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  • Throwing Down my Tin Foil Gaunlet :)

    I have created this thread to challenge [MENTION=19760]ScratchnSniff0[/MENTION] assertion made in this post that I have a "tin foil hat."

    I take this as a very serious challenge to my personal integrity and intellectual honesty, and I challenge Scratch to find any thing that I have posted which is untrue.

    Drawing conclusions is a different matter. If you reach a different set of conclusions than I have, based on the facts presented, well... anyway...

    However, post Snowden revelations, I fail to see how anything can really be called "tin foil hat" any more. Perhaps you haven't looked through those disclosures, and don't realize just how extensive the NSA's capabilities are these days? It's absolutely frightening. Here, have a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global...0%93present%29

    Now, I want you to really go and read that entire article, before you ever level the accusation of "tin foil hat" at me, or anyone else, ever again.

    And that's just one aspect of it. In my research in the last few months, I have discovered an economic and legal system that is literally rigged against the vast majority of working people nowadays, neverending war, an ever increasing police state, increased surveillance, loss of personal liberties, inflated currency, out of control money printing by central banks, the largest migrations of human beings ever in our history as a species, and on and on and on. It's like we are living in the last days of Rome, or some banana republic, with the Presidency just being passed back and forth between a couple influential families, and the robbing of the Treasury by the oligarchs. Our government has seized up, it's no longer functionally representing the will of the people. It's quite disturbing.

    Again, I challenge you, Scratch, to disprove any of these assertions. Or at minimum, post your own assertions. They don't have to be cited, links, etc. I'd just like to hear your opinion at this point.

    And so, my main question for you is:

    Are you just unaware of these facts (I know that this is the case with many people, as they are not really discussed on the main stream Western propaganda channels, I myself have had to dig quite a bit to find them)?

    OR

    Perhaps, given the same facts, you are either unwilling or unable to put the dots together and come to the same conclusion(s) as I have?

    I'm really just trying to figure this out.

    Finally, I would just state that everything I have asserted is plainly verifiable with the slightest amount of research. I am not asserting Lizard People or Annukai or that "Joos are running everything!!!!111!!!11!", or anything of the sort. I am just reporting a number of extremely alarming trends that I have learned about.

    Your move, take the blue pill and go back to sleep, which is your right but if so you never get to level the charge of "tin foil hat" at anyone ever again.

    Or, take the red pill, and seek out and learn the truth.

    I honestly wouldn't hold it against you if you choose the former. To be honest with you, some times I really wish didn't know everything I know now, because it can be quite disheartening at times. I think this is why you see all of these sort of themes represented in movies, books, and other works. It is because they are too disturbing to face for most people in reality. It is very depressing coming to grips with the fact that many of the things you have been told your entire life are outright lies. And that you have to seriously re-think large parts of your entire paradigm and worldview. I know, because I have had to do all of those things. It's very painful. And if I did not have the luxury of doing this near full time the last several months, and not having to work, I probably could not have done it myself. But just because things are uncomfortable to us, does not make them untrue.

    I suppose that I extend this challenge to any interested party, and not just limiting it to Scratch.

    And I'm not trying to pick on you, Scratch, this is all in good humor and in the interest of furthering the spread of knowledge and truth. I have no other agenda here.
    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw




  • #2
    Re: Throwing Down my Tin Foil Gaunlet :)

    I accept this challenge! But unfortunately I don't have time for it tonight. "...I shall return," tomorrow or Saturday.
    sigpic
    "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess." -Man's Prayer Red Green Show
    "Quando omni flunkus moritati" -When all else fails, play dead. -Red Green Show
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    • #3
      Re: Throwing Down my Tin Foil Gaunlet :)

      Okay, spoke too soon. I had a real busy day today, tomorrow for sure.

      sigpic
      "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess." -Man's Prayer Red Green Show
      "Quando omni flunkus moritati" -When all else fails, play dead. -Red Green Show
      [Link to my Youtube!]
      [Link to my Twitch!]
      [support]

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      • #4
        Re: Throwing Down my Tin Foil Gaunlet :)

        Since Scratch missed his deadline I'll bite into the apple if you guys don't mind. Fair warning - I'm not pulling punches.

        Originally posted by Randy_Shughart_ClwFL View Post
        post Snowden revelations, I fail to see how anything can really be called "tin foil hat" any more. Perhaps you haven't looked through those disclosures, and don't realize just how extensive the NSA's capabilities are these days? It's absolutely frightening. Here, have a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global...0%93present%29

        Now, I want you to really go and read that entire article, before you ever level the accusation of "tin foil hat" at me, or anyone else, ever again.

        And that's just one aspect of it. In my research in the last few months, I have discovered an economic and legal system that is literally rigged against the vast majority of working people nowadays, neverending war, an ever increasing police state, increased surveillance, loss of personal liberties, inflated currency, out of control money printing by central banks, the largest migrations of human beings ever in our history as a species, and on and on and on.
        I'll start with that bigger paragraph then and I'll be incredibly blunt: your claim is effectively that we do not live a perfect idealized world. That the institutions that exist are imperfect, corrupt, and imposing. I'm sorry but I have to say; duh. Power, based on money, capital, or force, insulates itself. What'd be your first financial decision if you were given a few million dollars (beyond just buying a few guilty pleasures)? You'd invest it and turn that cash into something that can generate money (stocks, retirement plans, rental property, etc.). Well it is fully rational that any person, when granted enough freedom to do so, will then use their power to insulate their control of that power (see how I've replaced money with the word power?).

