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America.... Germany 1934

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  • America.... Germany 1934

    Obama signed the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) on the 1st January 2012

    The whole world is now considered a battlefield, anyone worldwide including US citizens can be arrested without charge or due process (just under suspicion) detained indefinitely (or till the end of hostilities ie when the war on terrorism is over... never) and/or assassinated.

    The NDAA, SOPA and all the 'executive orders' now in affect in America is exactly the kind of thing Nazi Germany went through.

    GOOGLE IT.
    250 sig character limit is retarded.

  • #2
    Re: America.... Germany 1934

    This thread made it 1 post before a Nazi reference.

    Things like NDAA could have prevented 9/11 from taking place. Not saying it's perfect, but the CIA and FBI basically had their hands tied prior to 9/11. The Military and CIA wanted to do more concerning Bin Laden but could not.

    I am not a fan of NDAA, but, alas, I was not a fan of 9/11 and the effect it had on this country, either.
    Skud


    Comment


    • #3
      Re: America.... Germany 1934

      Pre NDAA
      "FOUR LEGS GOOD, TWO LEGS BAD"
      Post NDAA:
      No question now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.


      The NDAA might have some bad consequences down the line.
      Besides I thought the ones responsible for 9/11 were taken care of already.
      I'm not too worried though, not yet anyway.
      "Nemo Saltat Sobrius, Nisi Forte Insanit"

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: America.... Germany 1934

        i76, you do realize the NDAA has been signed into effect several times over the past so many years or so right? I'm surprised it didn't get media attention until now.
        |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
        TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
        Former 9th & 13th

        Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
        Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





        SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

        TG Primer and Rules

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        • #5
          Re: America.... Germany 1934

          Who cares, can we stop it?

          Answer: No.
          Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: America.... Germany 1934

            Originally posted by Skud View Post
            This thread made it 1 post before a Nazi reference.
            That is because it is the best know result of a system where fear is the main driving force and where different ideas are deemed illegal. The stuff you should be worried about are not the terrorists, but the term in the law itself. How is it defined and can it be used for other purposes. Herein lies the danger of such a system in which the ordinary civilian has no control. Not a problem right now, I agree, but down the line when demonstrating against the sitting government is stated illegal will be a problem.....

            Terrorists are used to define people without an affiliation with a country or army and therefore 'special' rules apply. Rules like; held without any trial for unlimited amount of time. It is used to bypass human rights laws even on your own people.......and 'everybody' agrees with this?

            So comparing this law with NAZI's is wrong, since it has a completely different basis (as all of us know). Just the early warning signs are there if you look at the system imo!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: America.... Germany 1934

              Probably better to compare it with witch trials.

              Pepper

              "If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly." David Hackworth

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: America.... Germany 1934

                Originally posted by Skud View Post
                This thread made it 1 post before a Nazi reference.

                Things like NDAA could have prevented 9/11 from taking place. Not saying it's perfect, but the CIA and FBI basically had their hands tied prior to 9/11. The Military and CIA wanted to do more concerning Bin Laden but could not.

                I am not a fan of NDAA, but, alas, I was not a fan of 9/11 and the effect it had on this country, either.
                I would like to debate this position you take. AFAIK the FBI/CIA and all the rest of tyhem HAD all the necessary data available (like the flying lessons etc) but they just didn't look at it, didn't pass it on, didn't take it seriously.

                I would think that a law like this one (ndaa) is not going to help one bit to defend against "the terrorists". You know, every time in history when they take vital rights/freedoms from a people, it is under the guise of protecting the peole against some threat (jews, communists, muslims in chronological order) and if the threat is no longer there the rights never get given back. The only way that happens usually is by the people taking back their right, and paying for it with blood sweat and tears.

                It is about time imo for the US to get past the 9/11 fear and do like most countries in the world that are confronted with terrorism; mourn, and accept that the price one pays to be safe from terrorism it to be in a jail yourself, and even then you'd never ever be completely safe from such acts.

                We are some 10 years or what is it again down the road. We've had two wars motivated mostly in my opinion by feelings of revenge.

