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R.I.P. Madiba

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  • R.I.P. Madiba

    I wanted to create a thread out of respect to a person which I have been extensively studying since I started my public management/political science university degrees. In my opinion, the person of the century. What he did for South-Africa, the fight against apartheid and the inspiration he was for the whole world, will not be forgotten.

    Hopefully, world governments and other important factions take his death as a time of reflection. Reflection of their own actions and how they affect people in their own but also other nations. To fight for hope and love instead of greed, revenge and hatred.

    Rest in peace Nelson R. Mandela

  • #2
    Re: R.I.P. Madiba

    Your view of this man changes depending on your perspective. To me he was a terrorist no different to the terrorists we get here. Just because you ask for forgiveness for mass murder doesn't make you a hero. What about the anti-white apartheid that is happening in SA now as a legacy of his terrorism and murder? He is no Ghandi.....Anyway, good riddance. The huge outpouring in the media is pretty sickening.

    EDIT: This should probably be in the sandbox.

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    • #3
      Re: R.I.P. Madiba

      I know people feel differently in the UK but jeez... Tell us how you really feel, bud.
      Skud


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      • #4
        Re: R.I.P. Madiba

        Originally posted by Skud View Post
        I know people feel differently in the UK but jeez... Tell us how you really feel, bud.
        Not so much in the UK, more a Northern Ireland thing. The mainland UK is too influenced by the mass media, which tells us this man is some kind of saint. They wanted to have a minutes silence in work today, not going to happen.

        There were no innocents back then, but somehow he comes out looking like a hero. Pretty twisted to be honest. I wish people would read about the blood on his hands, black and white, and come to their own conclusions. It is funny that even in this it seems to be "OK" that he murdered whites, and simply forgotten about all the murdered blacks. It reminds me of the September 11th controversy here, where a NI politician said 9/11 was the greatest thing to happen as it opened the eyes of the US people to the horrors of terrorism, something they have been funding here and round the world for years. If I can suggest anything, then please go read. If like Kwalc, you still believe him to be some sort of hero, fair enough, but something tells me you don't have the nitty gritty facts. If you think you do, then you are a pretty reprehensible person to revere this man.

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        • #5
          Re: R.I.P. Madiba

          Nobody is a saint. I'm just saying you need to work on your delivery. I'm well aware of what Mandela did...

          Let's be fair and make a good correlation: Nelson Mandela was a lot like Winston Churchill. A war-time leader who did a lot of horrible, horrible things.
          Skud


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          • #6
            Re: R.I.P. Madiba

            Originally posted by Skud View Post
            Nobody is a saint. I'm just saying you need to work on your delivery. I'm well aware of what Mandela did...

            Let's be fair and make a good correlation: Nelson Mandela was a lot like Winston Churchill. A war-time leader who did a lot of horrible, horrible things.
            I think the delivery is fair considering the outcry of bull we see in the media about him.

            As stated, nobody was innocent, but the portrayal of this man is pretty sickening. You call it a war.....I would disagree there, what he did, and what his party still do to this day, is ethnic cleansing and apartheid, just as the white government before did. But who cares about that, right?

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            • #7
              Re: R.I.P. Madiba

              Jeepo, your comments are incredibly ignorant and disrespectful. This is a thread to give respect. If you do not have any, simply do not post. All Africans, white or black would cry if they see someone saying what you said just now. If you have not noticed, I did and still study Mandela. Just like I study Che Guevara and Simon Bolivar. So yes, I know exactly what happened and I probably know more than you, unless you also happened to have been studying his work and life for the past 3 years.

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              • #8
                Re: R.I.P. Madiba

                Originally posted by Kwalc View Post
                Jeepo, your comments are incredibly ignorant and disrespectful. This is a thread to give respect. If you do not have any, simply do not post. All Africans, white or black would cry if they see someone saying what you said just now. If you have not noticed, I did and still study Mandela. Just like I study Che Guevara and Simon Bolivar. So yes, I know exactly what happened and I probably know more than you, unless you also happened to have been studying his work and life for the past 3 years.
                Fancy book learnin' about a lot of bad men...?

                Do Africans, and anyone else for that matter, a huge favor: don't speak as to how they feel. You, Kwalc, don't know how they feel. Even if you and I were both Africans, neither of us can speak for how other people feel. That's theirs alone.

                It'd be like me speaking for Northern Irishmen... All the studying in the world is not going to give me any ground to speak for how they feel.

                Originally posted by Jeepo
                I think the delivery is fair considering the outcry of bull we see in the media about him.

