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  • Iraq and Afghanistan

    The more I read and watch about what happened in these conflicts the more I am impressed with USAs military might.

    What I mean by this is that it doesn't appear that we actually projected our actual force.

    We committed our A team (special forces and marines). Our USAF did primarily long range support and the Navy/Marines did the midrange air support.

    Army played a role but it was limited and a significant portion of it was the reserves.

    The reserves.

    The "weekend warriors" provided the bulk (pawns) of the force. The "butt" of our military might did much of the grunt work. (And I am not in any way demeaning those people. Simply pointing out the fact that in USA the reserves have always been portrayed as the weakest link in the popular media.)

    And yet with this (in my opinion) minimal commitment we did dominate two of the most dangerous areas in the world. I also think that these two places make American gun ownership, and willingness to use that power, look silly.

    Not that those in America would not want to use the power of the arms they do bear. It is that many in the USA with arms would not have the experience of using those arms. (Compare to those in that area of the world. Could be wrong but probably not. That area of the world is crazy compare to out experience.)

    Also consider that the places our forces where in had some support of the surrounding countries that we had to account for but could not deal with directly.

    All that considered we pretty much took over two very hostile areas with minimal (compared to what we could have projected if our country where actually endangered) force.

    I am a so called Liberal (aka pussy) and I still think the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. Afghanistan should have been the focus. But all of it was impressive.

    Imagine if we experienced an actual threat. Something the scale of what China could throw at us if they desired. If you considered the combined force of Navy and all of the Army (including those weekend warriors that where magnificent in the above conflicts) and the full force the Air Force...

    We really have nothing to fear with regard to any external force.
    Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
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  • #2
    Re: Iraq and Afghanistan

    As a veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan, I can tell you that our "Weekend Warriors" are truly the weak link in our armed forces. I'm not putting them down. I was once in the Army Reserves as a Basic Marksmanship Instructor. It isn't easy to balance 2 careers. However, while over seas I did notice that National Guard units took many more casualties than their active duty counter parts. There is a reason for this. They lack the dedicated training cycles that my active duty brethren have. Training a weekend a month and 2 weeks a year and then going to NTC or JRTC and being deployed is no sufficient enough for those guys. Especially when you consider that some of them have no other army experience (A bulk of the NG and AR used to be active duty, whether its a majority or more likely a minority, I do not know, I can only speculate.) and thus when they deploy they are not up to par. A majority of guard units I've seen deployed exhibited poor situational awareness, discipline and general appearance. Active Duty components train year round for deployments. Well, at least the Infantry does. We are in a constant state of training and refit and more training. When we aren't deployed we are preparing for field exercises, ranges and training lanes. I always tell my guys to learn as much as they can, because the day you need your training to come through shouldn't be the day you get by on luck alone.

    While I am not completely disagreeing with you, I am saying that the bulk was not provided by our reserves. The numbers of the different branches just doesn't support that claim.
    A quick google search shows us numbers from 2010.

    Total Personnel on Active Duty across all Branches: 1.4 Million
    Total Personnel on Reserve/National Guard Status across all branches 850 Thousand

    A Break Down by Force:

    Active Duty:
    Army - 541K
    Marines - 195K
    Navy - 317K
    Air Force - 333K
    Coast Guard - 42K

    Reserve/NG Status
    Army National Guard - 358K
    Army Reserve - 205K
    Marine Reserve - 39K
    Navy Reserve - 62K
    Air Force National Guard - 105K
    Air Force Reserves - 70K
    Coast Guard Reserves - 9K

    As you can see, the Active Duty component has the most personnel. WE provide the bulk of personnel for operations. I'm not putting down or belittling the achievements of my inactive brothers and sisters, but the facts must be known. Active Duty Components have superior training, equipment and numbers. Reserve components do not.
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    • #3
      Re: Iraq and Afghanistan

      I think what he was saying, Combaticus, isn't that reserves make up more of our military in general, but that reserves played a larger role in the fight in the Middle East thus far. Whether or not that is true, I don't know, but your response to what he said seemed to be in error. Maybe I read your post wrong, but it seemed to me like you thought he said that there were more reserves ENLISTED than there were Active Duty.

