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A good argument

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  • #16
    Re: A good argument

    Sadly I wished some of these false arguments just stayed on online message boards. I can't tell you how many times I've been asked 'So you'd kill your own child' when I state that I support abortion. Personally if I had the choice I'd probably keep the baby, but it's not my right to tell others what to do with their body.

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    • #17
      Re: A good argument

      I never have a problem with an opponent making a bad argument. The sillier it is, the better. I trust the lurkers to see through those. I only have problems with allies (or myself) making a bad argument. That's embarrassing. (But educational, if it's me.)
      Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

      snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

      Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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      • #18
        Re: A good argument

        Having a kid did not change my views on abortion, nor did it cause me to regret any past statements or actions involving abortion, so all the people who told me I would be opposed to it if only I knew what it was like to have a child were wrong. Is there a term for the argument that you can't understand something unless you met X condition? While I agree that there are some situations that provide more readily available insight, most of the time I find that the argument is based on an expectation of an emotional reaction.

        I may not understand what it feels like to be a minority in the US, but I can understand what it consists of an since I can actually imagine myself in a situation I can get a pretty good sense of what it there. Experience does make that understanding stronger, but is only required for those who can't imagine themselves in a situation they have not experienced.
        |TG-6th|Snooggums

        Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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        • #19
          Re: A good argument

          Possibly a variation on argumentum ad verecundiam (appeal from authority)? Appeal to accomplishment?

          <04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
          <04:16:25> "|TG-XV| Tralic": this channel is so gay
          DICE needs to make a comical boxing glove attached to a spring punch the player in the face 40% of the time they get into a helicopter or jet.

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          • #20
            Re: A good argument

            I don't see a good match here:

            http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html

            Good question, though.
            Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

            snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

            Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: A good argument

              Next article in the series:

              Getting to QED, Part 3: Analogies in Argument
              http://arstechnica.com/business/prob...n-argument.ars
              Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

              snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

              Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: A good argument

                Excellent article, both pages should be read.
                |TG-6th|Snooggums

                Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: A good argument

                  Part 4 is out:

                  Getting to QED, Part 4: Making analogies precise
                  http://arstechnica.com/business/prob...g-to-qed-4.ars
                  Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                  snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                  Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: A good argument

                    WhiskeySix posted a link in the Why Atheism Fails thread that had this very interesting link:

                    http://www.scribd.com/doc/30548590/C...al-Study-Guide

                    It's a slide show presenting common cognitive biases. If you prefer to see it as a wall of text instead of bite-size pieces with icons, you can see the list at Wikipedia:

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

                    The slide show is less imposing, but the wiki article lets you dig deeper into each bias as each has its own page.
                    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: A good argument

                      Is there some kind of argumentative rule or law that when you have to list out "Top Ten Reasons Why" or a similar quantifiable number in your article title, that you've already lost the argument? Just saying it might be a good law to have. Far too often do I see these crap opinion pieces that tie in 10 or more opinions that are not their own, not supported by their evidence, and worst of all completely subjective conclusions.

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                      • #26
                        Re: A good argument

                        Lists are puff pieces to draw eyeballs and sell ads, not arguments. That doesn't mean that they can't incorporate good arguments, just that it's not the point of having a list. People seem to be drawn to lists. Perhaps it's some inherent part of our brain biology.
                        Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                        snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                        Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: A good argument

                          But drawing the conclusion, "10 reasons why this ideology wins" is akin to an argument eventually referencing Nazis and Hitler (ala http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law). I'm tired of seeing poor arguments of this nature. Supplementing two different ideas that can not win or lose, with a win or a lose attached. It's like trying to beat your opponent to the end of an argument by denouncing a victory or lose at the very start. Arguments are meant to lead your audience to the conclusion you're arguing. If you're writing on the merits of something and simply write in the title "This wins" I believe you've already lost the argument.

                          Referencing the Atheism vs. Christianity thread. We're not talking about the new iPod beating the Zune, we're talking about personal faith for which everyone holds independently and differently. They don't have any market share to tout so to speak.

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                          • #28
                            Re: A good argument

                            Originally posted by Sirusblk View Post
                            Referencing the Atheism vs. Christianity thread. We're not talking about the new iPod beating the Zune, we're talking about personal faith for which everyone holds independently and differently. They don't have any market share to tout so to speak.
                            As many laws and politicians have shown, you don't have to convince anyone that your argument is logical or sound when you have the support of the majority who want to agree with your argument. Market share is in how much influence one side has to infringe upon the rights of others when it comes to the 'Atheism fails' thread.
                            |TG-6th|Snooggums

                            Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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