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  • Extended Range wireless networks

    So, I'm planning on some alternative housing until I can secure an apartment, living at my mom's house in a travel trailer. My family has a decent high-speed cable connection, and a wireless network (crappy as it is) that I set up for them.

    Heres the thing. I'm looking for a way to extend the wireless G signal that goes in through the house to the outside, in a more or less line of sight way (however, some treetrunks and brush may be blocking it.) Does anyone have some decently cheap (looking for possibly 100 or less) ideas for extending wireless from the crappy WRTG54 router through a house to an area perhaps 400-500 feet away?

    I would say cantennas, but i'm not sure a cheap pringles/juicecan pigtail wire cantenna or strainer-tenna will achieve any kind of meaningful signal at that kind of range. One thing i was considering was http://www.radiolabs.com/products/an...g/backfire.php at the incoming end, however, I'm unsure of how to extend the omnidirectional signal coming out of the house.

    I'm looking for a very reliable, high-speed (at least 11MBPS, preferrably 40-54) connection with minimal latency. Good enough to continue torrenting and gaming.

    <04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
    <04:16:25> "|TG-XV| Tralic": this channel is so gay
    DICE needs to make a comical boxing glove attached to a spring punch the player in the face 40% of the time they get into a helicopter or jet.


  • #2
    Re: Extended Range wireless networks

    I had a "customer" so to speak, with the same problem. Worse for me, everything was sheet metal on walls with expensive very dense fiberglass insulation. I ended up running 250'-0" of "good" CAT5 (secured in conduit along bottom of a fence) to another WRT54G at the end of that run (simply plugged the CAT5 into the "WAN" plug and then with the $20 hi-gain antennas from Radio shack, was able to maintain 54mb connection to the "barn".


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    • #3
      Re: Extended Range wireless networks

      You could get a range extender/access point, like one of these and hook it up to your router using a patch cable. Then just set the RE/AP somewhere between the trailer and your router.

      Then just access the network and the shared connection through the range extender.
      |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
      TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
      Former 9th & 13th

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      Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





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      • #4
        Re: Extended Range wireless networks

        Originally posted by Acreo Aeneas View Post
        You could get a range extender/access point, like one of these and hook it up to your router using a patch cable. Then just set the RE/AP somewhere between the trailer and your router.

        Then just access the network and the shared connection through the range extender.
        Difficulty with that is theres no place to stuff one of those besides open-air in the field, while running a long extension cable for power and exposing it to the elements. Furthermore, those range extenders like the linksys are the same omnidirectional antennas as the original router, spreading a weak signal in all directions.

        I whipped up a small diagram using google maps:



        I accidentally missplaced the arrow, the arrow should be pointing to the clear patch about 50 or so feet above it.

        As you can see, running a cable or powerline would require having to cut it into the driveway and through a large amount of field and lots of burying. One advantage is the house is about 15' or so higher elevation than the clearing and picnic area, and the router in the house is on the second floor.

        <04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
        <04:16:25> "|TG-XV| Tralic": this channel is so gay
        DICE needs to make a comical boxing glove attached to a spring punch the player in the face 40% of the time they get into a helicopter or jet.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Extended Range wireless networks

          Then you a high-gain directional antennae WAP (basically a one-way dish pointed on the trailer). Those could cost beyond $100. I don't think NewEgg sells any.

          I would go and check out Radio Shack to see if they carry any.

          Or follow Birdie's suggestion and run a ethernet cable with intermittet range boosters along the way.


          Honestly though, you're better off moving into the house when you need access. That looks like a very long distance even for range boosters.
          |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
          TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
          Former 9th & 13th

          Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
          Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





          SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

          TG Primer and Rules

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          • #6
            Re: Extended Range wireless networks

            I thought twisted pair has a horizontal limit around 150' or so.

            Personaly I would likely try to split the cable signal and run coaxial cable to a second cable modem in the trailer. Coax is cheep & comes shielded. You would likely need to pay for a second IP but that and the cable would be cheep. Where I live my cable company will just give you RG-6 cable if you tell them you need to put new wires in your house free of charge so they can charge you for service.

            You could run the wire west from the house to the end of the road and then follow the road back towards the trailer.

            baring that it is ... you know a "Travel" trailer .... you could move it closer :p

            EDIT: woops just looked it up the horizontal limit on twisted pair is 100 meters (330 feet).
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            • #7
              Re: Extended Range wireless networks

              Originally posted by Thesleeper01 View Post
              I thought twisted pair has a horizontal limit around 150' or so.

              ...

              EDIT: woops just looked it up the horizontal limit on twisted pair is 100 meters (330 feet).
              That's the theoretical limit. I don't think a connection's strength would be very strong at 300+ feet.