      Either way... I gag a little when I hear liberal or conservative. I'm a young man, but an old soul... and I wish day in and day out that my fellow Americans would just get their heads out of their asses and stop with this partisan garbage. I read a thread the other day that was about something Obama had done. The article itself was mostly in support of him... net neutrality, I think (which, awesome, let's do it). The comments under the article were pretty much what you'd expect. "Racism this", "Ignorant red neck that". It was crazy.

      One person said something along the lines of "Europe thinks we're a joke because of Obama."

      I was happy to read the response after this... something to the effect of:

      "We think you're a joke because of you. No one in your country takes your government seriously. Obama is the best thing that has happened to you in years, and you bash him. Bush was quite possibly the second worst leader since Hitler, and there are still people who support him. We respect America for what it once was, not what it is today."

      It's amazing to me that one voice can reach across the world on a little wire or a radio signal and speak a magnitude of truth that is so profound that it stings my American pride.

      We are idiots. That's the bottom line. We don't deserve the respect of the free world. Granted, we are the most powerful nation on Earth... and we've got this and that and happiness and freedom... but that freedom has been taken advantage of.

      Put into different terms, what we have allowed to happen is this:

      *knock, knock*
      "Hello?"
      "Hi, I've got lots of money. I'm going to sit on your couch."
      "Uhm, no. Get out of my house."
      "Here's lots of money. I'm on your couch now."
      "Well, okay. What do you want?"
      "To tell you what you what to do."
      "No, man. Get out of my house. Take your money back."
      "Here's a whole lot of money....."
      "Well...."
      "Now get me a sandwich."

      ^ this... is basically.. the country we live in. And it's sad to me.

      Don't get me wrong... my generation is mostly to blame. We're all complacent with our clubs and TV and easy access to food and water and fun times for everyone... omg let's get an Xbox One and waste the next 6 weeks of our lives!

      Blah blah, I'm rambling. There is a point. The point is that Iraq should have never happened. We "liberated" a country from a dictator in like 21 days in 2003. Since then, they have barely been able to put together a government. We have spent countless dollars trying to support that cause. And now, all the time and money and effort we have put into that desert is all being brought to fruition. And with that fruition, what do we see? Failure. ISIS/ISIL... an organization that rapes, pillages, and murders whoever they want are free to just roll right across the country... across the land that our brave soldiers fought and died for... and do what they please. The Iraqi military that we have "trained" and fostered can barely oppose them... AFTER 11 YEARS.

      Mesopotamia has been a devourer of men for thousands of years. It doesn't just eat civilizations... it chips away at them until they falter and break. We, the American people, have not only let our government be controlled by multi-billion dollar corporations and international interests, but we've allowed them to stick our right foot directly into the vacuum that is the Middle East. That place breeds violence and death and destruction and it has for almost as long as history has been written. It will never end. Since the day that the Bible was written and people began to follow it, that place is destined to destroy lives, regardless of how holy it is to people. We should not be there. We should never be there.

      Now, with all that said, I'm sure there are those that disagree. Osama Bin Laden needed to die. I'll give you that. But, take yourself back a second and let's look at the bigger picture. Why did 9/11 happen? Was Bin Laden really a genius, or was he just the right guy at the right time?

      I could go right now and join ISIS/ISIL... I could get some chemical weapon from them that the media and some of the military seem to believe they may have from their crusade across Iraq. I could bring that chemical weapon to Mexico. All of this, so far, is by sea..... (Iraq borders Syria and the ocean... both of these places can allow me access to Mexico by sea.) And then, I've got about a 4 to 6 in 10 chance of just WALKING ACROSS THE BORDER with a weapon of mass destruction. I don't need to run. I don't need to tunnel. I don't need a new identity or anything of the sort. I can simply get on a boat, and WALK MY HAPPY ASS across the border from Mexico to the United States. Now, why is this possible?

      There are only two reasons:

      1. Politics
      2. Money (or a lack thereof)

      So... why is politics an issue? Because politicians control the money. There isn't a lot of money, so they say "we cannot afford to build a wall across the Mexican border."

      Then we get to the root of the problem ACROSS THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. Why is there not a lot of money?....

      According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, in 2011, total world military expenditure amounted to 1.735 trillion US$.[1] <-- Military budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      $1.735 /TRILLION/. Put in perspective, that is enough money to give EVERY SINGLE PERSON that was known to be in this country as of last year roughly $6000.

