Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

"US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

    Post removed due to copyright violation.
    Last edited by Apophis; 04-16-2011, 06:23 PM. Reason: Copyright Violation

  • #2
    Re: "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

    Having been a Briton and European in this community for about four years, I have watched what can be seen as the more of the 'gung-ho' attitudes of the United States American. Is it time for those in the USA to reflect on why they have a 'gungho reputation' more closely?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

      My thought on this is the US military is just a microcosm of society itself. Basically, you're going to have close to the same number of sociopaths you have in the general public.

      What's more disturbing about this is that the leadership/chain of command broke down as well it seems. Apparently the Master Sergeant was giving orders to kill civilians.



      The same thing happened in Vietnam. Soldiers suffering from years of multiple deployments, poor leadership, untreated injuries, and PTSD become desensitized and view the indigenous people as something other than human. That's the problem with nation building and occupations: It's a never-ending cycle of atrocity after atrocity.

      The US troops that still serve over there, year after year, are really victims themselves. Because the US government has engaged in yet another hopeless asymmetric police action and asked them to do the impossible in many cases. The civilians and the soldiers are the ones who suffer the most from extremely bad US foreign policy, not the shameless policy makers. The more you bomb and attack, the more enemies you make, and it goes on and on - it's actually a self-perpetuating quagmire.
      |TG-X| mp40x



      Register for the Forums! | Get on Teamspeak! | Play Squad! | Join Discord! | Support Tactical Gamer!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

        I am American, not buy choice but buy birth. I did not ask for this title and I cannot say I am proud to be an American.
        That being said I am a proud human being. Although I feel disgust and am ashamed I had to ask myself why am I ashamed. After deductive reasoning I came to the conclusion that It is because I am lumped in to the same box as these people who committed this horrible act of evil, only because I am American.

        Most people do not understand that buy stating " I am proud to be , (insert religion, nation, sexual orientation ect..) " that no matter there heart or good will they are simply shoving there belief or way of life into others faces. Being proud of your family, friends, or something achieved that has good benefit is different though I do not need a bumper sticker to state I am proud of my 2nd grade son to feel that way, cause someone somewhere has a kid that they are not proud of. The point is these guy's are American and anger from this atrocity is felt towards the military and the American people when **** like this happens. I know bad apples are everywhere but I feel compelled to defend the good people in the military and in the U.S.

        I am sad for the families hurt buy this and am sure they hate America now if they didn't already and that includes me even though I am outraged at these weak minded , impressionable idiots of evil. I feel they should be shot and burned, erased from this planet. This world has a lot going for it if our Governments could quit FN things up and trust me it is all buy design and they do not F things up buy accident. Are troops are over there because the U.S. gov put them there and the U.S. gov wants something and don't fool yourself it isn't freedom or hunting down terrorist. Are men and woman will be coming home (the one's that do) scarred, families hurt and the weak minded like the one's that where killing for sport will be here with us.

        Gung Ho attitudes Taip3n ? Ya we got those, but that's not all we got and it's long past time for some reflection. These numb lost souls doing these kind of act's are just a symptom of a greater problem.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

          War = Legalized Mass Murder.
          sigpic


          Comment


          • #6
            Re: "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

            Bad apples. They exist everywhere. Yes, even in European military forces.

            And please, don't feel pity for the pieces of filth that decide to go about casually murdering civilians for sport. You're naive to label these monsters as victims of some grinding war rotation. Evil exists, often without reason to. These five killed because they can, same as the group a few years ago that murdered a family or Iraqis, raped the daughter, and burnt their house down with them inside.

            Originally posted by mp40x View Post
            What's more disturbing about this is that the leadership/chain of command broke down as well it seems.
            That is true, there were apparently serious command climate issues going on in the unit.

            While Morlock testified yesterday, he never tried to spread blame for his actions. But the Army launched a separate investigation of the 5th (Stryker) Brigade's leadership. The findings have not been released.

            Late yesterday afternoon, a witness for the defense claimed the brigade was rife with command problems.

