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  • I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

    I just got home from a phone bank event supporting Bernie Sanders. We were calling into New York to get the vote out in tomorrow's Democratic primary.

    I have never sent any money in to any political candidate, ever, prior to Bernie. Much less volunteered for any campaign.

    As a matter of fact, I have been a registered Republican my entire life (and still am, actually).

    It feels great. :)
    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw




  • #2
    Re: I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

    Mom's a republican, Dad's a democrat, I turned out to be a moderate who is always arguing.

    Most of my evenings have been arguing with mom and my grandma on her side on why pretty much every GOP candidate this race is not a good choice for this country. It's gotten messy.

    Whats the news on the New York Primaries anyway? I was reading on the scandal of votes being dropped out and shuts for certain districts.
    |TG-6th|SirNerd

    My Resume includes Pirate, Mercenary, and a Devil Dog, what else do you want.

    Pain is Inevitable, Suffering is Optional.

    When you can't run anymore, you crawl and when you can't do that, you find someone to carry you.

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    • #3
      Re: I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

      I voted for Comrade [MENTION=109039]Noyava[/MENTION], who will make U.S.S.A Great again, like Bear.

      Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

      "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

      Friend of |TG| Chief

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      • #4
        Re: I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

        Until Congress has term limits, money is taken out of politics and the delegates are a thing of the past I don't ever see much of anything important changing for the better. Bernie is however the only decent choice IMO. Hillary is the biggest liar and cheat ever, and Trump is just crazy dangerous. I am going to get a 2016 (We are all screwed!) bumper sticker.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

          Originally posted by Sir-Nerd View Post
          Whats the news on the New York Primaries anyway? I was reading on the scandal of votes being dropped out and shuts for certain districts.
          Allow me to correct your misconception. Democracy is not something we actually believe in any more, it's just what we tell the boys before wrapping them up in the American flag and shipping them off to the never-ending wars in Eastasia and Oceana.
          Last edited by Randy_Shughart_ClwFL; 04-21-2016, 06:19 PM.
          "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

            Saw this pretty late. Wanted to discuss our current political landscape a little and felt that this thread kind of covers it already. So if you don't mind I'll try and commandeer it.

            So I'm a progressive guy (now; its a long story that began me as a conservative) and before the primaries I was assured to vote for Hillary Clinton as the DNC wasn't pushing anyone else. Then Bernie and Martin O'Malley showed up. I watched a few of the debates before the primary and I was pretty pleased with our pick; all seemed to be great choices.

            As time went on that hasn't changed. I like O'Malley still and BS and HRC both seem pretty solid candidates against what is now looking to be a Donald Trump GOP nomination that at worst would be a hilarious side-show for four years setting up a Blue Sweep of the House in the all important 2020 election (i.e. the election to get rights to Gerrymander!). In PA I voted BS and briefly attended a rally of his at my Campus, but I still strongly feel that HRC is a more center of the road candidate that could please more people with her nuanced approach to politics.

            And that brings me to my biggest contention of this year of the outsider. This year of unrest and upset.

            My fiance and I have gotten in some pretty heated arguments because of her avid distaste for HRC. She'll vote her in over Trump and for the SCOTUS but her opinions are a great example of the polarization I think people feel with 'established' politics.

            Bernie and Trump represent voter disenfranchisement from the two respective camps. They are fighting for their independent corners (let me try and not come off biased) of Social vrs Market forces, but both have an agreed message: "IT SUCKS!"*.
            *Whether or not you agree why it sucks is a different story. (If its Trump 2016 you think it sucks because we've not closed our borders yet. If its Bernie or Bust its because you think any and all money in politics is evil without nuance.

            This scares me.

            Yes politics suck and yes the vested establishment system is anti-democratic and more plutocratic, but we've gotten to the point where it can not change overnight. Democratic movements aren't like that - they burn slowly with measured purpose; populous movements are quick and sudden violent affairs pushed more by Cult of Personality, than I'd argue, reason.

            I'm not saying either candidate is the above. No far from it: Trump is now the established GOP nominee while Bernie has made it clear that he wants to work to change the DNC to become more progressive if he loses nomination. He's been open from the beginning that he's run is more a movement than just a bid.

            No. I'm saying that it is the disenfranchised voters that scare me.