      Again, don't get me wrong. We are the greatest nation on Earth because we make up a lot of this money. But that is a LOT of money. And it is a LOT of OUR money. Not the government, and not the military's. People seem to have forgotten that Americans CHOOSE to pay taxes. We are donating our money to be safeguarded against the hardships and strife that other countries not as fortunate have to deal with. We donate our money so that our government can operate in OUR INTEREST. Not in the interest of some billionaire or some oil exec or any other idiot who happens to have his lips in the ears of our leaders.

      Personally, I'm sick of the whole thing. Iraq and Afghanistan might have meant something to me a long time ago... when 9/11 was a real thing that happened to American people. But, ask yourselves an honest question and give yourselves an honest answer. Did going to Iraq lower our chances of another 9/11? Did going to Afghanistan lower our chances of another 9/11? Did we kill Bin Laden and end the danger, or did we create another 1,000 Bin Ladens and just make it worse? That place is a death trap, and until more of that $1.735 trillion comes back home to build walls and fight at our front door to keep the invaders out, we're screwed anyway.

      The vast majority of the Western world thinks we are fat, lazy morons. The vast majority of the Eastern world thinks we aren't up to snuff and that they are superior. Russia, a country who is still using Soviet Era equipment, is not in the least bit afraid to slap us in the face and then laugh when we hold our cheek and cry. ISIS cuts off the heads of our citizens and broadcasts it across the ENTIRE GLOBE with little to no fear of retribution.

      We have mastered the art of acting like we are awesome. We act like a bully in high school... in 2003, we INVADED A COUNTRY AND IN LESS THAN A MONTH WE WON. And since then, we've been trying to push around anyone who looks at us the wrong way... unless they are actually powerful (Russia) or they treat us like a friend (Israel).

      America ain't what it used to be, kids. Corruption, bipartisanship, warmongering, earmarks, outside interests, too much money in the government... We're falling apart and going the way of the Romans. Honestly, I'll be surprised if we're standing 50 years from now. I honestly struggle with deciding if I should leave this country with my children. Are they going to be better off 20 years from now in Canada or Switzerland.. or (god forbid) China? I mean, China basically makes everything on the planet. That's the only reason they have any money at all... is because we buy this useless plastic crap constantly like it's golden candy.

      We all think these things, right? We all see it happening around us. And then we go to TG and we play BF4 with our friends and we just ignore it because... we can't change it. We can't make a difference. Republicans are going to repeal Obamacare again and Obama is going to executive order something and blah blah blah blah blah. No. I'm sick of it. I am DONE being used, personally.

      When was the last time your government asked you if you wanted to invade a country or fight a terrorist cell? Do you remember being asked those questions in the last 15 years? I don't.

      I honestly think we are in a time where we lack leaders. The Civil Rights movement, for instance, was a change in law based on the voices of the many led by the voice of a few. We no longer have that few. The Martin Luther King's and Abraham Lincoln's have been replaced with 3D animation to enthrall the masses.

      I'm not screaming conspiracy. I'm not saying anything that the vast majority of us isn't already thinking on some level.

      We, the people, need to stand up and end this idiocy before it topples us. One thing that I can say that I know is 100% true... if the giant that is America ever falls down and dies, the vultures won't be long behind. You and your family and me and my family will be the ones who suffer in that time, not our leaders who have created this hatred of the every-day American. We are the ones who will be tortured and maimed because our name has been plastered across the planet in an effort to demonstrate our "superiority". Personally, I love my country... 50 years ago, we were superior to the vast majority of the planet. Today... I feel about as superior as a fly on a pile of ****. And it is because I love my country that this makes me sad to be an American. I hate to see how we have let her down.

      So, with all that said, I should point out... I sincerely appreciate the efforts of our Soldiers, both in reserve or in active duty. Anyone willing to put their life on the line to protect the livelihood of my children and my wife and I is worth their weight and more in gold. I don't want to take away your salary or make it any more difficult than it already is for you to get the respect you deserve while at home. But, I'd much rather have you home standing guard on the wall than I would have you in the Middle East creating even more hatred against you and us for a goal that never was real. Killing Bin Laden, invading Iraq and Afghanistan, fighting ISIS, etc etc etc... it's all an infinite loop that will never make the situation any better. It will only create more enemies and more hatred because we killed Bob with that missile, but we also killed Steve's 6 year old son... so now Bob is no longer a threat but Steve has created a new terror cell that wants to kill us all.

