical usage.


                Summary: not for gaming (yet).


                If you really want to throw down $$$ on a Maxtor, no one here is going to stop you. Several of us have just had a horrid experience with Maxtors failing on us no matter how well we took care of them.

                As I/we concluded in my thread on Seagate/Maxtor drives: it was probably a bad batch of drives. It happens every 1 out of 100 drive shipments as it does with everything else.

                Another thing to keep in mind is a lot of these short reviews don't go into detail. So they could have bought $30 PSUs for a $3000 rig. In which case, the PSU could have had a surge go through it and that surge could have hit the HDD and fried it.



                As for the DVD Burners you picked out...it shouldn't really matter. The Sony, Samsung, and the ASUS models should fit you fine.

                Personally, I stay away from NEC products. They haven't had the best reliability the last few years with some of their consumer products (monitors, etc.).
                |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
                TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
                Former 9th & 13th

                Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
                Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





                SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

                TG Primer and Rules

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Thoughts on build?

                  About your question in the other thread, like I said, if you are waiting till like the end of the month or early next, you should just go ahead and get something from Intel's new quads, either the q9300 or q9450
                  http://techreport.com/discussions.x/13878
                  Either of those is going to be a lot faster at stock than the q6600, and overclock way higher as well.

                  Here are some very early reviews to show you:
                  http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...uad-q9300.html
                  http://www.hardware.info/productdb/b..._2_Quad_Q9450/

                  At stock they are saying you are only going to be about 3-5% faster, but it is on the 45nm process, so it should be able to overclock as crazy good as the e8400 and e8500 have.
                  I think I linked here to a guy that had the e8400 up to 4.5GHz on air.

                  If not, than just know that intel is having a pricecut on April 20th, with the q6600 going down to $224

                  EDIT::::::::::::::::::::
                  If you live in the US near a MicroCenter computer store, they are selling the q6600 for $199, instore only!!!!!
                  http://www.microcenter.com/index.html
                  And they finally have some e8400 in, and it is $199 as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (but can ship to you)
                  Last edited by Bamboo; 03-04-2008, 01:18 PM.

                  LINKS

                  * *


                  Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at.

                  -Carlos A. Urbizo-

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Thoughts on build?

                    Hmm Acreo, I was afraid you were going to say that about the Sony one. The ones made by companies less renowned for being specialist, are usually more unreliable...

                    After spending a while looking, I can't seem to find a good drive, without reviews of it being blown up or something like that. Can anyone with one or two decent DVD-RW SATA drives (most preferably with lightscribe) just tell me what they have please. Or just find me an optical drive on the net (if you don't mind, or know of something), because I don't know how, but I can't seem to find a decent one...(will not want to spend more than £5 on each one, and even that's pushing it a bit).

                    I'll go with the 2 Seagates instead of the Maxtor then...just to make you guys happy ;).

                    @Bamboo, I did already look at the 9300 and 9450. Problem with 9300 was the lower cache, and the 9450 was pushing the price a little high. I don't really have a restriction, but I would like to keep it down, and I do think the Q6600 will be enough for me...

                    On OCing easier, I didn't know about that, but from the 100 reviews or so on that overclockers site, it seems that general consensus was that the Q6600 is easy to OC.

                    Oh, and I'm not sure if I forgot to mention, but I'm getting everything in the Summer, not just waiting for GPU, but I think others will find that edit on CPU prices useful.
                    Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Thoughts on build?

                      Man don't waste your brain worring about the optical drives, since they are one of the cheapest parts of the computer.
                      I just looked at what the most highly recommended ones on Newegg were, then googled for some real reviews (and there are some reviews out there that went way over my head), just to back up the buyers comments.
                      In the end, I went with Asus because of a couple good articles, and the fact that it comes with Nero program for free. I paid for the full retail version and it was like $32 or something. You really don't need 2 burners, so I just got a Asus DVD-ROM drive for $18. Have been very happy with them, and 1 reason is how quiet they are. My last DVD burner was a Sony that was loud and annoying. Not saying the new ones are, just pointing that out to consider. My Sony also came with a copy of Nero as well.

                      As far as SSD, I am dreaming of the day when they are as fast and cheap and as big as normal HDs, but that won't be for a good while. Right now the 32gig ones come close in performance on some of them, but I am not paying $750-$1000. It is a $1000 option in the new Mac Air laptop from Apple for instance. Just not worth it.