            People want a revolution - that much is obvious - but do we want something peaceable or "AT ALL COSTS"?

            =====

            With most people here probably offended; I'd like to ask those that remained and are on the Bluer side of the fence: "Why is HRC so detestable?"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

              It is a relationship, for better or worse. HRC is an ex girlfriend that has cheated on us, lied to us, and belittled our intelligence. Now we may half to be married to her for 4 to 8 years. I hope when it is all said and done she doesn't take half in the divorce and throw us all out on the street for her rich boyfriends. Trump OMG, we will be so screwed. Bernie is the wise, crazy uncle that may be flawed but his heart is in the right place. I love your tact for words [MENTION=37421]Ytman[/MENTION], always well said and I enjoy reading your posts. But ya, I am disenfranchised, angry and sick of it. Just my two cents.

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              • #8
                Re: I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

                Originally posted by Shane View Post
                But ya, I am disenfranchised, angry and sick of it. Just my two cents.
                You are not the only one, Shane. Our once great nation has become a pyramid scheme, and most of us are on the bottom. People are starting to wake up (a little) which is why you see the popularity of the two "non-establishment" candidates.

                I agree with your girl YT, if Bernie doesn't run as an independent, I'm voting for Trump. Never Hillary. She is a Chicken Hawk Republican who calls herself a Democrat, and she is completely bought and paid for by Wall Street and other large money interests. People like her are everything that is wrong in Washington today. Voting for her will insure 4 more years of out of control 3 letter Federal agencies, massive invasions of citizen's privacy, war, drone strikes, violating other nations' sovereignty, terrible "trade" deals, and other favors for the rich and politically connected few, at the expense of all the rest of us.

                We know what Bernie stands for, and we know what Hillary stands for. We don't really know what Trump stands for. But if Hillary is the only alternative at that point, I'm willing to take that chance. I know a lot of other people also feel the same way.

                I'll go one further. Because of the sale of my business and some other things, I have the luxury of not having to work right now (for a little while, at least). So I spend almost all day, every day, studying topics of interest. But I have been studying the economic situation for a while now (the last few years). And I have always been a student of history and economics anyway. But especially the last several years, something just hasn't seemed quite right. A couple years ago, I would talk to people I know in all walks of life and socio economic strata, and many of them just weren't doing all that well (financially). So I've been reading a lot into why that is, how and why the financial markets collapsed, and all these other issues that seem so pressing today. And what I learned was quite shocking.

                In the last 30 years, productivity, corporate profits, and CEO compensation have all syrocketed, while median wages have practically stagnated. We are very near the top (first maybe?) in what we pay per capita for health care, and yet we are in the 20s or 30s (depending on what metric) in results. We rank among the highest in income inequality amongst all developed/OECD nations, by that metric and several others.

                Well, what exactly does that term "income inequality" that you hear bandied about in the media so often, actually mean? Let me give you some numbers: Median income is something like $24K per year, and making $60K actually puts you in the top 10% of wage earners in the U.S. today. And all of this in the greatest economy ever in the history of the world. How is our so called great economy working out FOR YOU right now? Be honest, just ask yourself quietly, you don't even need to post here.

                And why is that? Well, after much digging, and deep soul searching, I am starting to believe that where we are today is the natural result of unfettered capitalism (a/k/a "neo-liberal" or "trickle down" or "supply side" economic policy or whatever you want to call it). Now, keep in mind that I am a life long registered Republican, and was a business owner for 20 years. But I have come to believe the facts bear this out. Most recently, I actually went ahead and read some of the forbidden texts (Marx) *GASP!* and I fail to see where any rational, objective person cannot admit that Marx makes some very salient (and now, timely) criticisms of capitalism itself.

                Now I expect to get a lot of heat for that last statement (especially around here) but that's alright. Bring it on. But you better have some facts and/or have at least put at some amount of thought into it before you just react instinctively and angrily, the way most low information Republican voters do every time Faux "News" blows the dog whistle.

                And I haven't even touched yet on how we are selectively enforcing the law. The rich and powerful never really get in trouble for anything any more. Put the entire country (and almost, the world's) economy in the toilet, and no one gets in trouble for anything (in fact, you get bailed out by OUR tax dollars). Download some movies though, and you're getting fined potentially ridiculous amounts of money (and/or, jail). The government is now the enforcement arm of a private industry's outmoded business model. And once we don't have rule of law any more, well, what's the point of government at all at that point?

