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  • Any Russian or UK freinds care to explain

    All I have heard is about Crimea is whats said from the corporate mainstream media here in the us. Never fear, I am educated in there ways and do not believe anything they say. I started doing research last night on this whole Crimea thing, everything from RT news to Anon posts to the local Russian and Crimean posts. So far all I can tell for sure is, Crimean Gov was once part of Russia, and now part of the UK, the gov was corrupt so there was a vote with 86% turn out witch 96% of that voted to rejoin Russia. Russia moved in peacefully and parts of the corrupt Crimean gov staged the sniper incident, the whole Jew registry thing, and the US media being the puppets they are is trying to sell this thing as an aggressive act by the Russians pitting evil against good and rally support. Because if Cirmea turns from part of the UK back to Russia the US will loose all its influence with Crimea, its pipeline and the ability to put all are Big national banks in there, not to mention having a piece of land to keep US forces. I fear the US will try another Gulf of Tonkin. It is so sad that I am beginning to loose all faith in are GOV. NSA is flagging this right now wondering about me, are news media lies to us, are officials are corrupt and or stupid, the income gap gets larger, BRAKES! Sorry
    If anyone here can correct me on the information I have obtained please fill me in. It becomes difficult to connect the picture with so much conflicting info. I even heard something about pyramids being found in Crimea which are the oldest ever with ancient tech and a mummified body that wasn't human. So this is the crap I must sort through.

  • #2
    Re: Any Russian or UK freinds care to explain

    Just wanted to throw out there that the abbreviation for Ukraine is UA...

    You can get some truth out of our News channels. You just have to watch equal parts CNN, Fox, and MSNBC. Then immediately discount everything said that is contradictory between the three, and you are left with a solid 10-25% of real actual journalism you can trust. :D

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    • #3
      Re: Any Russian or UK freinds care to explain

      Originally posted by Harlequin View Post
      Just wanted to throw out there that the abbreviation for Ukraine is UA...

      You can get some truth out of our News channels. You just have to watch equal parts CNN, Fox, and MSNBC. Then immediately discount everything said that is contradictory between the three, and you are left with a solid 10-25% of real actual journalism you can trust. :D
      Ya thanks didnt know that.

      Ya I watch them all, even listen to rush (who I loath) and sad to say I believe what the daily show or Colbert says before all of the main stream news outlets. A lot of alternative news like,
      Truthout.org , Juice Media rap news, and Lee Camp is very good for a comic. IF you like George Carlin, Bill Hicks and the sort chances are good you will like him. After learning how the system really works it is easy to pull the stink out of the crap to make an educated guess. Still... its way to much to filter to really get to the truth sometimes. You have to do your own research, for instance the pyramids found in Crimea, I went to many science, geology, and other sites to investigate but found no info at all on the matter, so guess it didnt happen. lol
      Last edited by Shane; 04-23-2014, 09:28 PM. Reason: fixing image

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      • #4
        Re: Any Russian or UK freinds care to explain

        Originally posted by Shane View Post
        All I have heard is about Crimea is whats said from the corporate mainstream media here in the us. Never fear, I am educated in there ways and do not believe anything they say. I started doing research last night on this whole Crimea thing, everything from RT news to Anon posts to the local Russian and Crimean posts. So far all I can tell for sure is, Crimean Gov was once part of Russia, and now part of the UK, the gov was corrupt so there was a vote with 86% turn out witch 96% of that voted to rejoin Russia. Russia moved in peacefully and parts of the corrupt Crimean gov staged the sniper incident, the whole Jew registry thing, and the US media being the puppets they are is trying to sell this thing as an aggressive act by the Russians pitting evil against good and rally support.
        I'm all for skepticism, and I am very skeptical of '24/7 news sources', however, I do not understand how one can be so willing to distrust something that at least can be peer-reviewed (any 'mainstream' journalism) in favor for something which can not be vetted at all; IE 'anon', 'conspiracy theories' (which may be true, indeed their are conflicting conspiracy theories shared by people pro-Ukraine and people pro-Russia), and even Russia Today (which when you posted that wonderful Juice Media video I thought you equally distrusted).

