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Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SWAT

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  • Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SWAT

    Tucson SWAT Team Defends Shooting Iraq Vet 60 Times

    A Tucson, Ariz., SWAT team defends shooting an Iraq War veteran 60 times during a drug raid, although it declines to say whether it found any drugs in the house and has had to retract its claim that the veteran shot first.

    And the Pima County sheriff scolded the media for "questioning the legality" of the shooting.

    Jose Guerena, 26, died the morning of May 5. He was asleep in his Tucson home after working a night shift at the Asarco copper mine when his wife, Vanessa, saw the armed SWAT team outside her youngest son's bedroom window.

    "She saw a man pointing at her with a gun," said Reyna Ortiz, 29, a relative who is caring for Vanessa and her children. Ortiz said Vanessa Guerena yelled, "Don't shoot! I have a baby!"

    Vanessa Guerena thought the gunman might be part of a home invasion -- especially because two members of her sister-in-law's family, Cynthia and Manny Orozco, were killed last year in their Tucson home, her lawyer, Chris Scileppi, said. She shouted for her husband in the next room, and he woke up and told his wife to hide in the closet with the child, Joel, 4.

    Guerena grabbed his assault rifle and was pointing it at the SWAT team, which was trying to serve a narcotics search warrant as part of a multi-house drug crackdown, when the team broke down the door. At first the Pima County Sheriff's Office said that Guerena fired first, but on Wednesday officials backtracked and said he had not. "The safety was on and he could not fire," according to the sheriff's statement.
    The guy had just got home and went to bed after working a night shift at a mine. The police initially said that he fired at them first, as it turns out, that was false.

    The sheriff’s department maintains that Guerena was holding an AR-15 when the paramilitary force fired 71 bullets in his home, but other key parts of the government story have collapsed. While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler:

    A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, [PCSD spokesman Michael] O'Connor said.
    The SWAT team then never let the paramedics help Guerena.

    SWAT team members fired 71 times and hit Guerena 60 times, police said.

    In a frantic 911 call, Vanessa Guerena begged for medical help for her husband. "He's on the floor!" she said, crying, to the 911 operator. "Can you please hurry up?"

    Asked if law enforcement was inside or outside the house, she told the operator, according to a transcript of the call, that they were inside. "They were ... going to shoot me. And I put my kid in front of me."

    A report by ABC News affiliate KGUN found that more than an hour had passed before the SWAT team let the paramedics work on Guerena. By then he was dead.
    Then comes the scolding of the media by the police - even though they wont release any information - probably because it doesn't help defend their actions. But, the lawyer for the SWAT team - they lawyered up pretty quick, probably means they screwed up - is making public statements to the press trying to demonize the victim.

    A spokesman for Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said he could not discuss whether any drugs had been found at the home or make any other comment. "We're waiting for the investigation to be complete," he said.

    In a statement, the sheriff's office criticized the media, saying that while questions will inevitably be raised, "It is unacceptable and irresponsible to couch those questions with implications of secrecy and a coverup, not to mention questioning the legality of actions that could not have been taken without the approval of an impartial judge."

    Mike Storie, a lawyer for the SWAT team, said at a press conference Thursday that weapons and body armor were found in the home as well as a photo of Jesus Malverde, who Storie called a "patron saint drug runner," according to KGUN.
    I've been following this story on Tim Cavanaugh's blog at Reason magazine. Including his story about how does having a picture of Jesus Malverde jusify the killing of this man? Not to mention the other items the police supposedly found in Guerena's house that are pefectly legal.