              Another option is to get a USB wireless broadband modem and sign up with a wireless internet provider (like Verizon) to get internet access.
              |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
              TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
              Former 9th & 13th

              Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
              Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





              SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

              TG Primer and Rules

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              • #8
                Re: Extended Range wireless networks

                Originally posted by Acreo Aeneas View Post
                Another option is to get a USB wireless broadband modem and sign up with a wireless internet provider (like Verizon) to get internet access.
                I haven't checked other zip codes, but here in Dallas none of the wireless companies offer an "unlimited" plan. They all cap out and start charging by the kilobyte after around 5 gigs... That's a no-go for me, and definitely something to consider for anyone.
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                • #9
                  Re: Extended Range wireless networks

                  I ran the results through some attenuation calculators. (did i mention i went to Computer Electronics Engineering trade school before? heh.) Thats why I decided against coax or CAT5/CAT6.

                  Cat5 runs on 24 AWG gauge cable. This is super-inefficient for long-distance. At 300 feet Cat5e has a load of ~10 ohms on it because of the resistance of the wire itself. (I'm not taking into account the added resistance/inefficiency because of Skin Effect loss, which, at ethernet signalling speeds, is very high.) This combined with the amperage of ethernet specifications (max power of 577mA) and line length introduces a voltage drop of 1.8v. 100BaseT uses a 1/-1v signal, which would wreak havoc on the signals made.

                  If I could find some way of using 12 or 14 guage wire and crimping that on STP, I'd be golden.

                  Cable has the same problems. RG-6 is better shielded and has less impedance then RG-58/59, but at the distances i'm talking about it loses 49dBi attenuation at digital cable frequencies. Thats a huge loss of signal.
                  haven't checked other zip codes, but here in Dallas none of the wireless companies offer an "unlimited" plan. They all cap out and start charging by the kilobyte after around 5 gigs... That's a no-go for me, and definitely something to consider for anyone.
                  Yeah, thats a no-go for me too, considering some of my patches (for example, the Global Agenda stuff, or a BF2 mod patch) can exceed 2.5gb at one go. Theres likely none of that out there anyway, that parts sparsley populated, the nearest city is about 6 miles away, and it's mostly farmland. It's difficult enough getting cellphone reception at the house, because the mountain opposite it blocks signal.

                  Moving the trailer isn't an option, because where the picnic area and clearing is, is where the guy who owned the house set up a place to park his RV. It already has electrical mains wiring, etc. I'l have to go over and investigate if it has a cable drop, which may make me in business to have my own. Of course it'l have to be with Comcast, and i'l be stuck with a 250gb/m limit :/

                  <04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
                  <04:16:25> "|TG-XV| Tralic": this channel is so gay
                  DICE needs to make a comical boxing glove attached to a spring punch the player in the face 40% of the time they get into a helicopter or jet.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Extended Range wireless networks

                    If you can get a hold of coax, have you considered 10Base-2 ?


                    Might need to do a bit of shopping, but I'm sure you can find some of these at a decent price.

                    Linkie.


                    DB

                    «That looks like a really nice house except for that horrible bathroom.» Donrhos

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                    • #11
                      Re: Extended Range wireless networks

                      Biscavaleret,

                      Well it looks like you're only option is a directional wireless dish with rangeboosters between. And you'll probably spend more than $100 to get it all set up.

                      Might just be a better idea of finding a room in your mom's house to live in or move the trailer closer to the house.
                      |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
                      TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
                      Former 9th & 13th

                      Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
                      Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





                      SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

                      TG Primer and Rules

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Extended Range wireless networks

                        This is, funnily enough, the exact same problem I was dealing with. I ended up cheating, and got the phone company to bury a whole new line spur.

                        BUT. Try setting up a cheapo omnidirectional with a parabolic signal booster -- basically a curved piece of aluminium foil behind it. Don't know what sort of range boost you'll get though, as I didn't end up going that route. Plus, my required range was more to the tune of 500m.

                        If you go the local Radio Shack route, you can always try it, and if you can't get a good enough signal return it to the store.




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                        <23:03:38> "|TG|Smachin<BF Admin>" was kicked from the server by "|TG-70th| Zhohar" (UNDERAGE ban.)
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                        • #13
                          Re: Extended Range wireless networks

                          Originally posted by Acreo Aeneas View Post
                          Biscavaleret,

                          Well it looks like you're only option is a directional wireless dish with rangeboosters between. And you'll probably spend more than $100 to get it all set up.