        Why, in your skepticism, do you seek to weight biases on sources that you can never honestly vet? I'm not saying Ukraine didn't stage the sniper incident in Crimea, but how do you know it was so? Why do you assume just that just US media sources are sour and not Russian and even Ukraine? How do you know you aren't just reading a crank's post, or watching a crank's video?

        I remember after the Boston Bombing last year there were tons of cranks out in force (hell they still are) but much of what they tried to predict what this 'red flag operation' was designed for never freaking happened. In particular I remember an Anon post on freaking reddit saying that he was an insider and that he realized he was preparing for the Boston Bombing; he claimed that it was going to be an effort to restrict bullets based on the gunpowder stored within. Yeah, uhuh.

        On top of that why are you so skeptical of the US but apparently unwilling to be skeptical of Russia's motivation? A counter theory to all of this commotion is that after the ousting of the old Ukrainian President (after armed conflict from both sides) and the installing of a Pro-West interim President was too much of a risk for Russia, indeed, these protesters wanted to go to the EU! Russia is literally right next door to Ukraine and prior to Crimea's annexation relied heavily on agreements to use their ports. Think about it, Russia had an agreement for BILLIONS of dollars with Ukraine and after Viktor Yanukovych fled his post they lost this agreement because many people wanted a MILLION dollar agreement with the EU. Considering that Russia has had constant large dollar figure agreements with Ukraine (of which the lavish presidential palace was renovated) why wouldn't they seek to reign that country back in when it strays from what they want?

        Also why, in your skepticism, aren't you questioning the result of the 'referendum' in Crimea? A nearly 90% agreement, something which only has presented itself in simple elections or in 'elections' inside North Korea and Russia? Reports suggest that the two options given were:

        1) Become an autonomous state of Crimea
        2) Become a state of Russia



        ==================


        Because if Cirmea turns from part of the UK back to Russia the US will loose all its influence with Crimea, its pipeline and the ability to put all are Big national banks in there, not to mention having a piece of land to keep US forces. I fear the US will try another Gulf of Tonkin.
        While I'm against how big our banks have gotten here I've no idea that we were trying to put our US banks into Ukraine. Furthermore, I don't remember EVER having the authority to place US troops inside any part of Ukraine ever.

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        • #5
          Re: Any Russian or UK freinds care to explain

          I'm all for skepticism, and I am very skeptical of '24/7 news sources', however, I do not understand how one can be so willing to distrust something that at least can be peer-reviewed (any 'mainstream' journalism) in favor for something which can not be vetted at all; IE 'anon', 'conspiracy theories'
          OH I am skeptical, especially of ANON post and the like. The difference is the fact that people with phones/cameras on the ground covering an event are not bought and paid for by the powers that be and are a part of the event, recording what they are witnessing first hand in an attempt to release the truth of a matter. That dose not make it true nor is it without personal bias and it very well could be a staged event by the powers that be. This is where an educated guess comes into play and I do not know enough about either side to make a well informed guess on the events unfolding. My rational process is always asking myself who is the benefactor and I follow the money and or known agendas.

          Why, in your skepticism, do you seek to weight biases on sources that you can never honestly vet? I'm not saying Ukraine didn't stage the sniper incident in Crimea, but how do you know it was so? Why do you assume just that just US media sources are sour and not Russian and even Ukraine? How do you know you aren't just reading a crank's post, or watching a crank's video?
          Thats just it, I dont know. I am positive ALL media RT included are there to influence the minds of the viewer with there perspective. Right now in are day and age it is very difficult for anyone but the ones at hand to know absolutely of the truth. The information tech revolution at hand is a double edged sword, which is why it is more important today to look at the cogs turning the machine and understand what is fueling it. Yes I am drowning in cranks posts everyday lol it can drive one to insanity, but most times they are easy to pick out.


          On top of that why are you so skeptical of the US but apparently unwilling to be skeptical of Russia's motivation?
          I did not mean for it to seem so. As in I distrust them both equally. US just happens to be my home and I fear for it as I see the divide and ignorance injected into the populace from all outlets while support for one another, education and fact are voided over in an attempt to keep every one distracted and pitted against one another over issues that do not truly matter, all while the machine nears its end goal in the background of all the noise.

