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  • Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

    I am just waiting for the kooks to come out and say the Air Marshalls should have used restraint because the man was obviously mentally ill:icon23:


    MIAMI (AP) 12.07.05, 3:00p -- An agitated passenger who claimed to have a bomb in a carry-on bag was shot and killed by a federal air marshal Wednesday after he bolted frantically from a jetliner that was about to take off, officials said. No bomb was found in the bag, a U.S. official said.

    The man, identified as a 44-year-old U.S. citizen, was gunned down on a jetway just before the American Airlines plane was about to leave for Orlando.

    It was the first time since the Sept. 11 attacks that an air marshal had shot at anyone, Homeland Security Department spokesman Brian Doyle said.
    According to a witness, the man frantically ran down the aisle of the Boeing 757, flailing his arms, while his wife tried to explain that he was mentally ill and had not taken his medication.

    The passenger indicated there was a bomb in his bag and was confronted by air marshals but ran off the aircraft, Doyle said. The marshals went after him and ordered him to get down on the ground, but he did not comply and was shot when he apparently reached into the bag, Doyle said.

    The plane, Flight 924, had arrived in Miami from Medellin, Colombia, just after noon, and the shooting occurred shortly after 2 p.m. as the plane was about to take off for Orlando with the man and 119 other passengers and crew, American spokesman Tim Wagner said.

    After the shooting, investigators spread passengers' bags on the tarmac and let dogs sniff them for explosives, and bomb squad members blew up at least two bags.

    A U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the information's sensitivity, said authorities examined the bag and found no explosives.

    The concourse where the shooting took place was shut down for a half-hour, but the rest of the airport continued operating, officials said.

    Mary Gardner, a passenger aboard the Orlando-bound flight, told WTVJ-TV in Miami that the man ran down the aisle from the rear of the plane. ``He was frantic, his arms flailing in the air,'' she said. She said a woman followed, shouting, ``My husband! My husband!''

    Gardner said she heard the woman say her husband was bipolar - a mental illness also known as manic-depression - and had not had his medication.

    Gardner said four to five shots were fired. She could not see the shooting.

    After the shooting, police boarded the plane and told the passengers to put their hands on their heads, Gardner said.

    ``It was quite scary,'' she told the TV station via a cell phone. ``They wouldn't let you move. They wouldn't let you get anything out of your bag.''

    There were only 32 air marshals at the time of the Sept. 11 attacks. The Bush administration hired thousands more afterward, but the exact number is classified.
    "Umm Deputy these aren't my pants" - Common alarm cry of the North American Crackhead
    [tg-c1][ma-c1][defense]

  • #2
    Re: Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

    Too bad, if they didin't shoot him they would have failed in their duty. I never would have let him get that far, I'd have killed him as soon as he said he had a bomb. Stupid to not do that.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety is a miserable creature, who has no chance at being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. -- John Stuart Mill--

    "O xein angellein lakedaimoniois hoti tede keimetha tois keinon rhemasi peithomenoi"- Monument, Thermopylae

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    • #3
      Re: Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

      They were doing their job as far as I'm concerned. The woman could have been lying, it could have been an act, he could have pulled a gun, he could have pulled a detonator and blown the plane to bits.

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      • #4
        Re: Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

        I think that the use of deadly force was used to early. He had not actually pulled anything from the bag. Just my opinion.


        18th SF Operational Detachment Delta

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        • #5
          Re: Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

          if they dint do what they did .....the air lines would go down like it already has and the homeland security would look like idiots for waisting money....
          that sounds like a good idea trooper.
          -Vulcan

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          • #6
            Re: Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

            If someone claims they have a weapon in their waistband or the officer reasonably beleives theyhave a weapon in their waistband and the suspect makes a furtive movement with their hand (i.e. it is in their waistband) then you are clear to engage. This is no different. Same scenario just replace a bag with a waistband.
            "Umm Deputy these aren't my pants" - Common alarm cry of the North American Crackhead
            [tg-c1][ma-c1][defense]

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            • #7
              Re: Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

              Originally posted by TG_Bubba
              I think that the use of deadly force was used to early. He had not actually pulled anything from the bag. Just my opinion.
              OK, you're a Federal Air Marshal. You've got a guy on your plane that's about to take off that claims to have a bomb. He runs off the plane screaming about his bomb while you and your partner are yelling at him to stop and show his hands. You chase him into the skybridge and he turns around. You're yelling at him to show his hands and not move, he's still yelling that he has a bomb and he's starting to reach into his backpack. What would you wait for until you used deadly force? What would it take to get you to take the most serious of action?
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              • #8
                Re: Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

                Originally posted by CingularDuality
                OK, you're a Federal Air Marshal. You've got a guy on your plane that's about to take off that claims to have a bomb. He runs off the plane screaming about his bomb while you and your partner are yelling at him to stop and show his hands. You chase him into the skybridge and he turns around. You're yelling at him to show his hands and not move, he's still yelling that he has a bomb and he's starting to reach into his backpack. What would you wait for until you used deadly force? What would it take to get you to take the most serious of action?
                Apparently he actually has to be holding the bomb itself (because if it was just the detanator it could be a remote) :P

                Seriously though, whoever says they did the wrong thing, or didn't wait long enough, is just plain wrong.

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                • #9
                  Re: Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

                  Read a couple of Bruce Schneier's columns and you start to believe that the TSA is wasting our time and money.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

                    I don't quite understand the part where, after the guy was dead, the marshalls boarded the plane and had people "assume the position". I can't think of any other scenario where, once the threat has been elimanated, all the bystanders have to be searched.
                    [squadl]
                    "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

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                    • #11
                      Re: Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

                      they even blew up some bags....im not sure but i guess they where looking for more people i guess....precautions
                      that sounds like a good idea trooper.
                      -Vulcan

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                      • #12
                        Re: Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

                        You know, when I first heard about this I thought, "I bet he was either crazy or committing suicide." The whole thing just didn't fit the profile of a bombing. I'm not going to second guess the decision of the marshall, but it's another sad story from Fortress America™.
                        In game handle: Steel Scion
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                        • #13
                          Re: Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

                          I don't quite understand the part where, after the guy was dead, the marshalls boarded the plane and had people "assume the position". I can't think of any other scenario where, once the threat has been elimanated, all the bystanders have to be searched.
                          part of the protocol i'm sure. The crazy guy could have just as easily been a distraction, either way where there is danger presented make sure everyone is safe before closing out. IMO


                          - -

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                          • #14
                            Re: Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

                            Death by officer was my first thought. Who is stupid enough to say "I have a bomb" then reach into their bag?

                            The Marshalls did their job, and did it right. Better one dead crazy, then up to 180 dead passengers.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Air Marshalls fatally shoot passenger

                              Originally posted by Hero
                              Apparently he actually has to be holding the bomb itself (because if it was just the detanator it could be a remote) :P

                              Seriously though, whoever says they did the wrong thing, or didn't wait long enough, is just plain wrong.
                              Katie Couric asked the rhetorical question: why couldn't they just shoot his gun hand to disable him?

                              Something only someone who'd fired a pistol many times under great stress would wonder...

                              Personally, I want Air Marshalls who do NOT have a tough time deciding whether or not to shoot someone on a commercial plane who says they have a bomb. IMO if a person says that they should be spread-eagled on the ground pronto, one way or the other.

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