                As stated, nobody was innocent, but the portrayal of this man is pretty sickening. You call it a war.....I would disagree there, what he did, and what his party still do to this day, is ethnic cleansing and apartheid, just as the white government before did. But who cares about that, right?
                Fair enough. You'll see this with any significant historical figure. Ghandi supported the caste system and oppressed those of other faiths. Churchill ordered the bombing of hundreds of thousands of innocents. FDR illegally detained thousands of Americans based on their race. Abe Lincoln suspended habeas corpus of "rebels" and refused to participate in peace talks, although the south was eager to achieve peace.

                Governments kill. That's a fact.
                Skud


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                • #9
                  Re: R.I.P. Madiba

                  If you want me to leave the thread, I will do that now, but again for someone who has studied him, I find your reverence for the man an insult to the people he killed. To me, the fact that you HAVE studied him and still have these views seems beyond ignorant and disrespectful. I do my study on the people who I believe are interesting, and he is one of them. I decided to see, for myself, what apparently made him great, and I was pretty dumbfounded by my findings. His atrocities are hidden mostly now, buried by the "victors" of a terrible insurgency in which both sides were evil. But to call him great. As for saying all Africans would cry? Firstly, no one can speak for "all Africans", not even an African of which none of us are. Plus, I am sure that yes, a lot of Zulus will be crying with delight after the ethnic cleansing he brought upon them, and a lot of White Africans too, or they would if they didn't fear persecution and repercussions in Apartheid South Africa 2013.

                  Poignoint timing judging by one of his most famous bombings, 23rd December 1985 -

                  Amanzimtoti

                  As you can see, it is relegated to a minor footnote. Now Wikipedia is no proper measure of that, but good luck finding much anywhere without finding "White genocide" websites. It was conducted during "Operation Butterfly" - sanctioned by Mandela himself. As a socialist he ensured he had full say on the operations of the MK terrorists. Good luck finding much about this bombing, as I said, hidden due to the "winner" of the conflict. Anyway, victims:

                  Irma Bencini, 48
                  Anna Shearer, 43
                  Willem Arie Van Wyk, 2
                  Johannes Smit, 8
                  Isabella Margetha Van Wyk, 5.
                  200 injured.



                  NOTHING justifies a bomb in a shopping centre. As for Mandela and his glorious ANC? They renamed the main street in Amanzimtoti after the BOMBER in honour. I would be surprised if you learned about these things in a western spin on the Apartheid struggles. If you did and you still have respect for this man....Then fair enough I guess. Having lived with terrorism, I find that pretty disgusting, to sit in an ivory tower. Nothing personal to you mate, just the failings of a blind and forgetful perception.

                  Anyway, I take my leave, have at the thread.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    R.I.P. Madiba

                    Jeepo just dropped the mic a la Chris Rock.

                    I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

                    Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
                    J.F.C. Fuller

                    Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

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                    • #11
                      Re: R.I.P. Madiba

                      As a person who only has a passing knowledge of Mandela I'd like to have more than just claims of responsibilities of bombings. I am finding conflicting documentation and most of what appears to claim direct responsibility of Mandela are blogs and the ilk, hardly reliable sources.

                      I will say that I do not understand how being a socialist has anything to do with Mandela's supposed guilt or association to the act. Furthermore, if one assumes a state of rebellion of a native peoples who've been themselves wrongfully subjugated under the banner of another victorious nation does in fact constitute as a war, indeed there is precedence for this definition, is it not at least expected that civilians get caught up in the conflict? (Not many people cried for the Germans or the Japanese citizens during World War II who died in hundreds of thousands)

                      There, in my opinion, is an inherent difference between terrorism aimed at another group and a fight against a foreign occupier.

                      Finally, war is a terrible state of existence, by no means do I condone it or anything that happens within a war, however there are times when it is the only course at hand and it is paramount to understand that even good people, citizen soldiers that we ask to defend us, can do terrible things, and likewise so too does our enemy. The point of war isn't to always fight it's to stop the fighting.

                      Mandela is certainly no Ghandi, but maybe he is South America's Cassivellaunus.

                      Now about this white genocide...?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: R.I.P. Madiba

                        ... The point is Ghandi was no "Ghandi" either.

                        Look up "Farm attacks" in South Africa aka rape and murder of Boer.

                        http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html

                        It's happening, western media just doesn't report it.

                        EDIT: By the way, I don't attribute this to someone like Mandela. It's quite obvious to me, even if he was responsible for bombings in the 80s from behind bars, that ANC is wildy different and out of control.
                        Skud


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                        • #13
                          Re: R.I.P. Madiba

                          Thanks for the lead Skud I'll have to research the situation more in depth. The French Revolution was an ugly affair, even with good beginnings, maybe there is an analogy to be had?


                          *I'd like to correct the previous post's last statement which is meant to read 'South African' not 'South American'.

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