          Also why, in your skepticism, aren't you questioning the result of the 'referendum' in Crimea?
          Oh I do, I was just stating what it was I have read. If you have to worry about votes in are own states (which I do) being false you can damn sure believe it is happening else where.

          While I'm against how big our banks have gotten here I've no idea that we were trying to put our US banks into Ukraine. Furthermore, I don't remember EVER having the authority to place US troops inside any part of Ukraine ever.
          Starting in 1913 with the federal reserve which BTW is a private organization, (nothing federal about it) they have manipulated every aspect of this fiat currency we have in place today. Creating bubbles, deflating and inflating currency at there whim to create an outcome all at the benefit of the wealthy while stripping hard working people of there savings and lives. Creating hard ship and despair among the globe. These big banks keep the nations they are in under there thumb and in debt just like the people here in the US, while providing tax havens for the rich and squandering what wealth that nation may have had.
          The US claims to go into a country for, Humanity injustices, threats against US citezens, or to help an ally. HMM... that only applies IF they have something the US wants or needs, Oil, Land for bases, what have you. Being that all of a sudden it seems like it is the cold war all over again the fact that we support UA and we are debating over sending weapons it only comes to me as a logical assumption that are US gov has plans for this given the fact that we are spread all over the globe.

          Russians are people just like us, love there families, there sports, ect...(NOT EVIL) the only ones causing trouble are both of are gov officials and media fules the fire. I am sorry to say history has taught me NOT to trust are gov, and personal experience has shown me this to be true. Even though you and I and most of the US are good people we allow are gov to do horrible things in the name of FREEDOM! Well I say BS. This is why most of the planet no longer looks at us as good guys, but in fact seen as evil, selfish, stupid, tyrants. Although yes most of the populace is ignorant, and some stupid and selfish. We truly are a great nation with the majority being caring and only want peace and a good life for are family. Now that a good life is harder for the majority to reach people are waking up, I just hope it happens quicker before are jack asses in office put us into world war III.

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          • #6
            Re: Any Russian or UK freinds care to explain



            Close to are topic and one of my favorites :)

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            • #7
              Re: Any Russian or UK freinds care to explain

              Originally posted by Shane View Post
              I did not mean for it to seem so. As in I distrust them both equally. US just happens to be my home and I fear for it as I see the divide and ignorance injected into the populace from all outlets while support for one another, education and fact are voided over in an attempt to keep every one distracted and pitted against one another over issues that do not truly matter, all while the machine nears its end goal in the background of all the noise.
              I'm not one to think that their is an ultimate known end-goal for any one in particular, just motivations and human nature. On one hand people bicker because we will always disagree, in fact the more freedom to splinter our own moralities/ideologies the more splintered we will become (the only glue to stop this is tolerance and respect of differences). On the other, certainly some people benefit from prohibiting and impeding progress (technological or socio-economic) and we can't doubt that some people (corporations and industry really) do what they can to create conflict and doubt (the oil industry's attachment to leaded gasoline is one such example) to ensure their profitable status quo (because corporations, unlike people, survive off of profits and don't worry about lead poisoning we weak carbon life forms have).

              Ultimately though I just don't even think their is one true truth in most human affairs. Painting issues in black and white is easy and helps us decide what to agree with but human affairs just aren't monochrome. Likewise there is never ever going to be a perfect solution or path to follow.



              Oh I do, I was just stating what it was I have read. If you have to worry about votes in are own states (which I do) being false you can damn sure believe it is happening else where.
              This is an aside but I'd like to hear more of what you have to say about it here.



              Starting in 1913 with the federal reserve which BTW is a private organization, (nothing federal about it) they have manipulated every aspect of this fiat currency we have in place today. Creating bubbles, deflating and inflating currency at there whim to create an outcome all at the benefit of the wealthy while stripping hard working people of there savings and lives. Creating hard ship and despair among the globe. These big banks keep the nations they are in under there thumb and in debt just like the people here in the US, while providing tax havens for the rich and squandering what wealth that nation may have had.
              I don't like big banks, I do think their power is too large (and their checks too minor) in the US, and I know they are concerned about their own wealth, but I doubt the Federal Reserve is an omnipotent force capable of being blamed not only for every economic disaster but for conspiring to make the disaster occur just as it had for intentional power gains. Too few people gain money from things like the Great Depression and the Great Recession. Again, though, unless you can draw a straight line from the FED, which is a common 'demon' for many conspiracy stories (much like the UN is), to Ukraine I don't see its relevance here.


