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  • Arrest Rates

    A fascinating bit of data:

    "Nearly half of black males and almost 40 percent of white males in the U.S. are arrested by age 23, which can hurt their ability to find work, go to school and participate fully in their communities."

    I do not have comparative data available from my own country (Canada), but I would wager that the US rate is rather exceptional.

    I wonder how this impacts on national and individual identity.
    Last edited by E-Male; 01-06-2014, 03:32 PM.
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  • #2
    Re: Arrest Rates

    I wonder what defines arrested according to the article?

    “Big Brother is Watching You.”
    ― George Orwell, "1984"

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    • #3
      Re: Arrest Rates

      Yeah, I've never been formally charged with anything, but I've been handcuffed a time or two.

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      • #4
        Re: Arrest Rates

        How many of them are for small quantities of weed?

        I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

        Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
        J.F.C. Fuller

        Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

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        • #5
          Re: Arrest Rates

          Well this touches on a host of different topics. One of them certainly is the so called war on drugs. Think of the reduction in arrests that will occur when cannabis is legal on a wide scale basis. Certainly that will be an impact.

          The elephants in the room are race and economic status. There is much debate about laws and their enforcement affecting people of color out of proportion to the population. Some say these laws are written specifically to target this portion of the population. I don't believe there is that kind of outright systemic intent but it's hard not to draw that conclusion looking at the numbers. This leaks over to economic status too. Do a greater percentage of poorer people commit more crimes compared to the same segment on the plus side of the economic equation? I'm not sure but my instincts tell me yes.


          As aa middle aged, middle class white dude I'm looking at all that from the outside in. It's hard for me to believe that laws are written to target poor people or people of color but it does seem wrong somehow that arrest rates are so skewed in that direction. In truth the U.S. is deeply divided along these lines. Sure we've made progress but scratch down to the bone and some painful realities rise to the surface.

          But E-Male--I posit the discussion is incomplete without comparable data from other modern, western societies like Canada, the U.K. and a number of EU states and more. My head isn't buried in the sand--I know the U.S. leads the world in percentage of population incarcerated and a number of other damning statistics...but cherry picking the U.S. alone to go under the microscope without a balanced comparison reveals only a portion of the puzzle.
          Last edited by Grunt 70; 01-07-2014, 03:14 PM.
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          |TG-1st|Grunt
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          • #6
            Re: Arrest Rates

            Well I believe that Norway, Sweden and Switzerland are amazing places to compare to. Although I am from the US, we can compare the state of the Us to theirs and see what events may be able to play in why the US have a problem with Crime Rates. But keep in mind, many countries don't enforce or even have laws to arrest people, so thy don't have ranks.

            The US also has so many people entering for Spring Break, music concerts and more that when they celebrate, they can get a bit crazy and have to spend a night or two in the Slammer. So these rates increase. Anther thing which I would like to call is that Arrests are different then going to jail, because we are all innocent until proven guilty.
            Questions about those who deserve it!
            "Remember, no survivors" -Myself and probably what explains my methods the most

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            • #7
              Re: Arrest Rates

              Originally posted by BolivianRAMPAGE View Post
              Well I believe that Norway, Sweden and Switzerland are amazing places to compare to. Although I am from the US, we can compare the state of the Us to theirs and see what events may be able to play in why the US have a problem with Crime Rates. But keep in mind, many countries don't enforce or even have laws to arrest people, so thy don't have ranks.

              The US also has so many people entering for Spring Break, music concerts and more that when they celebrate, they can get a bit crazy and have to spend a night or two in the Slammer. So these rates increase. Anther thing which I would like to call is that Arrests are different then going to jail, because we are all innocent until proven guilty.
              The more you compare those Scandinavian countries to the U.S. the more you'll want to stop comparing. Their social and economic policies are of the most excellent in the world. I do not think its related to social events as Europe is a major destination for festivals and I doubt the european rate is even close. I tried to find some information about Holland so we can actually compare, but I havn't found anything so far. They seem to only list the number of crimes committed but not the number of actual arrests. I'll keep digging to see what I can come up with.

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              • #8
                Re: Arrest Rates

                An issue here is that so many things are criminalized nowadays due to a "get tough on crime" wave that's been around for the past 10-20 years. Yes, a lot of it is drugs, but it's scary how easy it is to get arrested anymore.

                I wonder if you took out marginal DUI arrests (think .09), personal marijuana possession, public intoxication, etc, how that number would be affected.

                As far as the laws being targeted toward minorities or poor people, I don't buy into that.. Shoplifting is shoplifting, regardless of race. It's just a simple fact that minorities skew toward being poor, and for a variety of reasons, poor people commit more crimes than middle and upper class people.