        So when businesses, politicians, private citizens, or any other individual or institution uses its power to make itself more powerful I have to say, quite literally, duh, because that is what we call freedom. Yes, literally, freedom is defined as the ability to do actions without constraint.

        Where I start to form a disagreement with you is that you seem to claim that this odd, this is new, and this is wrong (to me it is natural as the saying goes, to err is human).

        A lot of your complaints have no description behind them; "rigged economic/legal system" could just as easily be attributed to any time, future or present, because of the rule of scarcity. It would be more helpful if you described in what way these systems are flawed or rigged. That gets you out of 'tin foil hat' territory and into the realm of policy wonks.

        Other ones, like the never ending wars, are objectively bad and difficult to disagree with. However, I'd argue that what we're seeing now in the Middle East is far different to how we got there fourteen years ago. What, I'd argue, we are witness to is the fact that being the world's economic and military superpower comes with great responsibilities and a great ability to screw it all up. Frankly, we screwed it up big time recently and have a history of screwing over other nations in order to get a better deal (I just recently became aware of Operation Just Cause, its a good example, but Iran-Contra is still probably the best one because it also meant we screwed over our black, they didn't vote for Nixon or Reagan, populations too).

        Ultimately, I'd wager a lot on the fact that Foreign Policy is an impossibly difficult prospect when you are on top. I personally think the Syrian conflict needs to be resolved sooner than later, and if it weren't for our loss of clout over the last 14 years, I'd say we could have done it justly. But we've lost that moral high ground and are also deservedly war weary. But again, saying never ending war, is like saying the sky is blue. Conflict will be happening everywhere and, like it or not, as the de facto world power we've got a lot of pull and reason to be involved (doesn't mean we are right when we get involved).

        However I need to call you out to specifically bring forth evidence of this 'police state', which I think you are using incorrectly or exaggerating greatly. The loss of Freedoms needs to be clarified, because losing some freedoms, like say the right to blaze down a highway at 120 mph isn't a big bother to me. As well as what increased surveillance means and whether or not its kind of a 'duh' moment when our world is becoming digitized and computerized. Or what exactly is inflated currency referencing or how Quantitative Easing is a terrible thing despite the US having been hit the lightest of developed western nations by the Great Recession.

        Finally, that (forced) migration business is a direct result of, you know, the Syrian Conflict not getting resolved quickly and the existence of, whether or not you want to accept it, global warming and climate change. As well as other oppressive regimes, failed regimes, or environmental disasters. So people are leaving a sucky place for a new place? What is the core problem? Its not like that sucky place is going to just get better or that you want us to intervene to make that sucky place better. If we are talking about voluntary migration that last bit is doubly so; who freaking cares if someone is leaving an area that sucks for one that is better? That is literally why the United States exists.

        It's like we are living in the last days of Rome, or some banana republic, with the Presidency just being passed back and forth between a couple influential families, and the robbing of the Treasury by the oligarchs. Our government has seized up, it's no longer functionally representing the will of the people. It's quite disturbing.
        This is explicitly tinfoil-esque. Naysayers and doomsayers abound in all times - the end is nigh - the best has come and passed - abandon all hope! And that brings me back to my original point; you are simply describing an imperfect world run by imperfect people. Their are big, huuuuge, problems that need to be resolved, but I have yet to see any indication that the end is nigh, that some borderline omniscient conspiracy is in place to keep the good people down, and that anything happening now needs to be explained in any way different from people (with power) seeking more and more freedom.

        And so, my main question for you is:

        Are you just unaware of these facts (I know that this is the case with many people, as they are not really discussed on the main stream Western propaganda channels, I myself have had to dig quite a bit to find them)?
        This also comes off as tinfoily because you didn't actually bring facts; you brought assertions and claimed that what you assume are our sources are just propaganda.


        Perhaps, given the same facts, you are either unwilling or unable to put the dots together and come to the same conclusion(s) as I have?
        And this is not only insulting but reeks of 'I've found the light why can't you!' zealotry.

        Finally, I would just state that everything I have asserted is plainly verifiable with the slightest amount of research. I am not asserting Lizard People or Annukai or that "Joos are running everything!!!!111!!!11!", or anything of the sort. I am just reporting a number of extremely alarming trends that I have learned about.
        Trends aren't a theory. They are just data. You, in other posts, are making a theory from these trends you are observing. Here, I'm not really sure what that theory is but elsewhere it has come off as some nefarious large scale conspiracy. To an extent I agree with you on your concern for many of your trends, I just don't see a puppet master, I see imperfect people and imperfect institutions doing imperfect things. And that distinction makes me more optimistic than you appear to be.
        No person can simply just be; they are what they do.

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        • #5
          Throwing Down my Bronze Underpants :)

          Wow Ytman! This, just this! All this! You've said quite a bit I agree with, and much more eloquently than I ever could. I am kind of glad you beat me to the punch on this because I could not say it better.