              The US claims to go into a country for, Humanity injustices, threats against US citezens, or to help an ally. HMM... that only applies IF they have something the US wants or needs, Oil, Land for bases, what have you. Being that all of a sudden it seems like it is the cold war all over again the fact that we support UA and we are debating over sending weapons it only comes to me as a logical assumption that are US gov has plans for this given the fact that we are spread all over the globe.
              This is an area of national geopolitical philosophy I fear. Super-Powers, be they necessary or not, are so named because they are among the most powerful economical forces in a region. Today, the region is beyond a continent or hemisphere, indeed it is the world (global trade etc etc). As a result a super-power benefits from the status quo and abhors sudden and drastic changes. Worse yet are changes that are based on war or military actions, because often times the only way to mitigate such changes is through forceful action.

              Obviously, the US would prefer the Ukraine to stay west friendly, but more so is the concept that a sovereign state should be able to decide its own issues without direct external interference like we saw in Crimea. Consider that Russia is on record for bullying ex-soviet states, what is beneficial about having an opinion that suggests any nation can just land grab through force? Certainly, its hypocritical for us to be taking this stance so shortly after our invasion in Iraq but the glorious thing about a democratic form of governance is that Clinton's America is not the same thing as Andrew Jackson's!

              I'd suggest reading this article from N+1, https://nplusonemag.com/issue-19/the...-and-the-west/, I really like this magazine and while I don't suggest taking their opinion at face value please use it to help paint the picture of what is going on in Ukraine.

              Russians are people just like us, love there families, there sports, ect...(NOT EVIL) the only ones causing trouble are both of are gov officials and media fules the fire.
              And this is why conflict is wrong, and yet what about the Ukrainian families? What about the people in Crimea who didn't want to leave Ukraine and boycotted the elections because they were a sham? Why was Russia occupying Crimea despite signing an agreement about respecting Ukraine's sovereignty?


              I am sorry to say history has taught me NOT to trust are gov, and personal experience has shown me this to be true. Even though you and I and most of the US are good people we allow are gov to do horrible things in the name of FREEDOM! Well I say BS. This is why most of the planet no longer looks at us as good guys, but in fact seen as evil, selfish, stupid, tyrants. Although yes most of the populace is ignorant, and some stupid and selfish. We truly are a great nation with the majority being caring and only want peace and a good life for are family. Now that a good life is harder for the majority to reach people are waking up, I just hope it happens quicker before are jack asses in office put us into world war III.
              But what about Russia's invasion of Crimea, or Georgia a few years back, is any different? Why are you worried about WWIII? Why is it America that is doing all that is wrong? Frankly, American's aren't seen as evil, selfish maybe, decadent? depends on whom you ask, tyrants? well according to both sides in Egypt we aide the other side they fight against.

              Frankly, for you to say 'that most of the populace is ignorant, and some stupid...', you aren't entirely coherent either and I'd wish you'd use less demagoguery to get your point across. Facts. I want facts about what the US is doing, in your opinion, to stir a war in Ukraine. I'd also want to see why is it okay for Russia to be the main foreign instigator. This is an issue for Ukraine to solve and I've yet to hear a darn thing about a single US or even NATO soldier entering west Ukraine but East Ukraine has thousands of Russian's on the borders and many gun men just up and taking over police stations violently.

              The former Ukrainian President balked on a trade deal with the EU, one he promised to sign, in favor of closer ties to Russia and a direct donation of billions of dollars from them. Then people protested that, the protests got out of hand as 'right wing nationalists' used the polarization to show out in force (left wing groups were attacked), and suddenly, miles away from the protests, Russia rolls it's troops into Crimea and blockades Ukrainian military bases, and suddenly people who were pro-Ukraine, not pro-Russia, were getting beat in the streets.

              I understand that 'War on Terror' America has left a bad taste in people's mouth, I understand that the country is more and more being ran by the plutocrats, and I understand that war freaking sucks, but that doesn't mean that every situation is black and white and that all politicians are evil or bad even ones I vehemently disagree with (Rand Paul, for example).