            "What was shocking was the level of chaos, and disorganization. The level of mistrust," said Stjepan Mestrovic, a sociologist. He said that he and two other researchers spent some 200 hours conducting interviews with soldiers and examining documents, including the leadership report.

            Mestrovic painted a disturbing picture of Col. Harry Tunnell, the brigade commander, as having embraced a strategy based on hunting down the Taliban that was at odds with the Army's emphasis on gaining the trust of Afghans through aid and other outreach efforts.

            Mestrovic said that even before the brigade left for Afghanistan, Army commanders considered removing Tunnel and two generals. He also said the brigade initially failed a final certification test before departing for Afghanistan, and only later was approved to deploy.

            Mestrovic also noted that Gibbs, a squad leader portrayed by other soldiers as a ringleader in the crimes, was originally part of Tunnell's security detail before transfer to Morlock's platoon.

            Tunnell, in earlier interviews with The Seattle Times, has said that he was involved in both combat and outreach work in Afghanistan. He maintained that brigade casualties would have been even higher if he modified his tactics.

            In closing arguments, defense attorney Frank Spinner, citing Mestrovic's testimony, said that when fashioning a sentence the judge needed to "keep in mind the totality of the circumstances that existed here."

            Capt. Dre Leblanc, a prosecutor, rejected the argument that commanders bore significant responsibility for the crimes.

            "We don't do this," he said. "This isn't how we train. This is not the Army. Your honor, these actions are the actions of a few extraordinarily misguided young men, including the accused."
            http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...artial24m.html

            Combining those that truly have no moral compass with a command climate that is apparently toxic results in horror. I do, however, agree with the prosecutor's sentiment. Let's not downplay the severity of the actions of this "kill team" and somehow insinuate that these Soldiers weren't jacked up in the head from the get-go.
            Last edited by Gill; 03-26-2011, 02:29 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

              Bad people will do bad things regardless of their immediate situation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

                Originally posted by Gill View Post
                Bad apples. They exist everywhere. Yes, even in European military forces.
                Well, that kind of goes without saying, right? Even though I made that very point in my OP:

                Originally posted by mp40x View Post
                My thought on this is the US military is just a microcosm of society itself. Basically, you're going to have close to the same number of sociopaths you have in the general public.
                Originally posted by Gill View Post
                And please, don't feel pity for the pieces of filth that decide to go about casually murdering civilians for sport.
                Show me where anyone feels pity for these murderers in this thread. I think you'll find that no one is willing to make that leap, including me.

                Originally posted by Gill View Post
                You're naive to label these monsters as victims of some grinding war rotation.
                No, you're naive to assume that there isn't a broader context involving our current foreign occupations and the consequences of that type of foreign policy. You see, I never excused the behavior of those soldiers, rather, I sought to make the point that it's systematics of military occupations. This is a documented fact, not an opinion.

                Notice that when I said this...

                Originally posted by mp40x View Post
                The US troops that still serve over there, year after year, are really victims themselves.
                ...I was referring to the entire US force on the ground, not the soldiers in question.

                I'll direct you to this article from ProPublica, it's from a series they have entitled Brain Wars: How the Military Is Failing Its Wounded.

                Aftershock: The Blast That Shook Psycho Platoon

                More than 2 million troops have deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001. Tens of thousands have returned with a bedeviling mix of psychological and cognitive problems. For decades, doctors have recognized that soldiers can suffer lasting wounds from the sheer terror of combat, a condition referred to today as post-traumatic stress disorder. They also have come to know that blows to the head from roadside bombs -- the signature weapon in Iraq and Afghanistan -- can result in mild traumatic injuries to the brain, or concussions, that can leave soldiers unable to remember, to follow orders, to think normally.
                So, when I made the assertion that US soldiers are really victims themselves: Maybe you see what I mean now.