          I agree especially with these statements:

          Originally posted by Ytman
          This is explicitly tinfoil-esque. Naysayers and doomsayers abound in all times - the end is nigh - the best has come and passed - abandon all hope! And that brings me back to my original point; you are simply describing an imperfect world run by imperfect people.
          Originally posted by Ytman
          This also comes off as tinfoily because you didn't actually bring facts; you brought assertions and claimed that what you assume are our sources are just propaganda.
          Originally posted by Ytman
          And this is not only insulting but reeks of 'I've found the light why can't you!' zealotry.
          Originally posted by Ytman
          Trends aren't a theory. They are just data. You, in other posts, are making a theory from these trends you are observing. Here, I'm not really sure what that theory is but elsewhere it has come off as some nefarious large scale conspiracy. To an extent I agree with you on your concern for many of your trends, I just don't see a puppet master, I see imperfect people and imperfect institutions doing imperfect things. And that distinction makes me more optimistic than you appear to be.
          I want to add one about this:

          Originally posted by Randy
          I take this as a very serious challenge to my personal integrity and intellectual honesty, and I challenge Scratch to find any thing that I have posted which is untrue.

          Drawing conclusions is a different matter. If you reach a different set of conclusions than I have, based on the facts presented, well... anyway...
          Do you know why I challenge your "person integrity and intellectual honesty?" I wrote, "I like my nVidia 970 card," and you devalued my opinion into nothing but fanboyism and personal dishonesty, and quite frankly made my opinion out to be nothing. Now you're calling me out for calling you out on what was basically an insult? Randy, you must understand. We love ya buddy, it's not even that we explicitly disagree with everything you say. Yes we disagree with you on things, but the way you say these things has started to sound antagonistic in your approach. You sound like you are angry with us! Your reams of evidence are much appreciated, it's when you go on a diatribe when we say things.

          Originally posted by Randy
          However, post Snowden revelations, I fail to see how anything can really be called "tin foil hat" any more. Perhaps you haven't looked through those disclosures, and don't realize just how extensive the NSA's capabilities are these days? It's absolutely frightening. Here, have a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global...0%93present%29
          Case in point: I disagreed with you on ONE post, and you've created a thread on how I totally disagree with you on everything you've ever said. Hell, I could even say I wasn't even disagreeing with you but I was responding to the OP. I never mentioned anything about the NSA, yet you've mentioned it in your post like I disagree with you on that subject. I don't disagree with you on that subject, but I haven't read nor replied to your other posts on that subject!

          Yes, I think it is wrong and immoral that they have been given the leeway to spy on EVERYONE instead of having to get specific warrants for specific situations. I agree there is some shady stuff going on in the world. What does have to do with nVidia cards, though? Nothing!

          Now, I will comfortably go ahead and respond to your other posts on the forums, but I am not going to spend my whole weekend coming up with evidence to agree or disagree with everything you've ever said on this one thread.
          sigpic
          "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess." -Man's Prayer Red Green Show
          "Quando omni flunkus moritati" -When all else fails, play dead. -Red Green Show
          [Link to my Youtube!]
          [Link to my Twitch!]
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          • #6
            Re: Throwing Down my Tin Foil Gaunlet :)

            Look, I'm trying to do you guys a favor by bringing the truth to your attention. You can ignore it at your own peril.

            YT, your premises and assumptions are so off base, I don't even know where to begin.

            Anyone else who may be following along, who is interested in the truth, and in understanding what is really going on in the world today, might want to begin by watching this video:



            This guy has some other good videos as well, I agree with a lot of his political analysis and how revolution should be conducted (i.e., peaceably as long as possible). You may want to watch some of his other videos.

            I agree with this guy. I think we are in stage 1 right now. And therefore I am full time working on social media and in person (every time I go to the grocery store, etc.) trying to spread the truth and start trying to pierce through the masses delicate little bubbles which have been based on many lies and propaganda, since now I have studied enough to see what is really going on and I see through them. Most people get a sense that "something isn't quite right" although they might not be able to put their finger on it, exactly.

            I hope and pray (even though I am not particularly religious) that we can keep it in stage 1, maybe stage 2. But I agree with Chris Hedges, the only thing that power understands is force, and I am afraid that they will take it all the way. He made a very good observation incidentally, that the terms of the revolution are always dictated by the powers that be. And because they have absolutely failed to respond reasonably to these various crises, they have made conditions ripe for the rise of a figure like Trump. Because people are sick of the BS. I fear that if Trump doesn't get elected, or that he is not the savior people are looking for, or that Hillary does get elected, in which case things are only going to continue getting worse (i.e., keep going down the road of serving the neocons / Western fiat petrodollar scammers interests, at the expense of the other 99% of us). And that's when things will get even worse. Imagine a more totalitarian figure than even Trump coming to the fore. Or who knows what. None of those possibilities look good. But remember, TPTB will dictate the terms of what happens. So far they have shown nothing but hubris, arrogance, and disregard. And so I do fear that out of a range of possibilities that some of the bad ones are looking increasingly more likely.

            These neocons (Hillary is their poster child) are going to get us into WW3, do you think they care?

            Follow the money. It all goes back to the Fed. Here is a relatively easy video to follow. If you prefer a more scholarly work, I would refer you to The Creature From Jekyl Island, a book that lays it all out in gory details.