    But Michael Storie, the attorney for the SWAT officers, said the raid turned up rifles, hand guns, body armor and a piece of a “law enforcement uniform” inside Guerena’s house. (Guerena family attorney Christopher Scileppi, tells Echávarri none of the seized items were illegal.)
    Marine Survives Two Tours in Iraq, SWAT Kills Him

    Sheriffs: Slain Jose Guerena Linked to "Home-Invasion Crew"

    This statement comes from the SWAT team's lawyer:

    The house was targeted as part of an investigation into home invasions and drug rip offs. The Guerena house was among homes that “were identified as locations where these activities were being carried out from.”
    Where's the evidence? Why is the SWAT lawyer doing all the talking, including his shameless defamation of the dead Marine's character. If the police had any, and I mean any evidence at all that this guy was crime affiliated, they would be holding press conferences with whatever evidence they had sitting on the table in front of the podium.

    Jose Guerena Evidence: Don't Buy Your Kids the Jesús Malverde Bobblehead

    How weak is the evidence tying slain Iraq war veteran Jose Guerena to the drug ring and/or home invasion gang whose existence has been asserted (though not alleged – no arrests have been made) by the Pima County, Arizona Sheriff?
    Did this guy Jose Guerena ever have a chance to comply with the police? Early morning hours, wife screaming, just went to sleep, there's people with guns in your front yard: Wouldn't you grab the nearest firearm you had and try and defend your family?

    Watch this video and you tell me if the guy with the golf club deserved to be gunned down by the police in his own home. This is unrelated to the Jose Guerena case, but serves as a good example of how these police raids, in and of themselves, are the instigators of the violence.



    This type of thing happens everyday in America, and lets be fair here, if Jose Guerena wasn't a US Marine and Iraq war veteran it wouldn't even be getting the very little press attention that it is now.

    If anyone's interested, Radley Balko has been wrting and testifying before Congress for years about the rise of police militarization, no-knock warrants, and the drug war.

    Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America

    Americans have long maintained that a man's home is his castle and that he has the right to defend it from unlawful intruders. Unfortunately, that right may be disappearing. Over the last 25 years, America has seen a disturbing militarization of its civilian law enforcement, along with a dramatic and unsettling rise in the use of paramilitary police units (most commonly called Special Weapons and Tactics, or SWAT) for routine police work. The most common use of SWAT teams today is to serve narcotics warrants, usually with forced, unannounced entry into the home.

    These increasingly frequent raids, 40,000 per year by one estimate, are needlessly subjecting nonviolent drug offenders, bystanders, and wrongly targeted civilians to the terror of having their homes invaded while they're sleeping, usually by teams of heavily armed paramilitary units dressed not as police officers but as soldiers. These raids bring unnecessary violence and provocation to nonviolent drug offenders, many of whom were guilty of only misdemeanors. The raids terrorize innocents when police mistakenly target the wrong residence. And they have resulted in dozens of needless deaths and injuries, not only of drug offenders, but also of police officers, children, bystanders, and innocent suspects.
    Amen to that!
    |TG-X| mp40x



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  • #2
    Re: Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SW

    There wasn't much anyone could do to assist someone who's been struck by 60 rounds. Had an emergency room and a surgeon been right next door Mr. Guerena would've still died. The statement seems disingenuous. If you watch the video of the man being shot, you'll see a team member immediately go to him and begin rendering aid. That's the team medic. I'm assuming that there was a medic providing aid since all "SWAT"-style units have one accompany them into a residence. Paramedics weren't let into the hour likely because the house hadn't been deemed safe for them to enter. EMS personnel don't enter areas in which dangerous subjects may be present.

    Details of the investigation are usually not released until the investigation is complete. Releasing details leads to recantations that make the agency look even worse. Case in point, telling the public Guerena shot first when, in fact, he aimed the weapon at them but never fired.

    Narcotics raids are dangerous business. No-knock search warrants are the answer to the destruction of evidence. I... simply don't have any alternative to them. The video of the man shot holding the golf club saddens me deeply. It shouldn't happen, but in a system subject to human error, errors happen that costs lives. It shouldn't be that way. But, it is. There's no easy solution to the "drug war".
    Last edited by Gill; 05-25-2011, 09:13 AM.