                We have a higher percentage of our population in jail than any other country on the planet. We spend more than the next 20 countries in the world COMBINED on national defense. The NSA gets $10M a year, to spy ON US, and they just build a huge new facility out in Utah or wherever to store every phone call, text message, email you send to anyone, FOREVER. The black budget for all these "intelligence" agencies is purported to be some $52.6 BILLION dollars per year, and for what? We are living in a modern day surveillance panopticon. We are no longer free. I am afraid.

                Nowadays I just feel like I'm ready to fight with people for half the movie, in order for them (you?) to just put the glasses on, so you can see what I have seen.

                Well I could go on and on. Put it all together though, and it paints a very scary picture, at least from where I am sitting.
                Last edited by Randy_Shughart_ClwFL; 05-14-2016, 09:34 PM.
                "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

                  It really boils down to, do you trust Trump with your nuclear arsenal when he repeatedly made suggestions that he was willing to use them. When he makes childish comments like "I am going to build a great wall", when the reality is Mexicans aren't even coming to the states anymore. Or just stick with the status quo of wall street funded politicians. The choice(from an outsiders perspective who dsn't want to see the world destroyed as we know it), is pretty clear. The republican candidates this year are really all of them a joke. Seriously dumb people that makes you wonder if these people are frontrunners in the republican party, what has happened to that party. In my mind its their own fault after years and years of BS of not taking science and research serious but saying outrageously dumb things like "climate change is a hoax" but when asked why they say "but i'm not a scientist".

                  Now going to Bernie, he is the only logical choice if you actually try to understand what he is about. Socialism does not equate to the USSR as so many Americans would like to believe. Nor is socialism the reason for example that Venezuela is so screwed right now. Every western industrialized nation is a quasi socialist state(its called progress, more money you make more money you can invest in your people/country).

                  America needs to get it together when it comes to the financing of politicians. In most western countries the time for campaigning and party funding is very regulated. This to ensure a more transparent process and insight on who is funding your politician and why. So they can't tell you "I am pro choice" while at the same time accepting a huge donation from the "anti choice" movement. Public office funding should be just that, funding for public office and not a way for people to buy your opinion with money(Hillary).

                  Originally posted by Randy_Shughart_ClwFL View Post

                  And why is that? Well, after much digging, and deep soul searching, I am starting to believe that where we are today is the natural result of unfettered capitalism (a/k/a "neo-liberal" or "trickle down" or "supply side" economic policy or whatever you want to call it). Now, keep in mind that I am a life long registered Republican, and was a business owner for 20 years. But I have come to believe the facts bear this out. Most recently, I actually went ahead and read some of the forbidden texts (Marx) *GASP!* and I fail to see where any rational, objective person cannot admit that Marx makes some very salient (and now, timely) criticisms of capitalism itself.
                  Well from a person who has studied political theory, I can tell you that Marx was one of the greatest political theorists. His theories are first reads in any serious political program in universities all over Europe. Not because his theory is agreed upon as being better(hint: its not), but because he makes incredibly logical and thoughtful points about capitalism.

                  "the dynamic of capital would eventually impoverish the working class and thereby create the social conditions for a revolution. Private ownership over the means of production and distribution is seen as creating a dependence of non-owning classes on the ruling class, and ultimately as a source of restriction of human freedom."

                  Theories like this above is why in most western nations, companies and institutions that are vital to the state(healthcare, infrastructure, sometimes even airports) are fully or more likely partly owned by the government.
                  Last edited by Kwalc; 05-15-2016, 08:22 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

                    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Randy_Shughart_ClwFL again.
                    We will probably disagree on at least one core issue but we have more than enough similarities in opinion and view. I'm Never Trump but I can understand your frustration with Hilary and the fact that she's an establishment candidate in a time of dislike of the establishment. What I am not for is that Trump to me is at least one of the following if not both:

                    1) an Autocratic businessman who is going to take the Market's side in the case of our socio-economic struggles.

                    2) an effectual Blank Slate to which a Conservative Agenda will be placed upon. Something very dangerous in the following years of SCOTUS appointments, and international and domestic upheaval (both politically and economically). Effectively Google Chrome: an Outsider 'front end' with an establishment 'back end' that is inherently unpopular and thus hidden away.

