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  • PSU, UPS, ???, Profit!

    If you speak PSU and UPS, please read on. I've tried (and failed) to keep it short, but I don't want to leave out any useful information. Forgive me for what of the following is useless. I searched for 'approximated' and 'simulated' and found no threads. Forgive me if this has been covered before.

    Sudden power outage at the house last night. All of the following (and only the following) were powered on (and idle) through my APC ES 550 when the power went. The UPS immediately gave me a "constant tone" with "no visual indicators" (lovely to wake to at 0330), a combination the manual describes as caused by an "Overload Shutdown".

    Plugged into the Surge Protection Only outlets when the power went out:
    • oscillating floor fan
    • 37" HDTV (it was "powered off" at the time, though it still draws some power?)
    • low-end printer


    Plugged into the Battery Backup outlets when the power went out:


    Everything turned back on (still plugged through the UPS) when I asked it to, except the new beast. Power supply wouldn't turn back on. Two beeps from the PSU when I try to use it. Manual recommends reset button. No help. Same manual cites "Connector terminals are short-circuited" as cause of problem given the PSU's behavior (Two-beep pattern and it won't power on), and recommends that I contact the manufacturer.

    I find more language in the PSU manual that advises me toward a "Sine Wave type" UPS, explaining that the PSU is "not compatible with Simulated Sine Wave type" UPS.

    Google and I can't find that kind of language when we're researching my ES 550. The UPS manual states that it uses a "step-approximated sine wave", but Google and I can't figure out if that's the same thing as a "Simulated Sine Wave" (I've told Google that they sound suspiciously similar).

    Google and I feel dumb. Mostly me, actually.

    I've screwed up, I think, and I have to fix it, but I need the help of you smart people to know what exactly I did wrong.

    Did I just abuse the UPS? Should the PSU have failed more gracefully than it has, despite that (I've already RMA'd this PSU once, after a power outage without a UPS; despite these two power failures, both PSUs have performed wonderfully for me)?

    Do I just replace the PSU and get a different UPS to use? Is the UPS a good match for what I'm asking, and I just need a new PSU model?

    Many thanks for any advise/recommendations.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

  • #2
    Re: PSU, UPS, ???, Profit!

    Try unplugging the computer and then disconnecting the PSU from the motherboard completely. Wait a minute or so and reconnect everything. Finally plug the computer into the UPS and retest. Some power supplies have short circuit protection that will trip and prevent the unit from turning on. Unplugging the PSU from the mobo will usually reset it.
    Retired 6th DB

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    • #3
      Re: PSU, UPS, ???, Profit!

      I have also had issues with PSU's and power outages. I have had situations where I thought I had a dead PSU to find it worked again after a short time.
      There is a procedure for "jumping" or "jump starting" a PSU. WARNING! Make sure you fully understand what your doing before getting into it. It involves connecting two of the leads on your PSU with a paper clip and hooking up a few items to your PSU (running a PSU with nothing attached will kill it).

      Past that I don't know anything about USP's.

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      • #4
        Re: PSU, UPS, ???, Profit!

        Forgive the necromancy.

        Recap: power failed at the house. UPS was simulated sine (instead of true sine, as is its replacement), and the PSU never worked again (the PSU's manual clearly states that it doesn't support simulated sine UPS). Error beeps from the PSU gave clear indication that the PSU was not healthy. The override/reset/whatever button on the PSU (not talking about the power switch on the computer's case) was unresponsive, and its error beeps couldn't be stopped when the computer was turned on. Only cutting power to the PSU stopped the beeps. The computer did not work.

        Jump to today. Newegg has replaced (or repaired, I'm not sure -- they say the PSU I have just received should work) the PSU. The cables are as they were before. When the computer powers on, I get the same beeps from the PSU as I did before, but the PSU's override/reset/whatever button responds now, allowing me to stop the PSU beeping (without cutting power). The PSU is plugged directly into the wall (so the UPS variable isn't in play, yet -- I don't expect surprises there).

        All of the fans (case, PSU, CPU, video, etc) power on, but I never get a POST beep of any kind. I've reseated the video and RAM, and the only things plugged into the PSU are mainboard, CPU, and video card.

        It's late, and I'm going to bed defeated. Maybe it will all magically fire up tomorrow morning, but I'm not holding my breath.

        Many thanks for any recommendations or thoughts.
        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: PSU, UPS, ???, Profit!

          So wait. PSU is beeping? I don't think PSUs can beep. I don't think they have a speaker even.

          You are 110% sure everything is plugged into the right spot. I cleaned my computer out this weekend, and forgot to put the video card plug all they way back in, and got a similar error sound.

          If this is still happening, and you have tried plugging the computer into a few different outlets around the house (either moving the computer or using a really good high quality extension cord), then I'm guessing you need a new PSU. You could always buy one and then return it if it isn't the problem.

          LINKS

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          Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at.

          -Carlos A. Urbizo-

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          • #6
            Re: PSU, UPS, ???, Profit!

            Is it still giving the "Overload protection" indication? I am looking at the Infiniti datasheet (they don't have the manual online) and here is what it has listed for beeps versus LED status:

            LED RED, Two beeps interval -> PSU protection Active
            LED Blinking RED, short beeps -> PSU Fan abnormal

            Is it giving you one of these? If it is the PSU protection then it sounds like you have a bad component in your system that is causing your PSU to go into protection mode. Try pulling out the video card and retest. Try the same with the RAM.

            You may also want to give the motherboard a good visual inspection. Look for signs of heat like a brownish color around a component.
            Retired 6th DB

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            • #7
              Re: PSU, UPS, ???, Profit!

              What you guys have recommended in the last two posts reads like a narrative of the last 24 hours here. Motherboard looks great. Beeps are definitely coming from the PSU, which is complaining, it seems, about protection.