      Mom
      Last edited by YerMom; 11-12-2014, 12:12 AM.
      Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
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      • #4
        Re: Iraq and Afghanistan

        As a Viet Nam vet and 24 year career retiree I can tell you we were wrong going to that war, it all turned out the same as if we had never been there. We were wrong going to Iraq, we basically ruined the country and brought on a civil war between two religious factions . The British and the Russians were run out of Afghanistan with heavy losses of gold and blood and we didn't learn a thing from history. We have more than enough things wrong with our own country that need fixing and need our resources. We can not now afford to be the world's cop for we have pawned everything off to China. Welcome to Chimerica my friends

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Iraq and Afghanistan

          I've also noticed it seems like reserves are more active in the conflict overall in Iraq and Afghanistan than regular units. Or is this perhaps due to most of the media focus on reserve units?


          Off topic:

          [MENTION=34009]ChiefBoatsRet[/MENTION]

          I sort of resent this anti-Chinese attitude. Probably because my lineage comes from China, even if I was born here. It's a very global world and society, so this America for America attitude I feel needs to adapt, change, or just plain stop. There's so many discussion points starting with the phrase alone that could take up several very long threads (and probably has somewhere here in the Sandbox already).

          Originally posted by YerMom
          *knock, knock*
          "Hello?"
          "Hi, I've got lots of money. I'm going to sit on your couch."
          "Uhm, no. Get out of my house."
          "Here's lots of money. I'm on your couch now."
          "Well, okay. What do you want?"
          "To tell you what you what to do."
          "No, man. Get out of my house. Take your money back."
          "Here's a whole lot of money....."
          "Well...."
          "Now get me a sandwich."
          I'm fairly sure most of us here wouldn't fall for the lots of money part. I'd probably would have pegged the guy as a asshat and kicked him out. Failing that, call the cops. Failing that, physically toss him on his butt out of my property.

          See the somewhat popular protests against the 1%, etc. There's data to backup their arguments too, like here and here
          |TG-18th| Acreo Aeneas
          TG World of Tanks Clan Executive Officer
          Former 9th & 13th

          Pronounciation: Eh-Cree-Oh Ah-Nay-Ess
          Still can't say it? Call me Acorn then. -.-





          SSDs I Own: Kingston HyperX 3K (240 GB), Samsung 840 Pro (256 GB), Samsung 840 EVO (250 GB), Samsung 840 x 2 (120 GB), Plextor M5S (120 GB), OCZ Vertex (30 GB)

          TG Primer and Rules

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Iraq and Afghanistan

            We owe our soul to the company store, which happens to be China, the GOVERNMENT. It has nothing do with your linage so quit taking it personal.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Iraq and Afghanistan

              Chief, couldn't have said it better myself. Iraq and Afghanistan were a far stretch from being ok, or normal, or even close to modernizing. Now they have been set back. Their government is as greedy as ours. We've taken out criminals and war criminals and replaced them with criminals and war criminals. As for the whole China thing. You are spot on there. Acreo, bud, it wasn't directed towards Chinese people, it was directed more at the relationship between our governments. Of that I'm fairly sure. There wasn't anything anti-chinese about it man. What he is saying (and please correct me if I interpreted it wrong) is that America needs to take a step back from being World Police and start taking care of Americans again. I for one am tired of America playing global super hero. Especially when we just straight up cannot get our own country right. I mean seriously. I love my country, I am proud of my service to this wonderful nation, but I am not blinded by that. America is hurting and we need to chill out, build back up and start taking care of our own.
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Iraq and Afghanistan

                Let me get this out there right quick though. Active Duty deploys more. There cannot be an argument against this, I'll explain why shortly. Also if you are talking about combat involvement/influence you are talking about Active Duty. Again, I'll explain why.

                Ok, here we go. Typical active duty units (NOT "TRADOC" aka POGland) at the height of the wars had a cycle like this: 12 (15, or as many as 18) months deployed, 1 month (2 weeks for transit in and out of theatre, 2 weeks for actual down time) for R&R thrown in there somewhere starting as early as the 2nd month ending as late as the 10th month. They then enter a refit and retrain cycle, which would be 12 months, then receive orders again. I'm speaking from the Army side here, as that is what I am experienced with. Marines, Navy, Air Force and Coast guard do it different.