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    • #3
      Re: Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SW

      Legalize it all. Punish for irresponsible use.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SW

        This just feels wrong. Paramilitary operations like these do not feel to be the solution I will look more on the subject. Thankyou for bringing it up.

        However, I do feel that society has the right to prohibit destructive drugs.

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        • #5
          Re: Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SW

          Originally posted by Gill View Post
          There wasn't much anyone could do to assist someone who's been struck by 60 rounds. Had an emergency room and a surgeon been right next door Mr. Guerena would've still died. The statement seems disingenuous.
          Respectfully, it's more like a disingenuous rationalization on your part to justify the shooting. The fact the man was shot 60 times was obviously not apparent at the time of the incident. That information was discovered post investigation. Guerena deserved immediate medical attention despite of his numerous wounds. This is an absolute failure on behalf of the Pima County Regional SWAT.

          Originally posted by Gill View Post
          If you watch the video of the man being shot, you'll see a team member immediately go to him and begin rendering aid. That's the team medic. I'm assuming that there was a medic providing aid since all "SWAT"-style units have one accompany them into a residence.
          You're speaking towards the video of the guy with the golf club, not the Guerena shooting. We have no evidence that the five Pima County Regional SWAT team members even had a medic present as they seem to have been a hodge podge of officers from different juridictions:

          The five officers Storie is representing are from the Sahuarita, Marana and Oro Valley police departments, and two from the sheriff’s department. The sheriff’s SWAT team is made up of officers from different agencies. Source.
          Who's to say they had a medic, were even properly trained or had even worked that much together since they were from different agencies.

          Originally posted by Gill View Post
          Paramedics weren't let into the hour likely because the house hadn't been deemed safe for them to enter. EMS personnel don't enter areas in which dangerous subjects may be present.
          Right, standard operating procedure, straight out of the SWAT lawyers mouth:

          When asked why SWAT members did not rush in to render medical aid to Guerena, Storie said officers on scene "have to assume that there are other people with guns and that there are other people with body armor inside the residence."
          Originally posted by mp40x
          The body armor was found after they searched the house over an hour later, so the attorney is completely misleading the public when he used that as an excuse to not give medical care to Guerena
          He said officers could not conclude Guerena was incapacitated because he fell into a room after he was shot and officers could not see him from the doorway.

          Based on a photograph of a large bloodstain inside the home, Scileppi said, Guerena fell down in clear view of the front door and officers could see him.

          The SWAT officers fired 71 shots, striking Guerena 60 times.

          The search warrant was not directed at any particular person, and Guerena's name was not mentioned, but it was targeting whoever might be inside the residence, Storie said.

          If SWAT members had been let into the home, those inside "probably ... wouldn't have been arrested," Storie said.
          Sounds like a bogus warrant for starters which directly violates the 4th amendment:

          Fourth Amendment - Search and Seizure

          The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
          As the attorney for the SWAT member stated:

          The search warrant was not directed at any particular person, and Guerena's name was not mentioned, but it was targeting whoever might be inside the residence, Storie said.
          Cut and dry violation of the 4th amendment as Guerena and his family was not mentioned in the warrant.

          As reported by the Arizona Star, Storie insisted that if the Guerena family had permitted the armed intruders into their home, those inside "probably … wouldn’t have been arrested." This is because the "warrant was not directed at any particular person, and Guerena’s home was not mentioned, but it was targeting whoever might be inside the residence...."