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Any Russian or UK freinds care to explain

                Originally posted by Ytman View Post
                I'm not one to think that their is an ultimate known end-goal for any one in particular, just motivations and human nature.

                Ultimately though I just don't even think their is one true truth in most human affairs. Painting issues in black and white is easy and helps us decide what to agree with but human affairs just aren't monochrome. Likewise there is never ever going to be a perfect solution or path to follow.
                It's really simple, The powerful want more power, the rich want more riches. Yes there are a handful of wealthy that care for the planet and the human race and all have there own personal agenda but the majority of the powers that be want only that, More power.


                This is an aside but I'd like to hear more of what you have to say about it here.
                Bills passed in the middle of the night, hidden legalese, computer engineers testifying in court to requests for the ability to flip votes in Florida and I believe also Ohio. Districts set up for candidates to recieve votes from the people of there choosing, the elctorial college, Bush vs Gore ect... ect...

                I doubt the Federal Reserve is an omnipotent force capable of being blamed not only for every economic disaster but for conspiring to make the disaster occur just as it had for intentional power gains. Too few people gain money from things like the Great Depression and the Great Recession.



                Indentured slavery is all this is.

                Certainly, its hypocritical for us to be taking this stance so shortly after our invasion in Iraq but the glorious thing about a democratic form of governance is that Clinton's America is not the same thing as Andrew Jackson's!
                Correct, but only if you are speaking of things like, abortion, gay marriage, ect, ect. Most of which is busy work and there to create a divide and used as a distraction all while the underline true problems that matter go unchecked ie: climate change, debt, corruption. BTW we are no longer a democratic society, we ARE an Oligarchy. Puppets are in office and the dollar pulls there strings.

                I'd suggest reading this article from N+1, https://nplusonemag.com/issue-19/the...-and-the-west/, I really like this magazine and while I don't suggest taking their opinion at face value please use it to help paint the picture of what is going on in Ukraine.
                Good read, it cleared a few things up for me.

                But what about Russia's invasion of Crimea, or Georgia a few years back, is any different? Why are you worried about WWIII? Why is it America that is doing all that is wrong? Frankly, American's aren't seen as evil, selfish maybe, decadent? depends on whom you ask, tyrants? well according to both sides in Egypt we aide the other side they fight against.
                I worry cause we have puppets in office who are the mouth pieces for the truly powerful who do not have boarders or loyalties to the U.S. people. You said it yourself, playing both sides in Egypt.

                Frankly, for you to say 'that most of the populace is ignorant, and some stupid...', you aren't entirely coherent either and I'd wish you'd use less demagoguery to get your point across. Facts. I want facts about what the US is doing, in your opinion, to stir a war in Ukraine. I'd also want to see why is it okay for Russia to be the main foreign instigator.
                I have no shame in accepting my ignorance on issues, that was the reason I started this post. Ignorance is not knowing, weather through apathy or design by corporate media outlets to confuse the populace or simply mislead them. Stupid is a small part of society but trust me I see it every day, and it scares the crap out of me. I was unclear on what demagoguery means so I looked it up and still don't understand how it applies to my posts, my intentions are not to offend, but yes I am passionate and I will tear at the walls of corruption and injustice to my dieing breath with strong conviction. I love my children but that does not mean they never disappoint me, you could say I feel the same for America. As far as facts go for this situation in U.A. I can only apply what history has taught me, and it is clear coming from the the media that they want to make are president look weak all while trying to sound the drums of war. I apologize if my words seem to be incoherent. I am not sure where you got the idea that I think what Russia is doing is ok?

                I understand that 'War on Terror' America has left a bad taste in people's mouth, I understand that the country is more and more being ran by the plutocrats, and I understand that war freaking sucks, but that doesn't mean that every situation is black and white and that all politicians are evil or bad even ones I vehemently disagree with (Rand Paul, for example).
                You are correct that things are not black and white, and yes not all politicians are evil, I like Elizabeth Warren and a few others, but they are playing a rigged game and the changes we need I fear will not be addressed in time.

                The more complicated something becomes the better the chance of it being untrue. Reasonable deduction to its simplest form often reveals truth.
                Last edited by Shane; 04-30-2014, 12:58 PM. Reason: bad video post

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