              I bought another 700W power supply local today. POST occurs without error with the new power supply. I don't know enough about all of this to discount whatever favors the ENERMAX PSU is trying to do me with its protection feature(s), but I've reseated everything, and all looks well, and the POST occurs correctly with the new (cheaper) PSU, so am I just really ignorant to prefer "working, and maybe less safe" over "safest, but unusable"?

              To be clear, the final things I did after addressing whatever else I've addressed during this troubleshooting: try one more time with ENERMAX, verify failure, replace with local buy, verify success. No "reseating"/etc occurred after replacing the ENERMAX.

              Current plan: RMA this PSU (for the third time) with Newegg. I don't know if I'll sell it (I don't think I'll get a reimburse this far along, despite the high RMA count) or what, but now I get to research whether or not I'll keep this local buy or replace it with something more robust (I'll start another thread for that effort, if I need help).

              Anyone may recommend a change to the above. Otherwise, this is case closed, and I appreciate everyone's help.
              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: PSU, UPS, ???, Profit!

                I have owned a few UPS's. Big, small, ugly. All of them produce a simulated sine wave. I have never had a problem with any PSU running off these UPS's. From 30$ El Cheapo generics, «Antec comes with the case not bad 350W», to OCZ 700W GameXtream power supplies. If that Enermax is that finicky, ditch it, and never buy one again.

                DB
                Last edited by Dick Blonov; 08-13-2008, 12:11 AM.

                «That looks like a really nice house except for that horrible bathroom.» Donrhos

                | |





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                • #9
                  Re: PSU, UPS, ???, Profit!

                  Wyz, when you fill out the "replacement PSU form" on NewEgg, just put down that the "replacement was defective. System refused to power up."

                  Or reword it however you want to make sure they get the message that you want a "replacement". Sometimes if you don't make it clear, they end up shipping you back the same PSU you sent them.

                  As for PSU beeping, that's one of the features of some of Enermax's current high-end units. It's very weird, but is nice (like how mobo's used to have a attached speaker for beep error codes).
                  |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
                  TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
                  Former 9th & 13th

                  Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
                  Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





                  SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

                  TG Primer and Rules

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                  • #10
                    Re: PSU, UPS, ???, Profit!

                    The first RMA was a replacement. The second was a repair (I think). I plan on fighting for a replacement with the third, so that I can sell it elsewhere (I'll fight first for a refund outright).

                    If that's not the best approach, I'm all ears.
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: PSU, UPS, ???, Profit!

                      Newegg goes way out of their way to make people happy. I think if you tell them you are really POed and you want to exchange it for a completly different model from a differnet company, the fact that they still get to sell you something and are not just refunding your money they should go for it.

                      I can make some recommendations for PSUs if you like. By the way, what PSU did you buy local and how much was it? From what store?
                      And how much was the ernmax you are returning? (it is on sale right now, and I wanted to know what you actually paid. I can't believe it is $200)

                      EDIT:
                      Just looked though, and personally I like these if you wanted to still stay in that 750watt range. They have really good ratings and are from the companies I would buy from considering the reviews they get. I would narrow it down by features and warrenty. Got to say I LOVE Modular Cabling .

                      Pages:
                      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817256036

                      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817256017

                      As I posted yesterday, i can't believe the deal they have running on the PC Power and Cooling. Reg=$249 on sale for $109. And look how good the reviews are for it.
                      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817703009
                      84% gave it 5 eggs out of 332 reviewers. And it has two 6-pin to 8-pin PCI-E connectors

                      LINKS

                      * *


                      Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at.

                      -Carlos A. Urbizo-

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: PSU, UPS, ???, Profit!

                        Newegg is good, but they were quite plain on the phone today: replacement, no refund. I'll eBay it.

                        I purchased a "Rocketfish 700-Watt ATX CPU Power Supply" (RF-700WPS2). I've got (just under, now) 30 days to return it and get a refund, so I need to decide quickly what I'm going to keep and what I'm not.

                        Am I foolish to insist that my power supply have more than one rail? Will having only one rail increase the odds of my parts being harmed later when something unexpected happens with the power?

                        What don't you (anyone, really) like about the PC Power & Cooling S75QB? 86% approval over 330+ reviews isn't too shabby, and a 5-year warranty?
                        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: PSU, UPS, ???, Profit!

                          Multiple rails is actually something no one has actually confirmed for PSUs. Some think it is real. Others think it's more of a marketing ploy. Either way, it does make some sense to split power loads of devices across 2 or more "rails".

                          Either way, as long as the PSU puts out enough amperage and watts to support all of your hardware, it's fine, even if it's done on one +12V rail.


                          I'm not sure how much faith I have in a BestBuy generic branded PSU. I guess I'd have to find out who the OEM of the PSU actually is (done through a UL listing look up).


                          I have nothing against PC P&C PSUs. They make rock solid stuff good enough to use on server racks. I don't think Bam has anything against them either (or OCZ, the parent company).
                          |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
                          TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
                          Former 9th & 13th

                          Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
                          Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





                          SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

                          TG Primer and Rules

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: PSU, UPS, ???, Profit!

                            Originally posted by Wyzcrak View Post
                            Am I foolish to insist that my power supply have more than one rail? Will having only one rail increase the odds of my parts being harmed later when something unexpected happens with the power?

                            What don't you (anyone, really) like about the PC Power & Cooling S75QB? 86% approval over 330+ reviews isn't too shabby, and a 5-year warranty?
                            I struggled with that rail question as well, but my PSU has only 1, and it got some REALLY good reviews from trusted tech sites. As does PC Power and Cooling, and the rest of those brands I linked to.

                            LINKS

                            * *


                            Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at.

                            -Carlos A. Urbizo-

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