                Typical Reserve Units work like this. They fill the damn shortages as they are nearly 100% support oriented. They RARELY fill a combat role in a deployment. I'm not saying it does not happen. They usually fill admin positions that Active duty is short on. Sometimes only selected personnel from a Reserve Unit Deploy (I was in the reserves 20 months before continuing to AD, this **** happens, I saw it.) but not the entire unit. Their refit and retrain cycle is longer. Now, that is typical. Some units get deployed right next to AD units, as they fill a large role in their regular duty cycles.

                Nation Guard. Some states get deployed a lot, similarly to AD units. HOWEVER that is not all of them. Their numbers are much less.

                So enough on that. I'm not entirely sure what service affiliation you guys are rocking, if any. But if there is one thing I get touchy about (blood coming to a boil lol) is when civilians tell me that Reserves and NG played a bigger part than AD (Across All Branches) in the Wars in the Middle East.

                I guess my bottom line is, you are free to speculate, I provided my input, my pedigree. Take it for what you want. You don't like it, don't believe it. Not my problem right?

                Also, please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not attacking anyone, I just talk like a ******* sometimes. I forget some people are thin skinned, insecure, posses ovaries in their scrotum, or are just not used to talking with people rough around the edges. I prefer to assume the latter. Less hurt feelings and such that way.
                Last edited by Combaticus; 11-13-2014, 08:23 PM. Reason: forgot a very important bit about typical NOT being land of the men not man enough to combat arms.
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Re: Iraq and Afghanistan

                  Originally posted by YerMom View Post
                  I think what he was saying, Combaticus, isn't that reserves make up more of our military in general, but that reserves played a larger role in the fight in the Middle East thus far. Whether or not that is true, I don't know, but your response to what he said seemed to be in error. Maybe I read your post wrong, but it seemed to me like you thought he said that there were more reserves ENLISTED than there were Active Duty.

                  Either way... I gag a little when I hear liberal or conservative. I'm a young man, but an old soul... and I wish day in and day out that my fellow Americans would just get their heads out of their asses and stop with this partisan garbage. I read a thread the other day that was about something Obama had done. The article itself was mostly in support of him... net neutrality, I think (which, awesome, let's do it). The comments under the article were pretty much what you'd expect. "Racism this", "Ignorant red neck that". It was crazy.

                  One person said something along the lines of "Europe thinks we're a joke because of Obama."

                  I was happy to read the response after this... something to the effect of:

                  "We think you're a joke because of you. No one in your country takes your government seriously. Obama is the best thing that has happened to you in years, and you bash him. Bush was quite possibly the second worst leader since Hitler, and there are still people who support him. We respect America for what it once was, not what it is today."

                  It's amazing to me that one voice can reach across the world on a little wire or a radio signal and speak a magnitude of truth that is so profound that it stings my American pride.

                  We are idiots. That's the bottom line. We don't deserve the respect of the free world. Granted, we are the most powerful nation on Earth... and we've got this and that and happiness and freedom... but that freedom has been taken advantage of.

                  Put into different terms, what we have allowed to happen is this:

                  *knock, knock*
                  "Hello?"
                  "Hi, I've got lots of money. I'm going to sit on your couch."
                  "Uhm, no. Get out of my house."
                  "Here's lots of money. I'm on your couch now."
                  "Well, okay. What do you want?"
                  "To tell you what you what to do."
                  "No, man. Get out of my house. Take your money back."
                  "Here's a whole lot of money....."
                  "Well...."
                  "Now get me a sandwich."

                  ^ this... is basically.. the country we live in. And it's sad to me.

                  Don't get me wrong... my generation is mostly to blame. We're all complacent with our clubs and TV and easy access to food and water and fun times for everyone... omg let's get an Xbox One and waste the next 6 weeks of our lives!

                  Blah blah, I'm rambling. There is a point. The point is that Iraq should have never happened. We "liberated" a country from a dictator in like 21 days in 2003. Since then, they have barely been able to put together a government. We have spent countless dollars trying to support that cause. And now, all the time and money and effort we have put into that desert is all being brought to fruition. And with that fruition, what do we see? Failure. ISIS/ISIL... an organization that rapes, pillages, and murders whoever they want are free to just roll right across the country... across the land that our brave soldiers fought and died for... and do what they please. The Iraqi military that we have "trained" and fostered can barely oppose them... AFTER 11 YEARS.