            These people would rather burn the world than allow the petrodollar to quietly transition over to something else.

            Please stop believing everything you see on the Western main stream propaganda channels.

            If you detect that my fun and games demeanor has gone out the window, well that's because it has.

            In between my spreading of the good (bad?) news, I am going to the range every chance I get to hone my marskmanship skills. We are working on stockpiling 1 year of food and other supplies. We are looking right now at 5-10 acre properties out in the countryside, away from population centers. I wish I was kidding with you. I have practically no interest in playing video games any longer. I don't WANT to believe any of this, the implications of which are extremely frightening and depressing. But to ignore the evidence at this point is IMO normalcy bias.

            Unfortunately even saying the above in public probably puts me on some list or brands me as a "domestic terrorist!" This is the USSA of 2016 we are living in, folks! How dare I demand that our Federal .gov be constrained by The Constitution!

            THERE, I have done my part, my conscience is clear, if you do not take the information I have presented and profit from it you do so at your own peril. At minimum, I would encourage you to do your own research and come to your own conclusions. But it also requires some work, healthy skepticism, ability to see through propaganda, and a good understanding of history and economics. Perhaps others who don't see what I see are lacking those things. But discount me as crazy and ignore my warnings at your own peril. I'm just about done trying to convince people who don't want to listen.
            Last edited by Randy_Shughart_ClwFL; 08-18-2016, 05:07 PM.
            "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Throwing Down my Tin Foil Gaunlet :)

              Here is some food for thought for anyone who believes in the massive lies that constitute "sensible gun control" rhetoric (hint: the gun grabbers just want to take your guns, anything moving toward that goal are just incremental steps in the direction of their ultimate goal). Anyway, Obama has gone from Nobel Peace prize winner to the largest arms dealer in the world in only 8 years: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...st-arms-dealer

              So, I guess guns are bad for law abiding citizens, but good for third world crapholes and Islamic fundamentalists, eh? Kind of blows that whole liberal "gun control" argument out of the water, now doesn't it?

              And you think you are "free!" Ha!
              "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Throwing Down my Tin Foil Gaunlet :)

                BTW, "living Constitution" my eye. Correcting mistakes that have been made would be like, eliminating slavery. Not massively overstepping the bounds that were put into place for very specific reasons, which you would understand if you had one iota of understanding of the law and history of Western civilization leading up to the writing of the Constitution.

                Our Federal government was designed from the outset to be constrained and remain relatively small, and retain much of the power to the states. And look at where we are today. I would suggest you review Bastiat's The Law, particularly the discussions of positive and negative Law. This is one of the many things far too many people have lost sight of in this country.

                "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Throwing Down my Tin Foil Gaunlet :)

                  Originally posted by Randy_Shughart_ClwFL View Post
                  BTW, "living Constitution" my eye.
                  This ^^^^^

                  The Constitution of the United States of America is a contract between the governed and the government that expressly defines how our government should operate and the limits to their specifically enumerated powers.

                  A contract, by nature of it's purpose, can not be unilaterally changed without the consent of all parties unless said contract explicitly allows one party that right. The Constitution of the United States does not provide this right to the federal government.

                  The Constitution is only a "living Constitution" in reference to the founders providing a mechanism (Article 5) for it to be amended and modified. It is NOT in the power of the Chief Executive to circumvent the Constitution or a Constitutional Convention to make things the way they want them. Nor does it grant this power to the US Supreme Court.

                  From my perspective, modern media largely ignores this and if anyone challenges an overreach of government power, they are usually challenged based on the content of the overreach rather than the overreach itself.

                  Example: I vehemently oppose the Supreme Court granting "marriage rights" to LGBTQ. Most "mainstream" news sources, broadcast, print and Internet, would label me a "hater" and say all sorts of nasty things about me because I am **REALLY** opposed to this. I'm a Nazi, a dictator, a back-woods redneck, or whatever nasty term they would use to describe me. But does the reason WHY I oppose this matter at all? I think so... The Supreme Court does not have JURISDICTION to define ANYTHING with marriage. It's not a power granted to the federal government and therefore is a power reserved to the States. The Federal government simply does not have the authority to govern marriage unless and article 5 convention is held to grant them that power. And we all should know that powers not granted to the federal government revert to the states, or the People. I have no issue with LGBTAQ marriage, but that's not up to the Fed/Supremes to decide.

                  Yeah, I believe in the Constitution and I believe in State's Rights. That's not a very "progressive" thing to say, and apparently in Obama's America that makes me "dangerous".
                  Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Throwing Down my Tin Foil Gaunlet :)

                    Randy, hmm, I think perhaps one of the issues with your posts is their very pointed nature, the level of presumption as regards others, your repeated presentation of other people's conjecture as truth etc. Perhaps most personally irksome to someone like myself with a modest grasp of history etc is your repeated, rather angry sounding proclamation that anyone who doesn't agree with you is a sheep or asleep.

                    For many, many of us avowed cynics, this isn't news, at all. Politicians are by and large morally bankrupt paid shills for rich criminals, shocker. Newsflash from a country thats been around a bit longer, this is the way of things, somewhat disgustingly it always has been.