                It is time for US citizens to pay close attention to their basic rights. Bush JR and Cheney expanded executive power soo much, and limited the civilians rights also very much (patriot act etc). Many predicted that Obama, although opposed to most of Bush's policies, WOULD -for reasons one can only speculate about- NOT try to roll back this expansion of executive power. THey were right, plain and simple.

                All this rights in all the countries in the world our rights that our fathers and mothers fought and died for, again and again troughout history we see this permanent struggle to hold onto basic human rights, human dignity. This is no game to be played lightly.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: America.... Germany 1934

                  Originally posted by SharinganTH1422 View Post
                  Who cares, can we stop it?

                  Answer: No.
                  I am a big fan of compulsary voting systems like we have in Belgium, but people with an attitude like you have voiced here, an attitude which I find sincerely very sad, are the single best argument against such systems. Plz continue buying consuming and breathing so at least the co2 you produce can serve a purpose of feeding trees and weeds.

                  Oh answer... well your ancestors cared and probably suffered a hell of a lot for your right(!) to e.g. get an education, or not to get one...

                  PS I probably will get flamed for something again. But imo you were asking for a response like this (trolling the thread rly), and I really prefer colourful language to boring politeness. Don't take it personal plz.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: America.... Germany 1934

                    This is McCarthyism, not fascism/nationalism.

                    The reason so many people are apathetic is that a review of history shows that defending freedom is a constant struggle because such a large portion of the population is too stupid to know that they are losing them or are misled by the proponents of restrictions. It is hard to convince people that taxing the rich is ok, since so many people have an unrealistic expectation that they might get rich some day.

                    It's also hard to point out that just because something is said to only restrict rights for bad people doesn't mean it won't be used against regular people for other people, even though that has been the case throughout history.
                    |TG-6th|Snooggums

                    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: America.... Germany 1934

                      Originally posted by BigGaayAl View Post
                      I am a big fan of compulsary voting systems like we have in Belgium, but people with an attitude like you have voiced here, an attitude which I find sincerely very sad, are the single best argument against such systems. Plz continue buying consuming and breathing so at least the co2 you produce can serve a purpose of feeding trees and weeds.

                      Oh answer... well your ancestors cared and probably suffered a hell of a lot for your right(!) to e.g. get an education, or not to get one...

                      PS I probably will get flamed for something again. But imo you were asking for a response like this (trolling the thread rly), and I really prefer colourful language to boring politeness. Don't take it personal plz.
                      Well I was kinda trolling, but don't you see where I'm coming from? The majority of people don't care/know about a lot of legislation that restricts our freedoms gets passed. Perhaps I was feeling particularly depressed/nihilistic when I wrote that post but I think the point is still fairly valid.
                      Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: America.... Germany 1934

                        (Does Godwin's law apply if you start with a nazi refence?)

                        Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                        This is McCarthyism, not fascism/nationalism.

                        The reason so many people are apathetic is that a review of history shows that defending freedom is a constant struggle because such a large portion of the population is too stupid to know that they are losing them or are misled by the proponents of restrictions. It is hard to convince people that taxing the rich is ok, since so many people have an unrealistic expectation that they might get rich some day.

                        It's also hard to point out that just because something is said to only restrict rights for bad people doesn't mean it won't be used against regular people for other people, even though that has been the case throughout history.

                        About the "since so many people have an unrealistic expectation that they might get rich some day" bit: this is a very interesting aspect. It is also a major difference between the european and american populations, this in my eyes weird and irrational belief of getting rich, even though social mobility may be very low for an area/demographic/race/etc.

                        I suppose it is growing up with 'the american dream' as it has been explained to me by Hunter Thompson ;), but it is quite difficult to understand for me. I mean I can understand playing the slots in Lasvegas and believing you might win, but it seems like half of america is cleaning the casino toilets, yet still hoping for a one-armed bandit hand-out.

                        //I don't think this has so much to do with the apathy though, because we have the same apathy over here.

                        It seems to me that people only care about politics when they lose wealth fast, but they aren't yet very poor. The poor don't have the time, energy or education/knowledge to stand up and organize (as I saw in India) and people who have it well just don't feel enough hurt to take action.