                  Mesopotamia has been a devourer of men for thousands of years. It doesn't just eat civilizations... it chips away at them until they falter and break. We, the American people, have not only let our government be controlled by multi-billion dollar corporations and international interests, but we've allowed them to stick our right foot directly into the vacuum that is the Middle East. That place breeds violence and death and destruction and it has for almost as long as history has been written. It will never end. Since the day that the Bible was written and people began to follow it, that place is destined to destroy lives, regardless of how holy it is to people. We should not be there. We should never be there.

                  Now, with all that said, I'm sure there are those that disagree. Osama Bin Laden needed to die. I'll give you that. But, take yourself back a second and let's look at the bigger picture. Why did 9/11 happen? Was Bin Laden really a genius, or was he just the right guy at the right time?

                  I could go right now and join ISIS/ISIL... I could get some chemical weapon from them that the media and some of the military seem to believe they may have from their crusade across Iraq. I could bring that chemical weapon to Mexico. All of this, so far, is by sea..... (Iraq borders Syria and the ocean... both of these places can allow me access to Mexico by sea.) And then, I've got about a 4 to 6 in 10 chance of just WALKING ACROSS THE BORDER with a weapon of mass destruction. I don't need to run. I don't need to tunnel. I don't need a new identity or anything of the sort. I can simply get on a boat, and WALK MY HAPPY ASS across the border from Mexico to the United States. Now, why is this possible?

                  There are only two reasons:

                  1. Politics
                  2. Money (or a lack thereof)

                  So... why is politics an issue? Because politicians control the money. There isn't a lot of money, so they say "we cannot afford to build a wall across the Mexican border."

                  Then we get to the root of the problem ACROSS THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. Why is there not a lot of money?....

                  According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, in 2011, total world military expenditure amounted to 1.735 trillion US$.[1] <-- Military budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                  $1.735 /TRILLION/. Put in perspective, that is enough money to give EVERY SINGLE PERSON that was known to be in this country as of last year roughly $6000.

                  Again, don't get me wrong. We are the greatest nation on Earth because we make up a lot of this money. But that is a LOT of money. And it is a LOT of OUR money. Not the government, and not the military's. People seem to have forgotten that Americans CHOOSE to pay taxes. We are donating our money to be safeguarded against the hardships and strife that other countries not as fortunate have to deal with. We donate our money so that our government can operate in OUR INTEREST. Not in the interest of some billionaire or some oil exec or any other idiot who happens to have his lips in the ears of our leaders.

                  Personally, I'm sick of the whole thing. Iraq and Afghanistan might have meant something to me a long time ago... when 9/11 was a real thing that happened to American people. But, ask yourselves an honest question and give yourselves an honest answer. Did going to Iraq lower our chances of another 9/11? Did going to Afghanistan lower our chances of another 9/11? Did we kill Bin Laden and end the danger, or did we create another 1,000 Bin Ladens and just make it worse? That place is a death trap, and until more of that $1.735 trillion comes back home to build walls and fight at our front door to keep the invaders out, we're screwed anyway.

                  The vast majority of the Western world thinks we are fat, lazy morons. The vast majority of the Eastern world thinks we aren't up to snuff and that they are superior. Russia, a country who is still using Soviet Era equipment, is not in the least bit afraid to slap us in the face and then laugh when we hold our cheek and cry. ISIS cuts off the heads of our citizens and broadcasts it across the ENTIRE GLOBE with little to no fear of retribution.

                  We have mastered the art of acting like we are awesome. We act like a bully in high school... in 2003, we INVADED A COUNTRY AND IN LESS THAN A MONTH WE WON. And since then, we've been trying to push around anyone who looks at us the wrong way... unless they are actually powerful (Russia) or they treat us like a friend (Israel).

                  America ain't what it used to be, kids. Corruption, bipartisanship, warmongering, earmarks, outside interests, too much money in the government... We're falling apart and going the way of the Romans. Honestly, I'll be surprised if we're standing 50 years from now. I honestly struggle with deciding if I should leave this country with my children. Are they going to be better off 20 years from now in Canada or Switzerland.. or (god forbid) China? I mean, China basically makes everything on the planet. That's the only reason they have any money at all... is because we buy this useless plastic crap constantly like it's golden candy.

                  We all think these things, right? We all see it happening around us. And then we go to TG and we play BF4 with our friends and we just ignore it because... we can't change it. We can't make a difference. Republicans are going to repeal Obamacare again and Obama is going to executive order something and blah blah blah blah blah. No. I'm sick of it. I am DONE being used, personally.