                    The fact you've had an apparent mid life epiphany and noticed doesn't mean nobody else has, some time ago.

                    You'd probably get more traction if you dialled down the 'frothing at the mouth wearing a sandwich board ' approach lol. Many of us are very, very dissatisfied with the current state of things, globally and in our own countries.

                    Makes interesting reading either way.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Throwing Down my Tin Foil Gaunlet :)

                      Of course you are right, Wicks. I know well enough that one will catch more flies with honey than vinegar of course. Believe it or not I generally take a much more tactful tone when speaking to people in person at the market, or when "doing my work" on social media, etc. Sort of like bringing people out of the Matrix, you have to do so slowly and at the person's own pace. As you lead the victims of Stockholm Syndrome out of the cave their eyes take a while to open up to the full light of the truth! Yes I'm mixing metaphors, but the hour is late! :) All jokes aside, my experience has been, when talking to people, there is a great sense that things are "not quite right" although everyone has not put all the pieces together quite as well as some of us have. But quite often I find people greatly interested in the things I have to say, because they share the same concerns and see many of the same problems. And they see great value in the time/research/thought I have put in, and the conclusions I have come to. The vast majority of people simply don't have that amount time to put into it, but when I lay out sensible arguments they ring true to many. Not all people of course.

                      Anyway, not sure why I decided to take a different tact here on these forums. An interesting question, I'll have to consider later.

                      One thing that I am sure you must be aware of (or maybe not?) is just how propagandized most Americans are. I mean, my perception is that this was sort of the running joke around the rest of the world?

                      I, personally, have always found it fascinating how so many here in the U.S. have this sort of Potempkin Village view of our politicians / political process, that they are somehow noble or interested in doing anything whatsoever that is in the interest of anything other than furthering their own aims, or the aims of their wealthy backers. I mean, in Europe and much of the rest of the world, it seems to me like everyone knows the politicians are full of it, if not outright sociopaths. But over here in the states, there are just so many muppets that actually believe the words of the politicians instead of looking at their actions. I don't know why this is. Maybe they want to believe that most people are inherently good? I mean, I believe that. But I also know that 4-10% (depending on source) of humans are also sociopaths, and that these people disproportionately seek out positions of power over others (if you want some interesting reading, search what the top 10 occupations are for sociopaths).

                      Or maybe they simply believe the B.S. that is spewed on the mainstream media "because it's on the 6 o clock news, it must be true!" I dunno, maybe everyone the world over are this dumb, too, and my perceptions are just off. But I don't suspect I am.

                      Or maybe intelligence, greed, sociopathy ARE distributed equally across populations of various countries of the world. But to the extent we have the best funded most powerful military in the history of the world (i.e., they actually have the means to carry out their sociopathic ideas of ruling over others, and stealing their resources, much more so than your average tin pot dictator) I suppose that we as American citizens have proportionately that much more responsibility to pay attention to just what is being done all around the world in our name, and to try and rein in "our own sociopaths" as much as possible, for the good of all of humanity at this point.

                      It's like we have this Disneyfied view of the rest of the world. And everything is cloaked in the terms of "freedom!!!!!!111!!!11!!!" and "democracy!!!111!!!11!" but it's all a bunch of hogwash! Perhaps this is the most egregious part of it all, the part that makes me the most angry. Because I do believe in American exceptionalism, the American dream, and all that stuff. I mean, not in the current sick sociopathic neocon sense of "American exceptionalism" which just uses the trappings of patriotism and religion to pursue the political and financial objectives of a very few wealthy well connected elites. But rather those things that truly make America different from any other nation created in the history of this earth. The recognitions of our natural rights as free men, the recognition that government is generally bad and that it should be limited, and of course the right to bear arms because it is the most important right, and guarantees all the other rights to continue to exist.

                      In short, I am afraid that the liberties we have enjoyed, and that have been codified in our Constitution (and now, ignored) are rapidly slipping through our fingers. The American dream is going out the window, economically and otherwise. And when you start to take action, and "be the change you want to see in the world" as I have, you very quickly realize that yes there are a lot of people (and an ever growing number, thankfully) who are seeing the same things that I am, although there are still far far too many who buy into the B.S. and the propaganda and the marketing lies and these people I am realizing are a large part of the problem! They are enablers! I know I shouldn't look at them with disdain, I was asleep once too and I realize how counter productive it is to hit someone over the head with something, you will never get them to listen to you that way.

                      It just came to me why the sudden urgency. I see a number of frightening trends in the world today. At first I started investigating because of the economic situation. But the more I dug and started putting things together, I realized that these neocons are very likely going to lead us into war with Russia and/or China via Syria and Iran (or elsewhere, take your pick). Now we aren't talking about some savages in the desert any more (like our "friends" the Saudis). We are talking about real countries with real modern armies, and nukes. I am not a coward but I see no reason for us to be quarreling with these people. I am certainly not willing to go to war, in order to help some billionaires make a few more millions/billions, most of which will only further be used to corrupt our political system and harm our own citizens and economy, to say nothing of all the death and destruction that will cause around the world, to us, them, and everyone else unlucky enough to be caught in the middle. It's simply insanity.