          That is to say that this was not a legitimate search warrant, under the requirements imposed by the Fourth Amendment (and expressly incorporated in Arizona law through the state constitution). The instrument used as supposed justification for the armed assault was akin to the "writs of assistance" used by British soldiers during the years leading up to the American colonial rebellion. Source.
          Originally posted by Gill View Post
          Details of the investigation are usually not released until the investigation is complete. Releasing details leads to recantations that make the agency look even worse. Case in point, telling the public Guerena shot first when, in fact, he aimed the weapon at them but never fired.
          There was a first shot fired, it was fired by the SWAT team outside the home:

          From my OP:

          The sheriff’s department maintains that Guerena was holding an AR-15 when the paramilitary force fired 71 bullets in his home, but other key parts of the government story have collapsed. While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler:

          A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, [PCSD spokesman Michael] O'Connor said.
          Originally posted by Gill View Post
          Narcotics raids are dangerous business. No-knock search warrants are the answer to the destruction of evidence. I... simply don't have any alternative to them. The video of the man shot holding the golf club saddens me deeply. It shouldn't happen, but in a system subject to human error, errors happen that costs lives. It shouldn't be that way. But, it is. There's no easy solution to the "drug war".
          Narcotics raids, are, dangerous business and they should be stopped. And No-knock search warrants themselves serve as the purveyors of violence is most cases these days. I'll let Radley Balko sum it up:

          According to surveys of police departments conducted by University of Eastern Kentucky criminologist Peter Kraska, we've seen about a 1,500 percent increase in SWAT deployments in this country since the early 1980s. The vast majority of that increase has been to serve search warrants on people suspected of nonviolent drug crimes. SWAT teams are inherently violent. In some ways they're an infliction of punishment before conviction. This is why they should only be used in situations where the suspect presents an immediate threat to others. In that case, SWAT teams use violence to defuse an already violent situation. When they're used to serve drug warrants for consensual crimes, however, SWAT tactics create violence where no violence was present before. Even when everything goes right in such a raid, breaking into the home of someone merely suspected of a nonviolent, consensual crime is an inappropriate use of force in a free society.
          I mean, really Gill, watch how violent this raid is into this families home:

          This video shows a search warrant served by the Columbia Mo. police department. The cops bust in this guys house in the middle of the night and shoot his two dogs (one a pit bull that was caged in the kitchen and the other a Corgi) with children in the home. it turns out that rather than a big time drug dealer, this guy had a small pipe with some resin in it, a grinder, and what the cops here call "a small amount of marijuana" (meaning less than a few grams)


          What person in their right mind could justify such an egregious and violent act by this SWAT team? Someone with no moral compass or sense of morality, I guess.

          Originally posted by sordavie View Post
          Legalize it all. Punish for irresponsible use.
          Exactly, Don't we punish people for irresponsibly using alcohol, drunk driving, public intoxication, etc.

          It's been studied that alcohol is actually more dangerous than most illegal drugs. But that doesn't mean I'm for prohibition, quite the contrary. Like you said, just punish for irresponsible use.

          Alcohol 'more harmful than heroin or crack'

          Alcohol is the most dangerous drug in the UK by a considerable margin, beating heroin and crack cocaine into second and third place, according to an authoritative study published today which will reopen calls for the drugs classification system to be scrapped and a concerted campaign launched against drink.

          Led by the sacked government drugs adviser David Nutt with colleagues from the breakaway Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs, the study says that if drugs were classified on the basis of the harm they do, alcohol would be class A, alongside heroin and crack cocaine.
          |TG-X| mp40x



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          • #6
            Re: Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SW

            shame shame shame. People have to fortify there house with camera and post signs on the door ( House is booby trapped, you better knock first) at least that is something I am thinking of doing.

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            • #7
              Re: Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SW

              Originally posted by mp40x View Post
              Right, standard operating procedure, straight out of the SWAT lawyers mouth:
              To be fair, it is SOP. Medics don't go into scenes that aren't checked and cleared thoroughly. 1 hour(if accurate) would be longer than usual though.
              |TG-X|Turkish

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              • #8
                Re: Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SW

                What is he basing the findings on? The total number of alcohol-related incidents? Since - I assume - a LARGE proportion of the population of the UK drinks alcohol, I imagine the number of incidents related to alcohol would naturally be higher than heroin or crack.