                      I really don't think you will have a problem at all adjusting to Vista, and now that you are saying summer, you are getting even closer to that 2009 Micro$oft cutoff for XP. It really isn't that different, and not worth buying XP this summer and then when all the cool DX10 games hit at Christmas and early next year, having to buy Vista.

                      And yeah, didn't know you were looking at summer build time. By then, the q6600 should be on its way out completely (that is why they are dropping the price and having big sales now.) Things move fast when new CPUs are out, and chances are it will actually be hard to find a 6600 by the end of summer. Depending on when in the summer the 9450 may have come down already also.
                      Yes, the q6600 is very easy to overclock, but the new ones will be even better. And put less of a strain on your PSU and less heat into your system.

                      I wish they would release some info on the 9800GTX too. At least by summer it should have come down to normal price levels after the beginning early rush drives the price up.

                      LINKS

                      * *


                      Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at.

                      -Carlos A. Urbizo-

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Thoughts on build?

                        On the subject of overclocking, here is the e8400 doing 4.4 "easily"
                        http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...5871&Itemid=40

                        "If you guessed that the new Intel CPU will consume considerably less power compared to the 65nm CPUs, you are right. Overclocked to 4GHz the E8400 manages to consume only 10W more compared to our overclocked E6700 at 3GHz, and far less compared to an E6700 at 3.60GHz."

                        "If you have been waiting for the new 45nm CPUs, then you made the right choice. This CPU is the best dual-core you can get for your money right now."

                        Can't wait to see what the quads can do.

                        LINKS

                        * *


                        Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at.

                        -Carlos A. Urbizo-

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Thoughts on build?

                          OMG!!! A Quad Core for $139!! By the way is UK currency the sma e as US or is it more cause that is cheap. I might get that cause the CPU I wanted the E4600 runs also at 2.4GHZ but its is a dual core and its almost $30 more :)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Thoughts on build?

                            It is about half what the US dollar is, so that 139 is about $278 us dollars
                            It is a bit off, because the $ changes constantly, and the UK has something called VAT that I have never quite understood, but I think is like sales tax here in the US.
                            The Euro on the other hand is about equal to the US $ right now, and the symbol for the Pound and Euro look pretty close.

                            LINKS

                            * *


                            Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at.

                            -Carlos A. Urbizo-

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Thoughts on build?

                              Originally posted by Bamboo View Post
                              It is about half what the US dollar is, so that 139 is about $278 us dollars
                              It is a bit off, because the $ changes constantly, and the UK has something called VAT that I have never quite understood, but I think is like sales tax here in the US.
                              The Euro on the other hand is about equal to the US $ right now, and the symbol for the Pound and Euro look pretty close.
                              Heh, VAT is Value Added Tax, and yh, it's just like a tax on the sales, calculated at a % of the amount sold on for at each production/distribution process...or something like that. It's like a tax added together at all the stages that come before the product reaching the consumer - i.e. 1st when the manufacturer buys the raw materials, then when the manufacturer sells the product onto a distributor etc. All of those little taxes are added together at the end, actually for the seller to pay, not the consumer, but for some goods its allowed to be passed onto the consumer...I dno, it's just a tax on something or other...and the magic number is 17.5% (standard rate).

                              P.S. Don't quote me on any of this because I'm not 100% sure. People just charge me for it and I pay it :D. Also, there are different types of VAT - the part about 17.5% I think is mainly UK as opposed to other countries.

                              Edit: Lol, forgot about the main post I was going to do :o.

                              Yh, I'll seriously consider Vista in the Summer, but I'm not sure...

                              And also, what you said about the 9450. I think I'll go for that, the price would have fallen and it will give me even better performance, and I won't have to get the really crazy cooling I was considering.

                              I think I may take the NEC option, due to those very good specs and decent customer reviews I've seen (not just on Newegg). Plus it's fairly cheap, but I'll have a further look around tomorrow. And yes, I know, it's ridiculous that I'm stressing over the optical drives, but I can't find one that just seems to WORK NORMALLY WITHOUT IMPLODING. The only bad spec seems to be the DVD-/+R DL speeds (also wondering what DL is, and if that will make much of a difference).

                              Also the GTX - Is it set for release like March/April, right?
                              Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

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