                      And so, if I have lost all pretense of foppish lounging about the country club sort of detached intellectually stimulating but not particularly pressing debate, well then that is why. If I seem a bit unhinged, well it is because I am. As the guy so succinctly states in the video I just posted above, wars don't really start exactly on the dates they teach you in school that are in the history books. The conditions that lead to wars all happen before that. And looking around the world today, I see a frightening number of things going on. We simply don't have time to be nice to people and ask them to please stop playing Pokemon Go and worrying about Kim Kardashians rear end or how their football team is doing. There are very very important issues which are largely being ignored by large segments of the populace, some of which very likely will lead to war, if Hillary is elected.

                      Speaking of that, I just get beside myself with anger every time the MSM portrays Trump as a war monger, when Hillary is the real hawk. It's disgusting. And people believe this crap! I see Trump slipping in the (rigged) "polls" because he says a few crazy things. But Killary (and her neocon ilk) policies have already caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands, and the largest movements of humanity in our history as a species, and no one (in the MSM) says boo about it. The MSM is non-stop Trump bashing, calling him a traitor or dangerous every time he winks at Putin, but Killery approves the sale of 20% of our national production of Uranium to the Russians as Secretary of State, AND NO ONE SAYS BOO ABOUT IT. It is like we are living in bizarro world over here, I don't think you really understand just how bad the propaganda is, just how completely the oligarchs have captured the MSM in this country (90+% of media outlets owned by 6 corporations) but most disturbing of all HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE BELIEVING THE B.S.!

                      Yes I am coming unhinged!

                      We are looking at a collapse of the world's reserve currency, or WW3, but these muppets are just happy that FOOBAW is about to start! Woo hoo!

                      Incidentally Wicks, I too have always known a lot of this stuff, I just have taken the time to research and learn a lot more of the specifics recently. When Paulson went before Congress and claimed to need $700B THAT DAY or the world was going to end, I knew something was up. I didn't know exactly what was going on at that time, like I do today, but I know a con job when I see one. That is what initially triggered the slow burn, leading to a full on conflagration inside me, especially in the last several months.

                      Incidentally (for those keeping score at home) that was a straight up robbery of our Treasury by the oligarchs, if you didn't know that already. It's like we are living in the last days of Rome here (I grow ever more afraid that is exactly what is happening, unfortunately) and if you have not been extremely angry all along about this ROBBERY like I have, then you are simply not paying attention. Sorry to be the one to break it to you. WAKE UP. /slap

                      I suppose I'm glad I'm entertaining you, at any rate! lol

                      Wicks (and anyone else reading this), you call yourself an old cynic, and it sounds like you are seeing a lot of the same things I am seeing (and have for a long time). I used to be a cynic too, some times I still am, but a cynic is just a disappointed idealist. I would not presume to know what political or other activity you are already engaged in outside of what I can see on this forum, but I invite you to join me in spreading the truth to all who would hear it. I know you are an excellent wordsmith in your own right, it would be wonderful to employ that for the cause. Yes some are still resistant but I have found that overall there is a great thirst out there for this information. I feel we are witnessing a great awakening right before our eyes and I feel very strongly that history will show that this was an important period for civilization / mankind as a species. I feel that something big is about to happen, one way or the other. Many others do also and the number is growing all the time. I do not know what the future holds but I do know that I am doing everything I can to spread truth (in a time of almost universal lies) and to do my small part in trying to nudge history in a better direction. I invite everyone to join me to the extent that your own time and resources will allow. Even just saying a few words to friends / family, or making a comment here or there on social media can make a difference. All that evil requires to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

                      You cannot bring people out of there sleep until they are really ready themselves. But you can make them think, you can start to puncture the little bubbles of illogical untruths that prop up their world view. Many of the assumptions I used to hold were challenged at one time in this way and this made me question them over the course of many years, and ultimately lead me to where I am today. So don't think that it's a waste of time or that it doesn't matter. Besides the few people who have replied here, I know many more have read this thread silently. Some will agree with me, some may not, but I know that I have planted some seeds with some people. That's all you need to do, your small part of planting seeds of truth in the universe, and then letting them grow. There is an inordinate amount of propaganda, marketing, and outright lies out in the world today, which have led many people to a number of incorrect conclusions. I implore all of you to join me in tearing all the lies down and building a better world going forward. Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

                      I am a free, sovereign man and I will not allow ideals like liberty, truth, and justice to perish on my watch, not without a fight. Join me. Don't be a cynic. BE the change you want to see in the world. I am telling you, look at what is going on, look at the popularity of previously unheard of "outsider" candidates, in US and Europe. I don't need to tell you about Brexit. The U.K. was the first domino, but if right prevail the parasites in Brussels will eventually be brought down also, they are the same power hungry sociopathic globalists. A growing number of people are sick of the B.S. - THE TIME IS RIGHT! JOIN ME MY FRIEND! :) I could sure use the help...