                I mean, seriously... the study finds cannabis to be "more dangerous" than GHB, benzodiazepines, ketamine , and methadone.

                The rest of your post gives me something to think about, nothing to comment upon at this time.

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                • #9
                  Re: Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SW

                  Originally posted by KoopaTroopa View Post
                  There wasn't much anyone could do to assist someone who's been struck by 60 rounds. Had an emergency room and a surgeon been right next door Mr. Guerena would've still died. The statement seems disingenuous. If you watch the video of the man being shot, you'll see a team member immediately go to him and begin rendering aid. That's the team medic. I'm assuming that there was a medic providing aid since all "SWAT"-style units have one accompany them into a residence. Paramedics weren't let into the hour likely because the house hadn't been deemed safe for them to enter. EMS personnel don't enter areas in which dangerous subjects may be present.
                  Sure, EMS doesn't immediately enter a dangerous scene. They enter, gun him down, then refuse to clear the area for over an hour. The whole point of SWAT is dynamic, armed entry into houses. Why isn't that place cleared as quickly as possible so he can be treated?

                  Narcotics raids are dangerous business. No-knock search warrants are the answer to the destruction of evidence. I... simply don't have any alternative to them. The video of the man shot holding the golf club saddens me deeply. It shouldn't happen, but in a system subject to human error, errors happen that costs lives. It shouldn't be that way. But, it is. There's no easy solution to the "drug war".
                  Got an easy one. Don't use SWAT except in situations where human life is immediately in danger. You know, like it was intended to. Because right now, they're ludicrously overused.

                  Fun ones about this case: (Link to press conference follows)

                  The department claimed they found everything they intended to find. They also claim that had SWAT been let peaceably into the home, it was likely that Guerena would not have been arrested. Nobody else on the same warrant was ultimately arrested. In the SAME press conference, they admitted they did not have the house under surveillance and did not know whether people were home. Why was this warrant issued? Because this is rank incompetency from every facet of the law enforcement. The judge, the captain, the team, the intelligence, and the internal affairs department are all complicit in this man's murder.

                  Chances are good they'll get paid leave while IA goes through and determines that everything was done according to protocol.

                  http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crim...88ac67e86.html
                  I can ADS using more than a 2x without significant stutter! This was a good patch.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SW

                    I don't care if protocol was followed if I find the whole thing ridiculous to begin with.

                    We do NOT need stuff like this going on in the US.

                    The video where they storm in a house for a small amount of pot; terrorizing a family and killing two harmless dogs, worse of all, is ****ing retarded and an abuse of power.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SW

                      Tragic shooting, the initial confusion over who fired first is irrelevant, If its true that, Mr Guerena did raise a weapon to the swat officers, they could have shot him and probable been ok legal. Mr Guerena obviously thought someone was breaking in and wanted to defend his family. If thats were it ended, this would have just been a horrible mistake. We're this situation pisses me off and I lose all sympathy for the officers is the fact that they didn't let in paramedics for an hour. It doesn't take that dam long to secure a house. My thinking is the swat team thought Mr Guerena was obviously dead and was more concerned with "preserving evidence". Its horse crap as far as I'm concerned you try everything you can to save a life even if you think its totally helpless. The blair video is similar to Mr Guerena situation, guy heard someone breaking into his house and went to defend it, the officer saw a man running at him with a club and shot him. Tragic, but legal as both subjects were defending them selves from "perceived threats". I understand you feelings about the no knock swat style warrant searches, but these are done largely for safety. If you knock on the door and announce your self, this gives people inside opportunity to grab a weapon, and has in the past gotten many officers killed.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SW

                        I'm reading a story about the Jose Guerena shooting from a local TV station and notice this:

                        Weeks after the shooting of Jose Guerena, people on both sides of this debate are digging in and firing off even more heated rhetoric. Many stand behind the SWAT team, saying they are just doing their job. But others say the team went too far, using excessive force which led to the former Marine's death.