                    To me all of your points sing out to me. Income is disproportionately divided to those with capital over those whose only marketable asset is 'labor' (both hard-labor and skilled). This is an unhealthy form of capitalism that leads to small pockets of the population being very well off and large portions vying for a constantly shrinking small piece of the pie. As wealth is accrued at disproportionate rates the wealthy can continually stock-pile their capital, therefore ensuring a constant stream of opportunity in the market and purchase power. We see exponential rise in wealth disparity between working class and upper class to the point where the power over society wielded by these different groups of individuals is too grossly disproportionate.

                    To me this is the story of Donald Trump and indicative of the paradox of his 'outsider bid' and appeal. He's a platinum spoon inheritor; sure he worked to where he was but give me an inheritance of $40 to $200 million dollars of assets/investments in 1974 and I'd have built an empire too with a little bit of elbow grease. (adjusted to value for today and I'd be getting $190 to $960 million) He and his ilk have been THRIVING off of our imbalanced economic system for decades, he's not an outsider, just a convenient pop-culture pivot with an ego built for today's digital age.

                    All these people are screaming: "the system is corrupt! our politicians are bought and paid for by billionaires!"

                    So, paradoxically, we'll elect a guy who was basically inside that very system but hidden away from view in the private sector? Baffling. Sure the political system is rigged, but its rigged because our socio-economic system is the one rigging it!

                    That's the special thing about democracy is that on some level the citizens shape it. Now, the way I see our democracy today is very much akin to the years leading up to and encompassing the gilded age of the 1920s. If you want to read up on it I'd suggest to check out the era of corporate monopoly, Standard Oil, and Theodore Roosevelt's Progressive-Republican politics. (my favorite part is the fact that the RNC was trying to appease the Roosevelt supporter by making him the VP to Taft, effectually neutering his policy agenda, but ended up supplanting him as president when Taft was assassinated) The gist I'm getting, however, is that today in America the dollar is king and the market is a benevolent deity that gives us plentiful bounty when we worship it's prophets (i.e. Supply-side businessmen like Trump). For me, as a secular progressive, I see that as completely ass backwards.

                    The only party that even REMOTELY sees otherwise is the democratic party. However, the democratic party fell out of favor during the 70s and until really today. So our system, in order to have two relevant parties in our two party system (which is archaic and imperfect but constitutional law), saw a massive purging of the progressive democratic movement and adopted a more centrist-right leaning stance. This translated to everything from global economics (trade policies), to hawkish foreign policies, to a 'TOUGH ON CRIME' stance, and so-on.

                    Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I'm talking about Bill Clinton's tenure and the legacy-democratic party that is home to center left democrats like Al Gore, Obama, and Hillary Clinton. Mind you that in 2001 we were a few hundred votes (or the ruling of 5 conservative judges) from that Center-Left movement of Al Gore the Center-Right movement of Bush Jr. A war on terror (oh its still on going? surprising⸮) and a catastrophic recession later and lo and behold what was once a conservative leaning nation is now turn face heeling into a liberal force to be reckoned with (nationally mind you, while state by state we are a mish-mash of hard conservativism and moderate liberalism).

                    So is it shocking that the status quo historically neo-liberal (centerish-leftish) candidate is struggling? Not at all. She's been run through the ringer and smear campaigns since 1992 and a lot of her positions that were popular until 2008 are now seen as old-fashioned, hawkish, and status-quo(ie). What is shocking is the pace at which the nation has developed progressive reform. Literally, until halfway through Obama's tenure we were still living as if it was the 1970's conservative paradise we are told once existed. Then in 2012, after a bit of astroturfing Tea Party 'conservative knee-jerking', we've rubber banded as a population back to a liberal leaning agenda. But after all that tension and wear and tear of 40 odd years that rubber band broke.

                    Now we are seeing the culmination of so many individual social and economic failings amass into an ire of adamant anti-establishment and borderline anarchistic wishing. "Burn the system down!"

                    I warn that now is not the time to burn the system down in a giant conflagration of political distrust. I argue now that the only candidate that is truly anti-establishment is Bernie Sanders. And I plead with everyone upset that Bernie Sanders will likely not get the nomination to not take that alluringly profane showman of a candidate at face value. He's a businessman, he's just as much an insider - if not more - as Hillary, but worse he never once worked for the public interest in mind.

