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  • Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...566,full.story

    Because of changes to the tax code, the number of companies reporting income on individual tax returns has increased dramatically in the last three decades.

    Profits at typical corporations are taxed twice: once at the corporate level and again when distributed to owners and other shareholders as dividends or capital gains.

    But companies can also file as S corporations or partnerships. The business income flows to the owners or partners and is reported on their individual returns, so profits are taxed only once.

    Hamilton's company, an S corporation, will have about $12 million in revenue this year. He owns the firm with his son, Thad, and how much they pay in taxes affects how they run their business, Hamilton said.
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

  • #2
    Re: Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

    12m in revenue is a small business?

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    • #3
      Re: Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

      "Small business" is a misleading term. It refers--in a very simple description of it--to a business with 500 or fewer employees and depending on what exactly they do, below a certain amount of revenue.

      Yeah, the "small businesses" that politicians (well, Republicans) like to arouse as their symbol for the term are not the 2 owner, 3 employee corner stores in downtown Rathole, Kansas. Many of them are like, say, a certain corporation up here in Minnesota that runs multiple "not-for-profit" religious nursing homes yet still maintains small business tax rates and you know, a profit from non-profit, non-taxed entities it "manages".

      Good stuff.

      THAT SAID, $12 million doesn't divide very far into 500 employees, though it's pretty clear they aren't running that large a payroll.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

        There's legal room to only be taxed once, why not pursue it? If they're really moaning about paying taxes... too damn bad!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

          No. It doesn't hurt small business. It might piss selfish small business owners who are rich a bit stupid. But if they don't hire the people they need and pay them the salaries they deserve then they will probably not be small business owners much longer. Thus they might not be rich much longer. And they will then blame taxes instead of their greed.

          Let them fail.
          Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
          - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
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          - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

            Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
            No. It doesn't hurt small business. It might piss selfish small business owners who are rich a bit stupid. But if they don't hire the people they need and pay them the salaries they deserve then they will probably not be small business owners much longer. Thus they might not be rich much longer. And they will then blame taxes instead of their greed.

            Let them fail.

            This is a really ignorant statement. Small businesses such as retailers, restaurants, bakeries, even franchise restaurants (especially?), etc... (I could go on) which operate on slim margins are hurt the worst by these taxes. These aren't fat-cat millionaires tossing around money... many live modestly and work their asses off to make their business profitable. I've been a part of several of these types of businesses, and if you think for a second that there is some selfish owner sitting behind a big desk smoking a cigar while the peon workers slave away for him, you're wrong. Often times they are there in the trenches with their managers and employees making the business work.

            The tax increase does hurt the business because when it's incorporated as S Corp, the tax on the individual is a tax on the business. So it's hurting the business. Do you expect small business owners not to pay themselves?

            Think for a second before you make such a statement.
            "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
            He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

            - Attributed to General George Patton, Jr.

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            • #7
              Re: Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

              Originally posted by Evo<^|SiNz|^> View Post
              The tax increase does hurt the business because when it's incorporated as S Corp, the tax on the individual is a tax on the business. So it's hurting the business. Do you expect small business owners not to pay themselves?
              Then they will change to a tax rate that is more favorable than an S Corp, which they only did to pay less taxes that another corporation type in the first place. The wealthy won't stop working because they have higher taxes anyway, they will simply do something different while complaining because no income is still worse that less income.
              |TG-6th|Snooggums

              Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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              • #8
                Re: Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

                It's very important to discourage small business owners from keeping current employees or hiring any new ones. If I considered starting a business, I'd be looking to China or India to find my location and employees. Conditions are much more favorable there to investors.
                Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

                  Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
                  It's very important to discourage small business owners from keeping current employees or hiring any new ones. If I considered starting a business, I'd be looking to China or India to find my location and employees. Conditions are much more favorable there to investors.
                  Why would a small business benefit from overseas employees? By small I mean actually small, a local pizzeria or bike shop. If you have a business where overseas labor is cheaper it isn't going to benefit the owner to go overseas since they would already be going there for cheap labor if the business is all online and can't go there for physical labor like a restaurant.

