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  • Immigration

    Don't just half ass it, actually read this:

    Voices: Our Immigration Journey Out of the Shadows - NBC News

    I'm a grown man, and I have to admit that I shed a tear or two sitting on the throne this morning when I read this.

    Right or wrong, the action the president has taken is not only saving lives, but it's fortifying families. Put yourselves in the shoes of the father mentioned in this story and ask yourself this:

    Would you still see the president the same way you do now? Would you still oppose immigration reform?

    Don't even start with liberal or conservative jargon. This was written by a woman who was part of the process. She has met the system from the foreign side. She cannot be called liberal or conservative, because she doesn't fall into that generalization.

    The dream. For hundreds of years, we've offered that dream to anyone and everyone across the planet. America is the most powerful nation on Earth because we are a melting pot. Jews alongside Germans, Africans alongside Europeans, even Chinese and Japanese people stand beside each other as members of this country. It's not always perfect, and there is still hatred and bigotry. But, I firmly believe that the action taken by the president is a step in the right direction for America.

    My father in law asked me the other day how we expect to feed all these immigrants we've just made legal. I can go on a tangent about how we spend umpteen billions on the middle east and blah blah... but that doesn't matter. The question doesn't even matter. The only question you have to ask yourself is this:

    Do you want them here paying taxes... or do you want them here not paying taxes?

    /ANYTHING/ you ever determine to tell someone no about will always be done. Saying "no, you cannot come here" only adds profit to the equation and amplifies the illegal immigration.

    Here's to creating and maintaining an easier process to take these people in as tax payers rather than squatters.

    Before you pass judgement on others coming here, remember that you yourself are an immigrant on stolen property. How twisted are we to blame them for seeking a better life when that's what created us in the first place?

    Mom
    Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
    Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

    You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
    Forever Perplexed

  • #2
    Re: Immigration

    Try immigrating illegally to another country and see how that goes for you. We have laws just like any other country on how people can come here to visit and work, because they have managed to not get caught does not mean they have not broken the law. No matter how long they have managed to evade the law, they need to get sent back to their own country and get in line to come here lawfully with no line jumping allowed. You are saying we should not tell anyone no, just open the gates and let r rip, anyone and everyone is free to come here. All I can say to that is I am glad you are not in charge of that. I have to admit that my generation started the downward spiral of this country in 1968 which has now turned into a full on flush. Dream on about us being the most powerful nation in the world, we are a façade, an empty shell of our former self. We are broke, we owe everyone in the world but they are afraid to collect because we have the biggest stick....For now.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Immigration

      Again.... I see it every single day.

      Another person ignoring the only question that matters.

      Do you want them here paying taxes... or do you want them here not paying taxes?

      They're going to jump that fence one way or another. They're going to find a way to get in. Have you ever tried to keep ants out of your kitchen when a colony discovers the value of said kitchen? It's almost impossible without chemical warfare.. and we obviously can't just tank the border.

      I'd much rather say, "here you go, now pay taxes" than say "no, you can't come here" and have 11 million of them not paying taxes. I don't need to immigrate to another country becuase I'm a working class American. I have MUCH more stability in my life than a solid 60% of the planet. I'm lucky. They are not.

      You say they evaded they law. I agree with you there. But it should stand as a point of reference in this conversation and any other that 11 million people are evading the law today. And that number is rough. What Obama has said is, essentially, this:

      We're not going to catch them all. Let's help the most vulnerable of them and focus our reaction on those who are dangerous criminals.

      I live in Tucson, AZ. I see illegals every day. It's a way of life. A solid 70% of them, if I had to guess, are just like you and I. They want to feed a family and live in peace. I'm more than happy to have them here, although I think we should enforce that they learn english... but, yeah. Come to our country. Get a job, pay taxes, PUT BACK INTO THE SYSTEM. MUCH MUCH happier with that solution for these people than them not paying taxes.

      Besides, what do you think makes a country great?

      There are two main things that have made this country great for a long time:

      1 - culture
      2 - money

      Culture is only powerful when it is a combination of cultures.
      Money is only powerful when there's a lot of it.

      All of the Mexicans I know work about 1000 times harder than I ever have or will at anything.. and the same is said for all the white people I know, and I'd imagine for all the people in this forum. So, let them work hard and pay taxes and give back some of that power. The more the merrier if they're paying taxes, because that all just feeds back into the American machine.

      Then you have stories like this. I can only imagine putting my 4 year old son through something like this. It horrifies me. I tend to think of myself as outside the political generalization in most cases. I'm not liberal or conservative. I'm intelligent enough to know that 2 + 2 = 4, unlike a lot of my fellow Americans when it comes to politics. And I shudder to think that the vast majority of people in the US would have my son and I go through this before they'd offer me an easy path of access to salvation that lies only a few days north. I have the American dream. My son will grow up in good schools and get a decent education and have a chance to have what I have and more. This man fought an unfair system and won to give his daughter the same dream that you and I take for granted every day. And he won. And now look at her. Her story is published on a massive, mainstream media website for all of us to read. This is success, and it is the American dream. And we offered it to hardworking and dedicated GOOD people for generations. It's sad that today we see fit to dictate what that means when we barely even understand it ourselves.

      I also agree that America is a former shell of itself, but I think it is for reasons like this that that is true. If I wagered a guess, I'd say that you're probably either English or Irish yourself, maybe German... that is assuming you're even white. You yourself are not an American. I'm not an American. Technically, none of us are except Native Americans. This is a melting pot that has been overflowing for hundreds of years... and only now are we trying to stymie the flow. I say let them come. Maybe they can contribute to rebuilding the great nation we once had... and then it will become theirs, too. Because... lord knows you and I are hardly doing anything to make it better. We all talk a big game, but I don't see any of you guys standing on the lawn of the white house speaking to masses about the corruption that is killing our country.

      Mom
      Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
      Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

      You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
      Forever Perplexed

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Immigration

        They have a right to be here when they do it by the laws already in place, undocumented is a nice cozy word used to cover law breakers. I will now leave this conversation, walls of text will not change either of our well entrenched beliefs.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Immigration

          That's part of the problem, though, isn't it? Two grown men with varying views on immigration being completely unable to have a conversation about the issue without either getting mad or leaving?

          Don't get me wrong.. I see your side of the issue. I firmly believe that they should become citizens the right way. And I don't really feel like the law is the problem. I feel like what we are trying to do is the problem. I'm in Tucson, as I said... I see people getting arrested by border patrol all the time. I see watering stations for immigrants in the desert while I hunt for deer. I see illegals in my binoculars when I glass for pigs. It happens... Then I watch nat geo and see these people being picked up on the street, thrown in a truck, and deported.

          Why? Why not give them a month or so... give them the chance to study the laws and the process and then let them try to become legal. Why do we just throw them out instead of give them the opportunity to succeed when we find them? They're going to try to come back, and a lot of them will make it and just be illegal again.

          It goes back to the same point every single time. No matter how you see it... the question is the same, and you have to answer it for yourself.

          Do you want them here paying taxes... or do you want them here not paying taxes?

          We should be setting people up to succeed not setting them up to fail. We're spending plenty of money on them while they're illegal... why not spend some to help them become legal?

          Mom
          Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
          Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

          You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
          Forever Perplexed

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Immigration

            I have still yet to see the logistics of how this new plan will work.

            Tbh I think it's all just a smoke screen.
            doYouEvenLuftwaffe

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Immigration

              I'm with Cougar. Its politics as usual until I see something accomplished.

              Comment

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