                    I still feel, despite all of my differences with Hillary, despite all of the indication and risk that her election could be 'more of the same', that her presidency would be a win for liberalism in America and a step in the right direction for a reinvigorated push to but the Progress back in the Democrats. I agree more with Hillary than with any Republican. I feel that she is not the candidate that we need but the one we deserve in so much that for the last forty odd years we've been okay with steering our ship towards a fictitious Market Paradise away from our own self interests and health of the greater social well being.

                    To make an analogy: just as much as I believe in climate change and want a Zero Carbon economy I absolutely know that we can not over night change into that. That even four years or twelve years later it is impossible. Sure, we want it NOW! But the candidate best able to do it will most likely not be on the ticket. Instead, and due to that archaic two party system, we only have to hope for a strong progressive movement to arise within the Democratic party. A vote for Trump is surely a hidden ballot for the same conservative agenda of the last forty years.

                    I am actually beginning to fear that Trump is potentially our next President.
                    Last edited by Ytman; 05-15-2016, 01:45 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

                      This is going to be [MENTION=36076]Kwalc[/MENTION] and [MENTION=37421]Ytman[/MENTION] both, and in general, although I'm not going to go through the tedium of parsing specific lines of text.

                      As far as Trump being a crazy, I think it's all show. I think he is good at "talking s__t", for lack of a better term. He is not a dumb nor crazy guy -- quite the contrary, it's all a "put on" media personality, and it is successful. I think YT is correctl wheen he points out, it's a tailor made persona for our low attention span Twitterculture. He speaks at a sixth grade level, not because he is uneducated (quite the contrary) but rather because that is what is shown to be most effective. He is a very persuasive speaker. I think the creator of Dilbert is spot on (incidentally - be sure to note the dates of his prognostications)! So, his technical ability to persuade people is very good. But where does he stand on the issues (I mean, in actuality, not when shooting off at the mouth)? We don't have the voting (and other) records to go on like we do for Bernie and Hillary.

                      YT, I am not sure I am buying the wolf in sheep's clothing trope, although your theory #2 as regards Trump may have something to it. At any rate, I did find your Google Chrome analogy hilarious. :D I think (hope?) Trump is more of a centrist. In fact he was a Hillary supporter just a few years ago. Some have called him a "New York liberal." His own party are besides themselves precisely because they don't know what to do with him / can't control him, and they are worried that he is a RINO! In fact, if there will be any good to this, it will be the collapse of the Republican party under the weight of the far right, super rich, and crazy elements. I think that there are a lot of (former) Republicans out there, like myself, who would like to see us return to being "the party of Lincoln." At minimum, I can say that I am very much enjoying the implosion of the punditry at the ascent of Trump! :D So, going back to Trump then. Your point that he is "one of them" is well taken. I suppose I stand my my initial position that "we don't really know what he stands for" although I admit you may very well be right, as he certainly was born with a silver spoon in his hand. Or maybe he really is a dirty, greedy capitalist, and I have also just been taken in by his large personality and orange skin tone. To be honest, I (deliberately) did not pay very much attention to the media circus that was the Republican primary. So, I suppose that I will start paying a little closer attention now, and focus my research efforts on Trump. As I said, I already know what Hillary and Bernie are all about.

                      Which incidentally YT, I would like to take a moment and dispell this myth we seem to have about "working hard." Rich people DO NOT "work hard." That guy that digs ditches for $10 per hour, he is actually WORKING HARD. Capitalists become rich by taking control of certain assets and/or sectors of the economy which are inherently more profitable, and/or by exploiting the actual hard work of other people, and then not sharing with them in the fair proceeds of the value of their labor. Marx and others commentary are now called political economy [which] originated in moral philosophy. It was developed in the 18th century as the study of the economies of states, or polities, hence the term political economy. Anyway, WORKING HARD is just the meme they like to spread to all of us regular folk, in order to keep us WORKING HARD for the masters. So please don't continue to promote (via usage) their propaganda terms.

                      I think if more Americans actually read some Marx (as the Europeans do) it would greatly influence our society for the better. I agree with Kwalc that he makes a lot of really good points. You don't have to go so far as reading source material, Widipedia articles give a pretty good summary. Well, enough such that you can see and immediately sense the truth in what he is saying.