                        And it's not just people in Southeastern Arizona who are saying that.

                        There's a blistering editorial in the conservative Washington Times titled "Murder With A Badge."
                        This, is highly irregular. A right leaning conservative newspaper in Washington, The Washington Times, has a editorial denouncing the Guerena shooting. This is not just some opinion article, but rather a direct editorial from the newspaper itself. They start off by actually scolding conservatives for always siding with the police, even when they're wrong.

                        EDITORIAL: Murder with a badge

                        Law enforcement needs to come clean when it makes mistakes

                        Public confidence in law enforcement is essential to maintaining a free and orderly society. The thin blue line frequently finds itself under attack from the left, so it’s natural for conservatives to come readily to its defense. This instinct should be resisted when police make serious mistakes and engage in a cover-up instead of asking forgiveness from the public.
                        Wow, I'm really surprised by this - not typical of a conservative publication. I mean, even the the title of the editorial is highly inflammatory, "Murder with a badge", they go on to make this statement which I'm in complete agreement with.

                        Time will tell whether Guerena was a fully innocent victim or not. Yet so long as government-sponsored home-invasion rings are allowed to operate with shoot-first orders more appropriate for a SEAL team hunting Osama bin Laden, more innocent bystanders are going to pay the price.
                        |TG-X| mp40x



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                        • #13
                          Re: Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SW

                          Originally posted by johnflenaly View Post
                          I understand you feelings about the no knock swat style warrant searches, but these are done largely for safety. If you knock on the door and announce your self, this gives people inside opportunity to grab a weapon, and has in the past gotten many officers killed.
                          Wait, so...announcing yourselves as police gives them time to get a weapon, but somehow this superhuman got a weapon without them announcing themselves? Or every other time SWAT barges in? And they're done for safety? That's ridiculous. Creating a high-tension atmosphere with guns everywhere is NOT safer than announcing themselves and knocking on the door, because if the person in question was going to shoot officers, they were going to shoot at officers even if they barged in. Oddly enough, people tend not to think clearly when woken by large members of armed men bursting in through their door. Adding a lot of tension and guns to a situation where they are not required is not really a safe proposition for anyone involved.

                          Besides, isn't it SOP in Iraq, when facing a known insurgent building, to surround it and demand a surrender? If it really is for the officers' safety, why is that SOP in an area when opponents have a much higher vested interest in fighting back, while American citizens somehow deserve less?

                          Finally, citizens have rights. And many things might be safer for the police, but, frankly, I don't care. Using the howitzer the Maricopa county PD has might be safer for the officers. After all, its hard to shoot back at a howitzer blowing up your house, but that doesn't make it right.

                          No-knock warrants are not acceptable unless there is a hostage situation where hostages have started being killed. In any other circumstances, there are no reasons for them. Flushing the evidence? So what. Get a monitor on the sewer lines. Not worth the risk when you mess up. They might shoot you if you say you are police? Then they definitely would have shot you had you knocked down the door. I might, might accept that with a sufficient surfeit of evidence and surveillance showing that the house is definitely a major drug center with large amounts of firearms that have the potential to be readied but are not immediately so, that a no-knock warrant be offered. But that needs to be definitive. This might have been a horrible mistake, (but the fact that the warrant was issued at all implies an endemic problem) but so have numerous other instances of complete and utter overreaction by the police against American citizens. This is not an isolated incident.
                          I can ADS using more than a 2x without significant stutter! This was a good patch.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SW

                            As said, no-knocks are a response to the probable destruction of evidence (or, in some cases, extreme danger to officers, like a violent felon inside the residence) that would occur during a knock-and-announce.

                            On one side, you have the 40 deaths since 1981 in borked no-knock warrants. On the other side, you have citizens of the community demanding "something must be done" about the criminals ruining their neighborhood. There has to be a more realistic solution that something like "monitoring the sewer lines". What happens if its a septic tank? Do we waste city budget on digging up someone's yard to search the septic tank? Do you have someone sit down in the sewers with a plastic bag and a filter straining the poop water to catch baggies of dope?

