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Saddam Hussain captured alive!!!

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  • #61
    I operate under no authority neither implied nor expressed :P

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    • #62
      THEY CAUGHT SADDAM!?!?!?! how comes there isnt a thread devoted to it? :D

      (and thanks H-Hour, i know what i want to say but can never get my point across correctly......)
      From Adam Webb

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Wolfie
        Some could point out that the Jews had a claim to the land before the Palestinians and that they were forced out of the land back during the Bibliocal times. So on one hand you can say "well the Palestinians are already there" or on the other hand you can say "the Jews lived in the land before they were pushed out, pushed out in fact by armies consisting of Palestinians among others"
        While that is certainly a valid point, I don't think it justifies removing power from a large group of people already on the land. Throughout history great peoples have been displaced. Are we going to start making reparations for all of that? If so then we need to install a Native American government over the existing US government. A Mayan government in Central America, the Monguls, the Huns, the Romans (although the Romans really didn't displace people so much).

        Like I said, definitely a valid point. I'm not saying Jews should not be in Palestine, I was only saying that the sort of blank check power they were suddenly handed over the land was not justified.



        Originally posted by leejo
        Practically speaking, it makes no sense to call that the "false" state of Israel. Legally, it makes no sense to call it a false state, since appropriate authorities established it. By what authority do you make your claim, because I don't get it.
        I was speaking on human terms. Not legal terms or political terms.

        Originally posted by leejo
        You must also choose to ignore the authority of the U.N., who established it. You must also choose to ignore the authority of the vast majority of sovereign powers who refer to that land as Israel.
        I don't ignore it. I just don't condone it. I don't agree with it.

        Originally posted by leejo
        You must also ignore the formidable army of Israel itself, who have several times beaten back armies who rolled in trying to claim that land for themselves.
        The Israeli army is one of the best armies in the country. That's for sure. But you take away international (read: US) funding and Israel would crumble in months. There's just not enough Israelis in Palestine to take on the Palestinians without the constant financial support they get.
        [volun]

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        • #64
          Originally posted by CingularDuality
          Yeah, dragon posted an article that specifically stated that he's NOT a POW... (I tried to ignore the fact that he tried to use that article to say that he was a POW...)
          http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/12/15/sprj.irq.saddam.legal.status/index.html

          Well I read it as he WAS a POW
          "He is being accorded all of the rights of a prisoner of war, and we're going to treat him humanely," said Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, in an interview with CNN. "We're going to treat him in accordance with the Geneva Convention, but his actual end-state status is yet to be determined,"

          That convention defined those eligible for POW status as members of an armed force, members of a militia or volunteer corps and members of a regular armed force that professes allegiance not recognized by a detaining power.
          WARNING: DO NOT LET DR. MARIO TOUCH YOUR GENITALS. HE IS NOT A REAL DOCTOR.

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          • #65
            http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/12/18/sprj.irq.saddam.photo/index.html

            Leading human rights organization Amnesty International has branded as humiliating the publication of a new photo of Saddam Hussein.
            Nicole Choveiry, Middle East spokeswoman for Amnesty International, criticized the release of any image that seemed to serve no purpose.

            "We didn't disagree with a picture of Saddam being released that proved his identity but not with those that showed him being medically examined," she told CNN.

            "Saddam Hussein should be classified as a prisoner of war. If he's not a prisoner of war, I don't know what is," she said.
            I will take a stab at this....How about a criminal? How about a brutal dictator? Prisoner of War? Nope. He was a fugitive on the run, now he is a captured fugitive.

            Blah, what is Amnesty International going to do anyway? Write up a report protesting it :P

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            • #66
              So Amnesty International now has the power to declare war?

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Wolfie
                http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/12/18/sprj.irq.saddam.photo/index.html

                "We didn't disagree with a picture of Saddam being released that proved his identity but not with those that showed him being medically examined," she told CNN.
                I will take a stab at this....How about a criminal? How about a brutal dictator? Prisoner of War? Nope. He was a fugitive on the run, now he is a captured fugitive.

                sod it, I'll bite.
                It's a fair point isn't it? Irrespective of trials etc, an ID photo or film would have sufficed. A medical examination is too much isn't it?