                      P.S. Seeing as how this is the tin foil thread after all, here is a bit of tin foil rebuttal for you. I was on this guy's channel (I like him a lot, lots of truth in his work IMO) looking up one of his videos to post in this thread (above) when I came across this other video. Enjoy (and then tell me if you still think I'm crazy -- enjoy the internet and free dissemination of information while you still can!):

                      Last edited by Randy_Shughart_ClwFL; 08-19-2016, 02:56 PM.
                      "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Throwing Down my Tin Foil Gaunlet :)

                        Originally posted by Apophis View Post
                        Example: I vehemently oppose the Supreme Court granting "marriage rights" to LGBTQ. Most "mainstream" news sources, broadcast, print and Internet, would label me a "hater" and say all sorts of nasty things about me because I am **REALLY** opposed to this.
                        Just wanted to address this first. Myself being previously in the same boat with you (I had the stance of no gay marriage justified by the no marriage as a state institution) I can completely relate to the labels associated with such a position. Tolerance and Intolerance are possibly relative, depending on how society's standards of decency evolve, and I think right now we're too concerned about being offended or offending others. Some people blame PC or MSM but I think it just comes down to a breakdown in respectful but opposed conversation. People talking past each other on both sides. That and the internet's anonymity allows some pretty cruel and mean things.

                        This being said, I'd personally put that particular SCOTUS ruling in the same category as Desegregation. Certain rights are innate to this federation of states therefore I seem it necessary for the Federal government to ensure these rights. Put another way there is a pragmatic reality associated with allowing some people to have rights only geographically and we fought a bloody war over that and committed terrible atrocities against blacks and natives otherwise. A right is a right and it shouldn't matter what state you live in to change that.

                        The Constitution of the United States of America is a contract between the governed and the government that expressly defines how our government should operate and the limits to their specifically enumerated powers.

                        A contract, by nature of it's purpose, can not be unilaterally changed without the consent of all parties unless said contract explicitly allows one party that right. The Constitution of the United States does not provide this right to the federal government.
                        But the constitution was never supposed to be the only contract. Its the first contract and the framing document upon all else is built. Furthermore, no one is changing the Constitution and the Constitution isn't being changed when the SCOTUS rules that Marriage is a right and no state institution can deny that right to any Citizen of the United States.

                        The Constitution is only a "living Constitution" in reference to the founders providing a mechanism (Article 5) for it to be amended and modified. It is NOT in the power of the Chief Executive to circumvent the Constitution or a Constitutional Convention to make things the way they want them. Nor does it grant this power to the US Supreme Court.

                        From my perspective, modern media largely ignores this and if anyone challenges an overreach of government power, they are usually challenged based on the content of the overreach rather than the overreach itself.

                        Yeah, I believe in the Constitution and I believe in State's Rights. That's not a very "progressive" thing to say, and apparently in Obama's America that makes me "dangerous".
                        Pfft. Dangerous? I think that is being a fair bit dramatic? There are, I'd argue, a majority of State Governments that agree with you. Sure the liberal wing thinks that certain rights are American Rights and not State Rights but the only people that are labeled 'dangerous' are the loons that claim violence as an answer - not that position. Besides its not a Binary Function, though that does well for our politicians pitting each other against the other, States' rights does still exist just not unilaterally in overruling the Federal government.

                        Don't take being a minority opinion as being equatable with being a demon or being demonized. Its just, well, you posses a minority opinion and so will lose now and again. An opinion, in our democracy may full well come back and allow nuanced SCOTUS rulings like United States v. Cruikshank (from 1875) which found that the Bill of Rights didn't protect people in individual States somehow.


                        ====

                        @Randy You've been bit by the bug. I respect you enough as a friend to not continue what is demonstrably impossible to be a rational and well reasoned debate of opposing views. The fear of the Apocalypse is a common one, you are not the first one to have it and you are not the last, and it does terrible things to ones' mind. I remember back in 2003 talking with a self-identifying preacher as the war in Iraq was literally beginning and he too claimed the end was nigh (this guy was pro-war too btw). He wanted me to pray with him and I did for his sake. This GreenPrint rant is the same thing but my opinion has changed and I will no longer placate destructive paranoia and self-reinforcing zealotry.

                        God speed man.

                        And I'm voting Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine. And I'm not blind, not dumb, not evil, not greedy, not racist, and certainly not a beaten victim with no self-identity or force of will no matter how much your woke world view demands I must be all of those things and more. I just have a different opinion, and lets be honest, its not as bad as you make it out to be.

                        On the plus side I don't have to worry about playing my Planetman from the wrong side of a VPN.
                        Last edited by Ytman; 08-20-2016, 03:06 PM.
                        No person can simply just be; they are what they do.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Throwing Down my Tin Foil Gaunlet :)

                          Yt, you lost me at 'voting for Hilary' lol. Seriously, regardless of the terrifying prospect of Trump, Hilary is a Sociopathic proven serial liar, a traitor, a vindictive bully of her husband's predatory conquests and a breaker of more laws than I can list in a reasonable time frame.

                          I am stunned, even by today's standards (or to be more accurate, double standards) that she's still in the race instead of custody where she belongs.

