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  • Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

    https://plus.google.com/100094747939867300298/posts

    People on twitter might be joking, but in all seriousness, we would see a bigger boost in spending and hence economic growth if the earthquake had done more damage.
    http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable..._broken_window

    Edit: The above quote is a hoax. See below for Klugman's response.
    Last edited by ScratchMonkey; 08-24-2011, 12:44 PM.
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

  • #2
    Re: Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

    Terrorism is good for the economy!

    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

      It is a fallacy only if the baker would actually buy stuff. Right now many companies, and a fair number of consumers, are just sitting on cash. Not even invested, just holding cash. Many are "invested" in gold. What good is that doing the economy? It is mostly speculation driving gold prices and doing little for the economy as a whole.

      So if the economy is stagnate despite a great pool of wealth just sitting there, then some event that forces the money to start circulating wouldn't be all bad. It might, over the long run, even be more good than bad. As long as there is no loss of life. (And many economists could accept some deaths if it pays off.)

      So in a healthy, functioning economy that boy should be cursed and scorned. In what we have today? Well, maybe you call him bad with a wink.
      Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
      - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
      - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
      - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
      - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
      - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
      - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

        Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post

        So if the economy is stagnate despite a great pool of wealth just sitting there, then some event that forces the money to start circulating wouldn't be all bad. It might, over the long run, even be more good than bad. As long as there is no loss of life. (And many economists could accept some deaths if it pays off.)
        I see what your saying but the reason people are holding on to money is fear. Right now its fear of what the economy is going to do, so everyone is holding on to what they have for fear of losing it, even if that action is making the situation worse. The problem with wars and acts of terrorism is they create more fear and uncertainty. Case in point 9/11, after 9/11 the stock market went down, and things like gas went up. Even though we lost two buildings and some 3 thousand people, the actual "real" harm to the economy should have been nill, but people panicked . There were runs on gas stations, the traders in wall street loss there dam minds "speculating" and the markets went down. The best thing for the economy right now is if the Republics, Democrats and the President all pull there heads out of the asses, stop playing politics and actually get a "real" bipartisan plan that they can all get behind to address the issue of jobs, the economy and the debt. This would inspire some confidence in wall street and the average consumer and get the money flowing again.

        I fear this isn't going to happen anytime soon, both sides are to busy try to win political victories to act in the interest of the country as a whole. We just saw this with the Tea Party, while I was glad to see someone finally address the issue of the debt and push for spending cuts, they refused to give an inch when it came to tax increases. I think that if they had been willing to deal, caved in to some tax increases the actually spending cuts they did get could have been larger and on the level with what the S&P was looking for. Perhaps then our credit rating wouldn't have been downgraded.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

          If "breaking windows" helps the economy, Haiti should be richer than Luxembourg.

          Any business owners here want to explain why they're sitting on their cash instead of expanding?

          Edit: New thread for that question: http://www.tacticalgamer.com/sandbox...ot-hiring.html
          Last edited by ScratchMonkey; 08-24-2011, 11:08 AM.
          Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

          snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

          Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

            Originally posted by johnflenaly View Post
            I see what your saying but the reason people are holding on to money is fear. Right now its fear of what the economy is going to do, so everyone is holding on to what they have for fear of losing it, even if that action is making the situation worse. The problem with wars and acts of terrorism is they create more fear and uncertainty. Case in point 9/11, after 9/11 the stock market went down, and things like gas went up. Even though we lost two buildings and some 3 thousand people, the actual "real" harm to the economy should have been nill, but people panicked . There were runs on gas stations, the traders in wall street loss there dam minds "speculating" and the markets went down. The best thing for the economy right now is if the Republics, Democrats and the President all pull there heads out of the asses, stop playing politics and actually get a "real" bipartisan plan that they can all get behind to address the issue of jobs, the economy and the debt. This would inspire some confidence in wall street and the average consumer and get the money flowing again.

            I fear this isn't going to happen anytime soon, both sides are to busy try to win political victories to act in the interest of the country as a whole. We just saw this with the Tea Party, while I was glad to see someone finally address the issue of the debt and push for spending cuts, they refused to give an inch when it came to tax increases. I think that if they had been willing to deal, caved in to some tax increases the actually spending cuts they did get could have been larger and on the level with what the S&P was looking for. Perhaps then our credit rating wouldn't have been downgraded.
            +1 rep.