                Now the hard bit. I don't disagree with any of it, it is propoganda. BUT

                When the captured allies were paraded, there was furore. Is this different. And before anyone answers, 'well they didn't respect the rules, why should we' that really isn't a good argument.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Benny_
                  When the captured allies were paraded, there was furore. Is this different. And before anyone answers, 'well they didn't respect the rules, why should we' that really isn't a good argument.
                  Showing him getting a medical exam is a bit different from showing a couple of soldiers being dragged through the streets, being kicked and stomped by people while it's all being filmed...

                  After a significant portion of Iraq doubted that we had killed Qusay and Uday we were forced to release photos of them that proved their identity. I think it was good that we removed any doubts right off the bat this time....
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                  • #69
                    We humans like to justify everything we do.

                    The moment the photos go beyond the proving of identity, the photos are unnecessary within the bounds of the rules, and are therefore a flag on the play, in my book.

                    In related news, I could not support an argument saying that the medical exam video was served in the interest of proving identity.

                    Wyzcrak
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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Wyzcrak
                      the photos are unnecessary within the bounds of the rules
                      Whose rules?
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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Wyzcrak
                        In related news, I could not support an argument saying that the medical exam video was served in the interest of proving identity.
                        That was some of the first video we took.... How can you say that?
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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by CingularDuality
                          Originally posted by Wyzcrak
                          the photos are unnecessary within the bounds of the rules
                          Whose rules?
                          The ones we claim to play by?

                          Wyzcrak
                          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by CingularDuality
                            Originally posted by Wyzcrak
                            In related news, I could not support an argument saying that the medical exam video was served in the interest of proving identity.
                            That was some of the first video we took.... How can you say that?
                            I am amazed you just asked this question.

                            It is irrelevent that the camera man's first opportunity happened to be a medical exam (unlikely that this is fact, but we shall assume it as such for the sake of argument). The medical exam wasn't necessary to prove to the film's viewer that the captive being filmed was a particular person. They just as easily could have filmed his profile against a random wall, filmed him turning 90 or 180 degrees, and released that footage. If you think the ONLY thing on the tape was the medical exam, you're not thinking very critically. And if the medical exam WAS the only thing on the tape, the US isn't showing much respect for the rules of the game by choosing to not get more footage for release.

                            Wyzcrak
                            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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                            • #74
                              maybe the video was released to prove the naysayers that SH was being treated in a humane manner. If the video wasn't released, people would start sprouting off that SH was being locked in a dungeon somewhere and he wasn't getting medical attention.

                              The fact that the video in question showe SH receiving medical treatment by American personal should keep those people shut up. And it proves to the world that SH is being treated and not being neglected.

                              As for being a POW, since when are terrorists and terrorist leaders POWs? He was directing some attacks on Americans so that makes him a terrorist, not a war prisoner.

                              But that is okay, the US should stop showing pictures and videos of SH being cared for. We should only release pictures of him getting shocked or beating by a cane. :P

                              Reality calling Raghad Hussein....

                              http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/12/18/sprj.irq.saddam.daughter/index.html

                              "Anyone with insight could tell from the first instance that my father was not fully conscious," she said. "As a daughter, I told them from the start, my father is drugged. I am 100 percent convinced."

                              "My personal expectation is that one of the people he relied on must have put something in his food, or that there is a military technique of some sort or a gas that can drug a person. Because I know my father and he would never surrender."
                              Hmmm, maybe someone should mention to her that of course her father looked strong in the past when he had thugs terrorizing everyone around him and they couldn't lift a finger in protest or they would have been shot......

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                              • #75
                                "That is what they said. But whoever saw it and heard it ... If it were true, why didn't they film the capture, as they claimed it had happened in the media? It was an event they had been waiting for a long time, they supposedly should have filmed it from the very beginning."
                                "My personal expectation is that one of the people he relied on must have put something in his food, or that there is a military technique of some sort or a gas that can drug a person. Because I know my father and he would never surrender."
                                I see it now.....

                                Saddam - I am Saddam Hussein, president of Iraq, and I want to negotiate

                                soldiers - Hey hold on Mr. Hussein we have to do this again with CNN present. So do you mind getting back in the hole? Here is a Mars bars and a can of Spam.

                                Saddam - Oh yes you americans are so nice and plesent. I am so glad you guy came I feel funny after eating some roots and grubs my army gave me.
                                WARNING: DO NOT LET DR. MARIO TOUCH YOUR GENITALS. HE IS NOT A REAL DOCTOR.

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