                            You wouldn't need a search warrant to enter someone's home in defense of "hostages being killed". That's exigent circumstance, and makes a warrantless search constitutional.

                            It's less a "complete and utter overreaction by the police against the American citizens" than law enforcement reacting to demands from law-abiding citizens that the problem of drug-related crime - which destroys neighborhoods - be "solved".

                            Actual search warrants are extremely detailed documents. It's not as if someone calls up the magistrate and says, "Hey, dude, let me search such-and-such residence cuz I think there be drugs in there", and the magistrate's, like, "Yeah, brosef, go hit that house up!" An actual search warrant - no-knock or otherwise - is a ridiculously-detailed document that exhaustively details the intent of the search, exactly what is going to be searched, why it is going to be searched, how the information for probable cause was obtained, even the exact route the units serving the warrant are going to take from the start position, to the place being searched, and from the place being searched back to the start point.

                            That being said, I'm still not passing judgement on Pima County. They may be guilty of some wrongdoing, they may not be. Here's a video of the raid:

                            http://www.kgun9.com/story/14736691/...-and-firefight

                            Selected quotes from a recent interview:

                            Waldman: "There were some reports out there that this was I guess what some law enforcement would call a no-knock entry. Did you announce yourselves as law enforcement officers?"

                            O'Connor: "Absolutely. Those are very specific cases when it's a no-knock warrant. This was not a no-knock warrant. This case was, we came in very high profile, lights and sirens. We go to the door, we pound on the door. We wait approximately 15 seconds. If no one answers the door, we breach the door with a heavy tool and open the door. As soon as we opened the door, we were confronted with an individual that was in a crouched position, pointing at them with an AR 15 military assault rifle, and saying -- I'm gonna quote what he said -- 'I've got something for you.' Then they engaged this individual who was pointing the weapon at them."

                            O'Connor: "The neighbors have been interviewed.... They said that the lights and sirens were on. Were they actually on? Did the neighbors hear that? This has been consistent. The neighbors said they heard the officers yelling, screaming, 'Police! Sheriff's Department!' Lights sirens... We'll take this case to the County Attorney's office."

                            O'Connor: "We thought that the wife was going to be gone with the two children to school. As it turns out, only one went to school, and the other one was still in the house with the mother. That's something we try to anticipate, we try to make it as safe as possible. In this case, she was still there."
                            Selected quotes on the site, full interview available. http://www.kgun9.com/story/14643812/...at-can-be-drug

                            911 tape as to why medics were told to stay away (fell into a room out of sight of SWAT members so they treated him as a barricaded suspect): http://www.kgun9.com/story/14688966/...-of-fatal-raid
                            Last edited by Gill; 06-02-2011, 09:13 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Decorated US Marine and Iraq War veteran shot 6o times by Pima County Regional SW

                              That video shows the SO dept in a better light, and its clear it wasn't a no knock warrant. You can hear the sirens going, and officers yelling something. You can't make it out, but I pretty sure it was something along the lines of SO Dept. Mr Guerena had plenty of time and was clearly waiting for the officers. Now, was Mr Guerena actually trying to harm the officers, or was he just startled awake and was trying to defend his family, hard to say. I can also understand the barricaded subject part, they assumed "and I think wrongly" that the subject retreated into a back room wounded. From the video its clear to see that the officers were in a state of confusion after the firing started as one of two of them fell over. I think the actual swat officer will be free and cleared of any wrong doing. We still have the issue of the warrant and if it was valid or not. The investigator/detective is going to be the one on the chopping block for this one. He takes the evidence to the DA who takes it to a judge, who ruled in favor of giving the warrant. If its found that the warrant was sufficient up to the law the investigator/detective I think can be held liable for the situation.

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