                Now it is becoming clear that soldiers like Savelkoul are coming home afflicted with both conditions, in numbers never seen before. Studies have estimated that about 20 percent of soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan have suffered a mild traumatic brain injury while deployed. Of those, anywhere between 5 percent to nearly 50 percent may suffer both PTSD and lingering problems from traumatic brain injuries. It is an epidemic so new that doctors aren't even sure what to call it, let alone how best to diagnose and treat it.
                We've asked too much from our military. What would truly be naive indeed, would be to assume that this is some type of isolated incident involving just a few bad apples. I'd beg to argue that this type of thing has been going on for quite some time, at least to some degree. And that the tremendous strain we have put on our military is a contributing factor to this and overall systematic of military occupations. Especially this war in Afghanistan, which is the longest war in US history.
                |TG-X| mp40x



                Register for the Forums! | Get on Teamspeak! | Play Squad! | Join Discord! | Support Tactical Gamer!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

                  I think that this is a very particular totality of events that resulted in a willful murder. An apparently psychopathic staff sergeant (who had claimed that he had previously killed innocents in past rotations) was put into a position of influence over impressionable Soldiers who belonged to a unit - I'm told - that had been hit very hard in their sector. These Soldiers had lost friends and became susceptible to poison. That they didn't possess to moral courage to separate right from wrong is their failing. Even those that have come home with TBI or PTSD or a combination of the two haven't stepped into the deep end of straight-up murder.

                  I fully admit that I misread the intentions of your post, though, and do agree that the American military needs a break. During a recent traffic stop I discussed unit rotations with a 101st infantryman who stated that the Army still hasn't transitioned to two-years dwell time. Repeat rotations are the reason I left the military... I didn't feel like putting my life on hold every other year for a year.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

                    There is nothing legal about war. The very nature of it defies legality.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

                      I am an American by choice. It's way better than a lot of places I've lived still. I don't agree with a lot of the foreign policy, but I DO feel that I have the power to change it. War is ugly, stuff like this happens. I agree with Gill. People need a break.
                      Do or do not, there is no try....
                      -- Yoda, Dagobah

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

                        I am an American and an American Army Infantry soldier.

                        There are bad apples in every society. My opinion these idiots should be put to death. However, its too often over looked that the opposition does these types of acts in every chance they get. When I say opposition I do not mean people of the middle east, Afghans, or Muslims. I mean those extremists.

                        Despite the popular opinion around the world and on the internet. Americans do more than any other nation in the history of the earth to prevent civilian casualties. Yes there are mistakes and often incidents that the media paints as mistakes only because every insurgent is also a civilian. But you would not believe the lengths we go to keep civilians safe. So much in fact that it endangers our own well being. We are given rediculous Rules of Engagement. We are given too many rules to what we can and cannot do. I've seen combatants fire on coalitions forces and then lay down their arms. Only then for our Close Air Support to be told they cannot engage because they are no threat even though these same people moments earlier were firing and killing soldiers on the ground. Please tell me other nations that would exhibit such constraint other than the coalition forces that are often at the end of the finger pointing.

                        I would very much be willing to hear other sides. But unless you have any real experience with dealing with matters first hand its just speculation that you have heard or read.

                        And if your an "American" by default and not by choice I really doubt you have experienced the rest of the world enough to be thankful enough to live in such a lucky place and also lucky enough to have some other man laying on a mountain in a foreign country willing to give his life so you have the right to express yourself with being disgusting with being American.
                        __________________
                        |TG|||---DoRo---||

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

                          Here's a really long but interesting article that was released yesterday from Rolling Stone:

                          The Kill Team

                          How U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan murdered innocent civilians and mutilated their corpses – and how their officers failed to stop them. Plus: An exclusive look at the war crime photos censored by the Pentagon
                          Edit: Something I forgot to post from this article: One of the accused soldiers, Cpl. Jeremy Morlock, was from Alaska and knew the Palin's. Kind of creepy, right?