                        I think this is why revolutions and othe rmajor social changes ae so hard to predict. The whole freaking is world full of foreign policy 'experts', yet not a SINGLE one AFAIK predicted the Arab spring.

                        It is easy -we all do it- to blame people for not taking action. But have I done more than click my mouse? Barely, ever. Oh I went to the occupy thing in my city. There were 50 hippies/squatters, dressed as hippies/punks and three undercover detectives, dressed like dockworkers. Well at least that part of it was hilarious :). THe cops could have come dressed as the Pink Panther, Winni the Pooh and a companion cube without standing out more from the crowd.

                        Lol got sidetracked :p.
                        Last edited by BigGaayAl; 02-21-2012, 12:45 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: America.... Germany 1934

                          Originally posted by BigGaayAl View Post
                          I would like to debate this position you take. AFAIK the FBI/CIA and all the rest of tyhem HAD all the necessary data available (like the flying lessons etc) but they just didn't look at it, didn't pass it on, didn't take it seriously.

                          I would think that a law like this one (ndaa) is not going to help one bit to defend against "the terrorists". You know, every time in history when they take vital rights/freedoms from a people, it is under the guise of protecting the peole against some threat (jews, communists, muslims in chronological order) and if the threat is no longer there the rights never get given back. The only way that happens usually is by the people taking back their right, and paying for it with blood sweat and tears.

                          It is about time imo for the US to get past the 9/11 fear and do like most countries in the world that are confronted with terrorism; mourn, and accept that the price one pays to be safe from terrorism it to be in a jail yourself, and even then you'd never ever be completely safe from such acts.

                          We are some 10 years or what is it again down the road. We've had two wars motivated mostly in my opinion by feelings of revenge.

                          It is time for US citizens to pay close attention to their basic rights. Bush JR and Cheney expanded executive power soo much, and limited the civilians rights also very much (patriot act etc). Many predicted that Obama, although opposed to most of Bush's policies, WOULD -for reasons one can only speculate about- NOT try to roll back this expansion of executive power. THey were right, plain and simple.

                          All this rights in all the countries in the world our rights that our fathers and mothers fought and died for, again and again troughout history we see this permanent struggle to hold onto basic human rights, human dignity. This is no game to be played lightly.
                          From what I know, the CIA had the information, but they didn't pass it along to the FBI. (CIA couldn't enforce anything within the U.S.) The major players were known, and the CIA knew they were inside of the U.S.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: America.... Germany 1934

                            Originally posted by Unload View Post
                            From what I know, the CIA had the information, but they didn't pass it along to the FBI. (CIA couldn't enforce anything within the U.S.) The major players were known, and the CIA knew they were inside of the U.S.
                            This. The CIA knew "something big" was going to go down very soon, had a rough idea who may be involved (they knew about a few of the participants etc), but could not see the outcome. Even if they had given the information to the FBI, could it have been prevented? I mean really, who would have thought they would use commercial airliners? If anything pointed to commercial airlines, our previous experience with terrorism would have lead us to believe it would be a hostage/hijack situation. Not using the planes as giant bombs.

                            I think it's important we learn from past mistakes, but we can't dwell on "what ifs." I think we should just focus on preventing future attacks. It is inevitable that we will be attacked again. But knowing what we know now, we stand a better chance to defend ourselves or outright prevent future attacks now than we did 10 years ago.

                            We're in a new era. Terrorism is no longer a threat from the outside alone. It is domestic. It is foreign. It is cyberized. It is eco. It is financial.
                            Skud


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: America.... Germany 1934

                              Using commercial planes was a known possibility for years, there just wasn't a hint that this was the time it was going to happen.

                              Just like the next obvious target is the crowds of people waiting in the security lines.

                              The only terrorism we have is the fear we have created for ourselves. We need to stop playing the victim, own up to the fact that our foreign policy has consequences, and stop letting our corporations push for foreign tyranny under the guise of promoting democracy to countries that don't want it and aren't ready for it. Be the helpful neighbor instead of the world's police.
                              |TG-6th|Snooggums

                              Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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