                      Going back to Trump again, I heard something yesterday on the radio about the current 8 member Supreme Court basically punting on an issue, in order to hear it at some later date, and it seems that we will be waiting until the next President to appoint the next Supreme Court Justice. This fact alone may make me vote for Hillary, as now that right wing nut job Scalia is dead and in the ground, we have a chance at a more balanced Court. The next appointee will have a much more dramatic and long term affect on the future of our country than any individual choice of President (which honestly, do not have all that much real power anyway). Remember, it was the Supreme Court who allowed this ridiculous stance that "a corporation is a person" through the Citizen's United case, the repercussions of which are still being felt far and wide...

                      So now I'm back to "I just don't know, man." It reminds me of a something my mom used to say, a choice between "the evil of two lessers." I suppose I'll just have to keep thinking about it as the campaigns roll on...

                      It seems I agree with you guys on many points, although I must respectfully disagree on the whole climate change thing. I have looked into that too a little (although, admittedly, not as much as the political / economic situation), and it seems that there are scientists on both sides of the issue, which in itself is an indictment of just how bad our political situation has become, that now you can't even trust "scientists" at face value (whatever happened to intellectual honesty?)! Sure there is climate change over the last few decades, I just don't know that the data supports that it is man made. We have only been monitoring weather for what, a couple hundred years or so? Who is to say that this recent rise in temps is just not a natural cycle over some much longer time period? I really don't know, but I think that spending some trillions of dollars on carbon taxes or whatever is a ridiculous solution and is just a straight up governmental money grab, and I think stuff like this is where the Democrats lose credibility. Instead of spreading FUD about "terrorism", "pedophiles", and "protecting the children" in order to pass more laws, invade our privacy, and increase government spending, the Dems instead spread FUD about global warming in order to do the exact same things. Totalitarians and the power hungry come in all stripes.

                      Another minor quibble, YT, I think you mentioned that our 2 party system is constitutional law and I do not believe that to be the case at all. In fact, I'm pretty sure the two main parties are private non-governmental agencies. Which just further highlights just how ridiculous this whole 2 party sham really is. I think I might like the European model more, where several different political parties all have to vie and form alliances to get things done. I think it might be much harder to circumvent the will of the people that way, but I'm no expert in that. At minimum, perhaps it would get more people involved in the process (i.e., voting, and paying attention) which would be better than what we have now. I think the vast majority of people here in the U.S. feel exactly as Shane stated, disenfranchised and angry, and then they don't vote, or participate, or even so much as discuss politics - which only allows all the worst sorts to just keep getting away with "business as usual..."
                      Last edited by Randy_Shughart_ClwFL; 05-17-2016, 04:58 PM.
                      "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

                        Originally posted by Randy_Shughart_ClwFL View Post
                        Another minor quibble, YT, I think you mentioned that our 2 party system is constitutional law and I do not believe that to be the case at all. In fact, I'm pretty sure the two main parties are private non-governmental agencies. Which just further highlights just how ridiculous this whole 2 party sham really is. I think I might like the European model more, where several different political parties all have to vie and form alliances to get things done. I think it might be much harder to circumvent the will of the people that way, but I'm no expert in that. At minimum, perhaps it would get more people involved in the process (i.e., voting, and paying attention) which would be better than what we have now. I think the vast majority of people here in the U.S. feel exactly as Shane stated, disenfranchised and angry, and then they don't vote, or participate, or even so much as discuss politics - which only allows all the worst sorts to just keep getting away with "business as usual..."
                        Not to gloss over the above, but I largely agree and cannot contribute anything more productive. And I've learn long ago to not discus climate change as it deals with my profession directly. However, the Two-Party system IS a feature of our constitution. Its not that they are private or not, or can change or not, its that the actual constitution is structured to support only Majorities and Super Majorities. We can literally have no plurality government. Take this election for example, if the votes were split 39% to 20% to 41% between Trump HRC and BS guess who decides who our president is?

                        The House of Representatives. And they get to vote anyone they want iirc. Paul Ryan President 2016!!!