                3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

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                • #9
                  Re: Arrest Rates

                  Originally posted by Tempus View Post
                  As far as the laws being targeted toward minorities or poor people, I don't buy into that.. Shoplifting is shoplifting, regardless of race. It's just a simple fact that minorities skew toward being poor, and for a variety of reasons, poor people commit more crimes than middle and upper class people.
                  I'll have to find the source i read this in, but this isn't true. White kids (like 14 year olds) shoplifting aren't charged with shoplifting. They're let off with a warning. This means when they do it again, its shoplifting. Minorities aren't given that first warning, so their second offense is typically much more harshly punished. This means that they're running into various "three strikes" rules as they get older. Its not a legal issue, necessarily. But if you have slight unconscious biases on the part of the cops and judges for juvenile offenders, you'll get a societal effect that snowballs, leading to a much higher arrest rate for adults.
                  I can ADS using more than a 2x without significant stutter! This was a good patch.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Arrest Rates

                    The classes are always treated differently under the law and in other institutional contexts. One only has to look at the stop and search laws of New York city that clearly target blacks to see how law is used to maintain the division between the classes.

                    And the defense of "affluence" -- how can anyone take that seriously as blind justice?

                    I am not sure that the poor commit more crimes. How many CEOs, brokers and bankers were tossed in jail for mortage fraud and so forth after they brought the American economy to its knees? Corruption is rampant in the managerial class (both business and government) but largely goes unpunished. Consider the disparity between how crime is treated between the classes: "The nature of white collar crime - its complexity, the power of its perpetrators - means that only an unrepresentative minority of offenses is detected and officially recorded." Unequal distribution of power must be accounted for when looking at crime rates. It is not merely a matter of which class commits more crime but which class is better equiped to evade detection and prosecution.
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                    • #11
                      Re: Arrest Rates

                      Originally posted by E-Male View Post
                      I am not sure that the poor commit more crimes. How many CEOs, brokers and bankers were tossed in jail for mortage fraud and so forth after they brought the American economy to its knees? Corruption is rampant in the managerial class (both business and government) but largely goes unpunished. Consider the disparity between how crime is treated between the classes: "The nature of white collar crime - its complexity, the power of its perpetrators - means that only an unrepresentative minority of offenses is detected and officially recorded." Unequal distribution of power must be accounted for when looking at crime rates. It is not merely a matter of which class commits more crime but which class is better equiped to evade detection and prosecution.
                      Valid points to be sure, but just how many CEOs and such do you think should be prosecuted? 100? 1,000? 10,000?

                      Contrast that with the fact that there are over 1,000,000 violent crimes committed annually in the US. And some 9,000,000 property crimes.

                      So, a lot of crime is happening, and yes, the majority of it is done by lower income individuals. The guy with the 9-5 office job is typically not out there breaking into cars or shop lifting. It happens, sure, but is not common.

                      Also, related: http://www.areyouacriminal.com/

                      3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Arrest Rates

                        I care a lot more about gang and drug related violence than I do about McScrooge the Duck, just my opinion. Not saying they should get away with it at all, just stating my opinion.
                        Skud


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                        • #13
                          Re: Arrest Rates

                          I'm pretty sure every single person breaks the law in their lifetime, voluntarily or otherwise. Unless off course, you are Buddha or some other divine entity.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Arrest Rates

                            Originally posted by Razcsak View Post
                            I'll have to find the source i read this in, but this isn't true. White kids (like 14 year olds) shoplifting aren't charged with shoplifting. They're let off with a warning. This means when they do it again, its shoplifting. Minorities aren't given that first warning, so their second offense is typically much more harshly punished. This means that they're running into various "three strikes" rules as they get older. Its not a legal issue, necessarily. But if you have slight unconscious biases on the part of the cops and judges for juvenile offenders, you'll get a societal effect that snowballs, leading to a much higher arrest rate for adults.
                            Interesting. People being people, I suppose anything can happen anywhere, including the aforementioned discrimination. However, speaking as a police officer, I've never seen this sort of racially-based prosecution. I've worked in "culturally diverse" areas, as they're sometimes called. For me, a thief is a thief. If the business owner wants the offender to be prosecuted, then they're charged with shoplifting. If it's a large chain, this decision is dictated by corporate policy (some stores refuse to prosecute, some stores prosecute everyone). Small chains usually let the offender go, despite my insistence that they prosecute the crime. White, black, Hispanic, old, young, female, male, I've seen shoplifters of all shapes and sizes. I'd charge them all, but that's not my decision unless I'm the one that caught them in the act...

                            As for violent crimes, it was always someone from a poor area of town. Usually a minority. The predominately-black areas of town were high crime areas, with shootings, robberies, drug rips, assaults, etc. People like what they don't have, and humans seem to want to take the easy way to obtain what they want. This leads to crime. As the leader of a local group of Black Gangster Disciples who was caught up in a federal trial stated on Facebook, he was "makin money da only way we know" (speaking of the drug trade).

                            Just my observations.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Arrest Rates

                              If you wanted to do a statistical analysis of arrest rates and reasons, you could always view a booking log, if available.

                              For example, the booking log for Clarksville, TN and Montgomery County.

                              http://www.mcgtn.org/sheriff/booking

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