                  When was the last time your government asked you if you wanted to invade a country or fight a terrorist cell? Do you remember being asked those questions in the last 15 years? I don't.

                  I honestly think we are in a time where we lack leaders. The Civil Rights movement, for instance, was a change in law based on the voices of the many led by the voice of a few. We no longer have that few. The Martin Luther King's and Abraham Lincoln's have been replaced with 3D animation to enthrall the masses.

                  I'm not screaming conspiracy. I'm not saying anything that the vast majority of us isn't already thinking on some level.

                  We, the people, need to stand up and end this idiocy before it topples us. One thing that I can say that I know is 100% true... if the giant that is America ever falls down and dies, the vultures won't be long behind. You and your family and me and my family will be the ones who suffer in that time, not our leaders who have created this hatred of the every-day American. We are the ones who will be tortured and maimed because our name has been plastered across the planet in an effort to demonstrate our "superiority". Personally, I love my country... 50 years ago, we were superior to the vast majority of the planet. Today... I feel about as superior as a fly on a pile of ****. And it is because I love my country that this makes me sad to be an American. I hate to see how we have let her down.

                  So, with all that said, I should point out... I sincerely appreciate the efforts of our Soldiers, both in reserve or in active duty. Anyone willing to put their life on the line to protect the livelihood of my children and my wife and I is worth their weight and more in gold. I don't want to take away your salary or make it any more difficult than it already is for you to get the respect you deserve while at home. But, I'd much rather have you home standing guard on the wall than I would have you in the Middle East creating even more hatred against you and us for a goal that never was real. Killing Bin Laden, invading Iraq and Afghanistan, fighting ISIS, etc etc etc... it's all an infinite loop that will never make the situation any better. It will only create more enemies and more hatred because we killed Bob with that missile, but we also killed Steve's 6 year old son... so now Bob is no longer a threat but Steve has created a new terror cell that wants to kill us all.

                  Mom
                  Well said!! I love my American brothers and sisters, But I really wish more folks in other countries including mine would open their eyes again. Too many of us believe what is seen on TV or heard on the radio. These people are paid by the companies they work for. It is the same as politicians they are all in a pocket of one kind or another.

                  The following is a part of a Presidential speech that is relevant to this thread.

                  Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

                  A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

                  Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

                  Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

                  This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

                  In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

                  We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

                  Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

                  In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

                  Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

                  The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present

                  and is gravely to be regarded.
                  Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite.

                  It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.


                  These companies run everything now. I have lived in the states for a few years and if you compare the news programs in the States to other parts of the world you quickly see that there is fear mongering going on every day. To keep the populace fearful and keep the profits flowing.

                  Hoping for Freedom to return to us. Todd
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Iraq and Afghanistan

                    Looks like we are staying in Afghanistan:

                    Exclusive: U.S. to leave more troops in Afghanistan than first planned - sources | Reuters

                    They're calling it Operation Resolute Support

                    ===

                    And I couldn't find the anti-chinese sentiment but American's really need to get some perspective on China before regurgitating falsehoods.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Iraq and Afghanistan

                      Originally posted by Toddshooter View Post
                      Well said!! I love my American brothers and sisters, But I really wish more folks in other countries including mine would open their eyes again. Too many of us believe what is seen on TV or heard on the radio. These people are paid by the companies they work for. It is the same as politicians they are all in a pocket of one kind or another.

                      The following is a part of a Presidential speech that is relevant to this thread.

                      Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

                      A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

                      Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

                      Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

                      This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

                      In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

                      We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

                      Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

                      In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

                      Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

                      The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present

                      and is gravely to be regarded.
                      Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite.

                      It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.


                      These companies run everything now. I have lived in the states for a few years and if you compare the news programs in the States to other parts of the world you quickly see that there is fear mongering going on every day. To keep the populace fearful and keep the profits flowing.

                      Hoping for Freedom to return to us. Todd
                      Great post Todd, repped.

                      We (well at least I) love our Canadian brothers as well. In fact I saw this the other day, I'm not sure how many of the general population of TG'ers frequent this board, but your post reminded me about it and I wanted to share it for any who hadn't seen it. I know there are a lot of Canucks around TG (for whatever reason)... But anyway, here goes...

                      "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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