                        Our system inherently is built upon two parties holding an overwhelming majority of power. At best the only immediate hope for parliamentary procedure is for one of those two parties to adopt it internally; so day the Dems break up into sub-categories Labor, Greenies, Progressives, and Neo-Libs. But that has its own problems because, as we see today with the BS supporters yelling BUST!!!, any segment is free to just walk away and weaken the party as a whole. This all unofficially happened with the Regan dixiecrat.

                        I've all but lost hope visiting the BS subreddit. I'm pretty much given up, and as a political enthusiast I'm more and more weary fighting against people I should be agreeing with. (no one here but rather over there) Trump will win and the American population deserves a blowhard populist as President.

                        I'm moving to Canada.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

                          Originally posted by Randy_Shughart_ClwFL View Post
                          This is going to be [MENTION=36076]Kwalc[/MENTION] and [MENTION=37421]Ytman[/MENTION]
                          It seems I agree with you guys on many points, although I must respectfully disagree on the whole climate change thing. I have looked into that too a little (although, admittedly, not as much as the political / economic situation), and it seems that there are scientists on both sides of the issue, which in itself is an indictment of just how bad our political situation has become, that now you can't even trust "scientists" at face value (whatever happened to intellectual honesty?)! Sure there is climate change over the last few decades, I just don't know that the data supports that it is man made. We have only been monitoring weather for what, a couple hundred years or so? Who is to say that this recent rise in temps is just not a natural cycle over some much longer time period? I really don't know, but I think that spending some trillions of dollars on carbon taxes or whatever is a ridiculous solution and is just a straight up governmental money grab, and I think stuff like this is where the Democrats lose credibility. Instead of spreading FUD about "terrorism", "pedophiles", and "protecting the children" in order to pass more laws, invade our privacy, and increase government spending, the Dems instead spread FUD about global warming in order to do the exact same things. Totalitarians and the power hungry come in all stripes.
                          Just like yt, I agree with you on most things. Funnily enough, our family owns a construction company and a year ago I made a host of changes to offer various sustainable options. People love it. I refer you to NASA for the explanation, as they can give you far more depth and scientific analysis than I ever could. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

                          There is a lot of stuff there because climate change is based on a host of evidence all pointing in one direction. EVEN IF humans arent the cause, there is no doubt that our world is changing and given that we havn't figured out how to move to another planet yet, we have to try to turn the tide. This is very important to understand that whether its our fault or not, we have to act, because we don't have anywhere else to go. The rest of the world is on board, but we kind of need the big oil hog to calm down(I try to be funny, but in reality its sad).

                          Let me know what you think!

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                          • #14
                            Re: I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

                            So. There is this story I tell myself to help me sleep and not fear a potential Trump Presidency. It goes back to things I've said above about how the DNC is effectively redefining itself as more liberal with the help of the insurgent Bernie Sanders. This is a good thing in my opinion for liberals. Sure it looks bad now but there is so little Sanders' has in common with Trump that any bleed over should be minor.

                            Instead these growing pains are that of the liberal party trying to ensure it stays revolutionary. I theorized earlier that the Democratic Party saw the rise of the neoliberal movement as a side effect of the party's need to compete during an era where conservatism dominated. Now that the party has become pretty center, and while the GOP has become increasingly out of touch (nationally) as is demonstrated by the winning insurgent populist of D J T who has flouted bread and butter conservative agenda routinely to great fanfare within the GOP's base, it is realizing that it is no longer needing to hide in the shadows of repression. It just took an outsider to the democrats to prove this point. This is where the DNC establishment, of which just 8 or so years ago wasn't putting gay marriage in its platform, is slow to realize that it doesn't need to continue promulgating a neoliberal agenda as the avante garde liberal policy. It is now free to go even further liberal!

                            As a progressive what I want to see happen is in fact a crack in the Democratic Party. Not right away, and maybe it doesn't have to happen, but I feel that it could benefit our nation. In eight or sixteen years time I believe the GOP ought to reinvent itself and its message and allow its party to accept the 'neoliberal' wing which could serve to soften its hardline messaging of late and allow it to compete nationally again.

                            In the meantime the liberals can move to embrace not just social liberalism but economic liberalism.

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                            • #15
                              Re: I participated in the political process today, and it felt good

                              If the DNC is serious about distinguishing itself from the RNC they will turn their back on Hillary. Sadly they well not. Hillary is too ingrained in the military and political industrial machine. I describe her as the illuminati's dream child candidate.
                              Skud


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