                          The Clintons are an almost cartoonish poster child for everything that is wrong with politics, money in politics and more broadly, people in general. Their history, which I've been researching of late is frankly incredible. I knew they were bad but wow, actually horrifying, even for career politicians with no conviction, discernible morality or humanity. She actually makes me feel physically sick to look at her, what a vile creature.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Throwing Down my Tin Foil Gaunlet :)

                            Originally posted by Ytman View Post
                            @Randy You've been bit by the bug. I respect you enough as a friend to not continue what is demonstrably impossible to be a rational and well reasoned debate of opposing views. The fear of the Apocalypse is a common one, you are not the first one to have it and you are not the last, and it does terrible things to ones' mind. I remember back in 2003 talking with a self-identifying preacher as the war in Iraq was literally beginning and he too claimed the end was nigh (this guy was pro-war too btw). He wanted me to pray with him and I did for his sake. This GreenPrint rant is the same thing but my opinion has changed and I will no longer placate destructive paranoia and self-reinforcing zealotry.

                            God speed man.
                            YT, it is not me who is being irrational. In fact, rationality (and following the rules of logic and critical thinking) are exactly what have forced me to discard my own previously (strongly) held assumptions / beliefs and arrive at where I am today. Which, incidentally, are the same that StormCloudsGathering (and many others) have arrived at. I just post his videos in particular, because he is pretty good at making them, doesn't waste your time, lays out well researched and sourced facts, and then makes his argument. Which, instead of asking yourself if there is any truth to it, you instead promptly discard and/or try and explain it away in terms of your dogmatic blue team worldview.

                            I would like to point out that he made most of his videos back several years ago, and just look how his analysis has played out so far. Spot on.

                            YT, I would respectfully submit that you are not even aware of the extent to which your natural human need to be part of a group (tribe) is affecting your worldview and coloring your judgements and the way you react to new information. Please watch the following video with an open mind. I'm not trying to "win" this argument with you, rather point out some things that I think if you are really honest with yourself that you should maybe just think about in your own time and in your own way.

                            "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Throwing Down my Tin Foil Gaunlet :)

                              Originally posted by Wicks View Post
                              Yt, you lost me at 'voting for Hilary' lol. Seriously, regardless of the terrifying prospect of Trump, Hilary is a Sociopathic proven serial liar, a traitor, a vindictive bully of her husband's predatory conquests and a breaker of more laws than I can list in a reasonable time frame.
                              Reminded me of this joke I came across on the internet, I just had to take it down and add it to my collection. Thank goodness for copy and paste and the text forum format, I just don't think I could recreate all of this, not that this joke would really work in person anyway, lol:

                              Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are in a bar. Donald leans over, and With A smile on his face, says, "The media is really tearing you apart for That Scandal."

                              Hillary: "You mean my lying about Benghazi?"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "You mean the massive voter fraud?"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "You mean the military not getting their votes counted?"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "Using my secret private server with classified material to Hide my Activities?"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "The NSA monitoring our phone calls, emails and everything Else?"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "Using the Clinton Foundation as a cover for tax evasion, Hiring Cronies, And taking bribes from foreign countries?

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "You mean the drones being operated in our own country without The Benefit of the law?"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "Giving 123 Technologies $300 Million, and right afterward it Declared Bankruptcy and was sold to the Chinese?"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "You mean arming the Muslim Brotherhood and hiring them in the White House?"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "Whitewater, Watergate committee, Vince Foster, commodity Deals?"

                              Trump: "No the other one:"

                              Hillary: "The funding of neoNazis in the Ukraine that led to the toppling of the democratically elected president and to the biggest crisis that country has had since WWII ?"

                              Trump: "No the other one:"

                              Hillary: "Turning Libya into chaos?"

                              Trump: "No the other one:"

                              Hillary: "Being the mastermind of the so-called “Arab Spring” that only brought chaos, death and destruction to the Middle East and North Africa ?

                              Trump: "No the other one:"

                              Hillary: "Leaving four Americans to die in Benghazi and go to sleep?

                              Trump: "No the other one:"

                              Hillary: "Trashing Mubarak, one of our few Muslim friends?"

                              Trump: "No the other one:"

                              Hillary: "Encouraging and supporting the murders of Palestinians and the destruction of their homes, towns and villages by Israel ?"

                              Trump: "No the other one:"

                              Hillary: "The funding and arming of terrorists in Syria, the destruction and destabilization of that nation, giving the order to our lapdogs in Turkey and Saudi Arabia to give sarin gas to the "moderate" terrorists in Syria that they eventually used on civilians, and framed Assad, and had it not been for the Russians and Putin, we would have used that as a pretext to invade Syria, put a puppet in power, steal their natural resources, and leave that country in total chaos, just like we did with Libya?

                              Trump: "No the other one:"

                              Hillary: "The creation of the biggest refugees crisis since WWII

                              Trump: "No the other one:"

                              Hillary: "Leaving Iraq in chaos? "

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "The DOJ spying on the press?"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "You mean HHS Secretary Sibelius shaking down health insurance Executives?"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "Giving our cronies in SOLYNDRA $500 MILLION DOLLARS and 3 Months Later they declared bankruptcy and then the Chinese bought it?"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "The NSA monitoring citizens' ?"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "The State Department interfering with an Inspector General Investigation on departmental sexual misconduct?"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "Me, The IRS, Clapper and Holder all lying to Congress?"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "Threats to all of Bill's former mistresses to keep them quiet"

                              Trump: "No, the other one."

                              Hillary: "I give up! ... Oh wait, I think I've got it! When I stole the White House furniture, silverware, when Bill left Office?"



                              Trump: "THAT'S IT! I almost forgot about that one".
                              "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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