            I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

            Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
            J.F.C. Fuller

            Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

              "Playing politics" is what a democracy does. It's all about a bunch of wolves deciding how to split up the sheep. This time some of the sheep objected. Damn sheep should know their place.
              Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

              snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

              Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

                http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/fake-me/

                http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...dentity-theft/
                Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

                  Please note that I specifically said loss of life should be limited AND there must be .

                  So scratch, the earthquake is not a good example because many thousands died. Plus I said there has to be large pools of cash just lying around for no good reason. Haiti never, ever had large pools of cash just lying around.

                  But as anecdotal evidence I have seen some small rural towns wiped out by tornadoes and nobody died and within a year the town IS better off. Some of it is because they got outside injections of cash (gov and insurance) and some of it is because the people of the town had to also invest.

                  Right now there are many people that will not invest or buy. I know it is fear but it is the kind of fear no single action or entity can remove. If you talk about reducing government one group of people will get more afraid. Talk about increase government and another group get afraid. Talk about doing nothing and yet another group gets all scared.

                  Only two things can happen to make the world to overcome the kind of fear that is gripping them. The first is time. Humans have the wonderful ability to forget. The second is some event that is bigger than the fear of the unknown that they have. Some kind of event that get them to pull out the roles and wads of cash stashed up their bum and start spending it.

                  Personally I think now would be a good time for several of the thousands of decrepit bridges to collapse. Not with anything or anybody on them. That would spur some spending and fix a big problem.
                  Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                  - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                  - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                  - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                  - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                  - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                  - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

                    Klugman says the economy is in a "liquidity trap". I looked that up:

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ldid=279736633
                    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

                      More on the hoax, by the guy who did it:

                      http://campaignfix.com/2011/08/24/pa...-i-created-it/
                      Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                      snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                      Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

                        Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
                        Klugman says the economy is in a "liquidity trap". I looked that up:

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ldid=279736633
                        Maybe.

                        One thing I know for a fact about economics is that once you have a theory that theory affects the behavior of the economy and the actors in it thus making the theory a bit suspect.

                        We haven't seen deflation yet and it has been about three years with the policy. Not saying it won't happen but it has't yet.

                        In fact most of the inflation is just good ole supply and demand. Food prices are going up because there is decreasing food supplies due to bad weather and increasing populations and, in places like China and India, increasing purchasing power.

                        It is all a mystery to me.

                        EDIT

                        Honestly I suspect that if a decent republican is elected some of this "fear" will go away. I am not saying it is racism in the classic sense. But there are enough people that don't know how to deal with a black president named Obama that it makes getting out of the worst recession ever more difficult than it should be.

                        Come one. Other than some gay policies and the health care stuff, which hasn't even really started to kick in, Obama has been one hell of a Republican President.
                        Last edited by El_Gringo_Grande; 08-24-2011, 01:32 PM.
                        Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                        - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                        - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                        - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                        - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                        - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                        - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

                          Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                          Honestly I suspect that if a decent republican is elected some of this "fear" will go away. I am not saying it is racism in the classic sense. But there are enough people that don't know how to deal with a black president named Obama that it makes getting out of the worst recession ever more difficult than it should be.

                          Come one. Other than some gay policies and the health care stuff, which hasn't even really started to kick in, Obama has been one hell of a Republican President.
                          +Rep. Seriously I don't understand why people object to Obama so much. He has been very centrist and has tried pursuing centrist or even right sided issues. He has fought hard for compromises and bargains trying to actually get work done. I feel sadly a large part of it is racism. A large vocal minority are completely dead set on handicapping him at the expense of our country. Far too often is racism being used to play on people's fears and stupidity. I've heard it all from his last name provoking terrorist sentiments to comparisons of the nazis. It's sickening.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

                            Can you imagine the consternation in both parties if Obama suddenly changed his party declaration to Republican? :D
                            Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                            snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                            Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Help the economy: Break Paul Krugman's windows

                              A black republican, hah that's laughable. I can't speak for both parties but I'd probably be falling out of my chair.

                              Comment

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