                          Before the military found itself short of troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, Morlock was the kind of bad-news kid whom the Army might have passed on. He grew up not far from Sarah Palin in Wasilla, Alaska; his sister hung out with Bristol, and Morlock played hockey against Track. In those days, he was constantly in trouble: getting drunk and into fights, driving without a license, leaving the scene of a serious car accident. Even after he joined the Army, Morlock continued to get into trouble. In 2009, a month before he deployed to Afghanistan, he was charged with disorderly conduct after burning his wife with a cigarette. After he arrived in Afghanistan, he did any drug he could get his hands on: opium, hash, Ambien, amitriptyline, flexeril, phenergan, codeine, trazodone.
                          You guys really need to read the full article, it's the best one I've found about this incident.
                          Last edited by mp40x; 03-28-2011, 10:04 AM.
                          |TG-X| mp40x



                          Register for the Forums! | Get on Teamspeak! | Play Squad! | Join Discord! | Support Tactical Gamer!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

                            Originally posted by gunjunkie View Post
                            I am an American by choice. It's way better than a lot of places I've lived still. I don't agree with a lot of the foreign policy, but I DO feel that I have the power to change it. War is ugly, stuff like this happens. I agree with Gill. People need a break.
                            Really?.. What country did you come from? And Don't kid yourself, your illusion of power to influence an outcome that would change foreign policy is not there. Just an illusion, I am sorry.
                            Originally posted by Doro9 View Post
                            I am an American and an American Army Infantry soldier.

                            Despite the popular opinion around the world and on the internet. Americans do more than any other nation in the history of the earth to prevent civilian casualties. We are given rediculous Rules of Engagement.
                            And if your an "American" by default and not by choice I really doubt you have experienced the rest of the world enough to be thankful enough to live in such a lucky place and also lucky enough to have some other man laying on a mountain in a foreign country willing to give his life so you have the right to express yourself with being disgusting with being American.
                            That's great Doro, I give all military a 20% discount on tattoos because I respect what they have to go through, come see me. And I have been doing that for over 15 years. I grew up right next too Camp Lejune N.C. and have spent the last 5 years next too Ft Lenardwood M.O. My father in law is a Veitnam Vet, my father was army, my brother is Navy, and even I thought about joining when I was young, I got an 83 on the ASVAB and was told I could pretty much do what ever I wanted. The relationship fell through because I caught the recruiter lying to me, and I spoke with many enlisted and got the same story but these days they will let just about any body in the military.

                            Yes I know are military takes many precautions to reduce the amount of casualties inflicted on civilians and I am sure we are better at it than any other nation because we have our fingers in more cookie jars than any other nation.

                            Look kid, you sound young and a bit naive and that is fine I was young once too. And don't take my post the wrong way I mean no disrespect. I can tell your patriotism was offended buy my earlier post. I am a proud father of 5 beautiful children and I teach them well. I am thankful they and I were born in the USA, I am thankful there are people like yourself and many others there to protect us during a conflict of nations. I on the other hand are not proud of the US, directed mostly toward are Gov and not so much the people (although there are some really dumb people out there). Are military is used and abused and I am worried that when another nation pushes are button for the sake of survival are forces are going to be so worn and torn down from fighting an unjust war, that we will be trampled.

                            I love my children, but I am not always proud of them, and you should learn not to get your panties all in bunch over such things and understand the difference.

                            Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!
                            Albert Einstein

                            I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth, and I am a citizen of the world.
                            Eugene V. Debs

                            It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind.
                            Voltaire

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: "US soldier admits killing unarmed Afghans for sport"

                              Originally posted by Shane View Post
                              Really?.. What country did you come from? And Don't kid yourself, your illusion of power to influence an outcome that would change foreign policy is not there. Just an illusion, I am sorry.
                              Apartheid era South Africa. Still feels a lot better here. I'm under no illusions about the absolute inanity that the (R/D) is trying to create here. I just feel it is a better choice (for me) than the alternatives. At least here, I can display my unhappiness at the multitude of sheep. Other places, with real fascism, maybe not so much. I still believe, that if enough of us got pissed off enough, about the same things, there would be real change. That it doesn't is down to personal apathy and not lack of options.

                              You can't really call something the worst until you've actually lived through it.
                              Do or do not, there is no try....
                              -- Yoda, Dagobah

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X