                          Might just be a better idea of finding a room in your mom's house to live in or move the trailer closer to the house.
                          Well it's more to the point. I'm trying to save both me and the fam money. They already pay for HSI and digital cable. At the moment i pay for DSL 1.5/384 for 71/month where i live (and practically nill other living expenses), but my contract's been up for 2 years now.

                          I'm unsure of Comcast's policies. The RV spot has a cable drop, I looked into it. However, the address is for the house, not the cable drop, adn they're already recieving cable. Cost to ME to get digital cable and HSI (for which it's wierd, because they refuse to give me the actual speed of the service, only "it's up to 15/20/30/50 mbps with Powerboost! (which is worthless anyway. extra 5-10 mbps speed for the first 10 megs of a file? WOO DOGGY!) would be around 136.99+taxes, fees, etc. Thats for the 20 with powerboost option and digital cable.

                          By splitting the network, i could recieve all that and save the family money (if comcast demands that they order a second service to service that line) or myself a lot of money. I can afford a one-time drop of 100-200 or so (and save up for the 299 it costs for a slingbox HD/digital) , not nearly 150/month every month, which is also why i was going to live out there with them, only being able to afford a 350-400/month apartment, breaking even in pay in an area where everything is 700+ with no cosigners/roomates) They're already paying that cost, if comcast tells them they need to order another service for 2 services they'd be paying over 300/month.

                          Another option occurred to me, using PoE injectors to power a router intermediately between the two.

                          <04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
                          <04:16:25> "|TG-XV| Tralic": this channel is so gay
                          DICE needs to make a comical boxing glove attached to a spring punch the player in the face 40% of the time they get into a helicopter or jet.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Extended Range wireless networks

                            PoE injectors?

                            God, I wish there was a good solution for you at around $300 or less, but the problem is that signal has to reach some 300-400 feet and go through at least two walls (1 metal and 1 wood/brick+drywall).

                            I'm actually taking a look at what you would need to boost your wireless network signal to reach that far and ignoring the fact that all of the equipment would be exposed to outside weather without protection...

                            Option / Idea 1

                            $50 - Swann Wireless Booster Antennae
                            - This would be attached to the transmit antennae of your router and can be exposed to outside weather (according to Radio Shack's website info).
                            - Would he need another one for receive? Does anyone know?

                            Next, assuming you have Wireless G, you would need:

                            $40 - TrendNet 802.11g WAP x ~4
                            - You would maybe need about 4 of these. I'm figuring G wireless signals offer "3 bars" of connectivity (which is considered good) up to about 100 feet from the base/AP. I figure there's at least 400 feet between the trailer and house (used the image map you provided).
                            - If you have a N router, you could maybe cut this down to 3 APs instead. N networks usually reach further than G networks, but from what I've read/heard of experiences it's only about 150 feet.

                            So total cost: $50 x 2 + $40 x 4 = $270 (before tax).

                            Option / Idea 2

                            We use some sort of powered dish setup that "beams" the signal over the distance. I'm kind of poking at the dark here, so take the following with a grain of salt as someone else might know how to do it. So two dishes on top of the house pointed at the two dishes affixed on top of your trailer. One dish at each end would be responsible for transmit and receive. (Someone please correct me on this as I've never done this before or seen it in action.)

                            I'm guessing we can substitute some powerful bidirectional antennaes instead of the dishes. I can't think of any other way to boost the signal between without APs.

                            Cost? I have no clue. Maybe you could build the needed dishes and then figure out a way to power those dishes? The antennaes might cost a lot more than $100 and I have no clue where to buy one that powerful.


                            In the end, you could maybe add a wireless bridge connection on your end (idea taken from one of ScratchMonkey's posts). It may offer a stronger connection than what you have in your PC?
                            |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
                            TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
                            Former 9th & 13th

                            Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
                            Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





                            SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

                            TG Primer and Rules

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                            • #15
                              Re: Extended Range wireless networks

                              PoE is power over ethernet. Not every device allows it though. Basically, at the one end, you have an injector placed into a wired port, thats also connected to the wall. Then run your ethernet cable as per normal. The power injector either sends 24-48v through the unused pairs in the wires, or somehow through the used wires. At the other end you put an adapter that splits off into an rj-45 and a power jack, to power the other device.

                              That wold possibly extend the signal out of the house, and out of the interferance with the walls, etc, into a more suitable location to set up a directional antenna without signal loss due to coax, etc (regular pigtails for antennas and such.)

                              <04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
                              <04:16:25> "|TG-XV| Tralic": this channel is so gay
                              DICE needs to make a comical boxing glove attached to a spring punch the player in the face 40% of the time they get into a helicopter or jet.

                              Comment

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