                  The whole argument is ridiculous, mainly because 'small' is not small just like how people in the top 1% are called 'middle class'.
                  |TG-6th|Snooggums

                  Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

                    A lot of it depends on the definition of 'Small Business' according to the IRS anyone company with less then 100 individual owners are small business. This would include Trillion Dollar Hedge Funds, and Multi-Billion dollar construction companies, as well as the bakery around the corner or the local restaurant owner barely scraping by.

                    In short I think we need to redefine 'small business' before we can truly have a debate on this topic.

                    ~ Draken

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

                      Does that 100 individual owners count stock holders? Fair enough though, I'll define small buisness as a business that cannot afford to pay any employee or business owner $250,000 or more. Even that is a generous definition though.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

                        Originally posted by DrakenViator View Post

                        In short I think we need to redefine 'small business' before we can truly have a debate on this topic.

                        ~ Draken
                        Obviously this redifining is needed, but obviously it is not going to happen. This is the core of the republican disinformation for the non-thinking man. They are obviously aruing only for the rich 1% to keep as much of their non diserved money as possible. Unfortunately so many people fall for their fake rhetoric. Especially all of the tea-party.

                        You know what I'd love to see? The average IQ of a teabagger.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

                          Originally posted by Evo<^|SiNz|^> View Post
                          This is a really ignorant statement. Small businesses such as retailers, restaurants, bakeries, even franchise restaurants (especially?), etc... (I could go on) which operate on slim margins are hurt the worst by these taxes. These aren't fat-cat millionaires tossing around money... many live modestly and work their asses off to make their business profitable. I've been a part of several of these types of businesses, and if you think for a second that there is some selfish owner sitting behind a big desk smoking a cigar while the peon workers slave away for him, you're wrong. Often times they are there in the trenches with their managers and employees making the business work.

                          The tax increase does hurt the business because when it's incorporated as S Corp, the tax on the individual is a tax on the business. So it's hurting the business. Do you expect small business owners not to pay themselves?

                          Think for a second before you make such a statement.
                          I'm all for tax cuts to help that bakery owner with 4 employees, and I believe very few people here or anywhere would be against helping that particular business owner.

                          The problem is these businesses are also considered "small businesses"

                          * Enterprise Products Partners, L.P., a pipeline company with 2009 revenues of $25 billion.
                          * Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co., a Wall Street firm with $445 million in revenue in 2009.
                          * Price Waterhouse Coopers, an accounting firm with $26 billion in revenue in 2009.
                          * Koch Industries, a conglomerate of partnerships with 70,000 employees.
                          * The Hillman Company, an investment founded by billionaire philanthropist/industrialist Henry Hillman.
                          * Venn Strategies, Inc., whose chief operating officer is Brian Reardon, a former special assistant to former President George W. Bush.
                          * Ferrellgas, a propane and propane accessories business, with $2 billion in revenues in 2009 and 1 million customers.
                          * CoorsTek, a ceramics manufacturer founded by Adolph Coors, with 2009 revenue of $549 million.
                          * Dead River Co., with $500 million in revenue and 1,200 employees.
                          * McIlhenney Co., the Tabasco maker, with $250 million in revenue in 2007.


                          You really think those companies should be considered "small businesses"? That was my point in my initial post. The term "small business" needs to be redefined. I don't care how many employees you have, $12M a year in revenue is not a small business that deserves tax breaks. your neighbor "Pat", who owns a bakery and employs 4 people besides her and earns $400k/year deserves some tax breaks, but as long as Kolberg, Kravis Roberts & Co with their $445M in revenue is considered a small business the same as Pat's bakery, sorry, but she can't get any tax breaks.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

                            Originally posted by BigGaayAl View Post
                            They are obviously aruing only for the rich 1% to keep as much of their non diserved money as possible.
                            What makes their money "non diserved"? If they don't deserve it, then take it all away, because it's stolen. And throw them in prison.
                            Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                            snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                            Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Does taxing the rich hurt small business?

                              Originally posted by Morganan View Post
                              The problem is these businesses are also considered "small businesses"
                              How do these get defined as small businesses? Where would one look up the definition that allows this?

                              I figure I'll start here:

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_business
                              Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                              snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                              Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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