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  • Anti Death Penalty suggestions

    We know what pro-death supporters want, I'm interested in the arguements for a maximum penalty that would be acceptable to the anti crowd. Just locked up for life?, or would there be other means of making their stay unpleasant ?

  • #2
    Re: Anti Death Penalty suggestions

    Originally posted by phyllis
    would there be other means of making their stay unpleasant ?
    You bet there is. Unfortunately, all illegal.
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    • #3
      Re: Anti Death Penalty suggestions

      I don't believe "hard labor" is illegal or Unconstitutional, is it?

      Dirt013
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      • #4
        Re: Anti Death Penalty suggestions

        I say have them work while in prison to pay off the expenses of their imprisonment.
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        • #5
          Re: Anti Death Penalty suggestions

          Originally posted by Dirt013
          I don't believe "hard labor" is illegal or Unconstitutional, is it?

          Dirt013
          No. Unfortunately it is very "un PC" therefore it will never happen.
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          • #6
            Re: Anti Death Penalty suggestions

            I think its worse to live in jail your entire life than have the death penalty. Id rather just get it all through with than die a lil bit each day in jail. And besides, i OFTEN drop the soap.

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            • #7
              Re: Anti Death Penalty suggestions

              Working to the benefit of the surrounding area doesn't sound like too bad an idea to me.

              Community groups could pay the prison system for the labour of the prisoners. This would reduce the cost of imprisonment, and allow groups to get things done that otherwise would not be possible (because it would ostensibly be cheaper than hiring non-convicts to do the work).

              Obviously, this would only go forward when the safety and security concerns had been addressed for a particular project.

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              • #8
                Re: Anti Death Penalty suggestions

                For the greater good of the society you want to concentrate on avoiding that these things happen. Why do people kill others? And how do we prevent them from doing it again?
                Sure it's cool to say 'kill those f-ers'. Lynching is a great tradition along with raping, burning and torturing your enemies and it's one of the great human qualities. How do we rise above that?

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                • #9
                  Re: Anti Death Penalty suggestions

                  Thats the difference between a drawing board and the world. If you want to monitor every emotional exchange, ensure that no child grows up with the H.H. Holmes or Mary Bell complex's, stop war, end gang rivalries, and all that, have at it. The reasons for killing and such are simple: People are desperate, angry, emotionless, insane, depressed, or any combination of those. If you think you can cure anger, I will not stop you. ;)

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                  • #10
                    Re: Anti Death Penalty suggestions

                    Public flogging, life (meaning life, not 20 years) hard labour, and take away the coke machines, tv's, pool tables..... Victorian prison conditions ftw.

                    I'm all for public floggings in general. I can't stand it when I see criminals (and particularly repeat offenders) get sentenced to rehab or community service, or released on licence with an (easy to remove) electroning tag.

                    Going slightly off-topic, when a judge sentences you to x years in jail, that is exactly how long you should stay in for. Certainly over here, sentencing needs a complete overhaul - a hit and run driver got a few months for killing someone, and on top of that they jailed him for years for being an illegal immigrant.
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                    • #11
                      Re: Anti Death Penalty suggestions

                      Originally posted by marstein
                      For the greater good of the society you want to concentrate on avoiding that these things happen. Why do people kill others? And how do we prevent them from doing it again?
                      Sure it's cool to say 'kill those f-ers'. Lynching is a great tradition along with raping, burning and torturing your enemies and it's one of the great human qualities. How do we rise above that?
                      Are you suggesting that the execution of a legislated sentence for a heinous crime after one has been tried and convicted by a jury, and has had a minimum of 25 or judges reviewing the facts and processes that led to the conviction is in any way comparable to rape, burning, or torture?

                      Or are you comparing a lynching to the decades-long effort described above?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Anti Death Penalty suggestions

                        Originally posted by phyllis
                        Just locked up for life?, or would there be other means of making their stay unpleasant ?
                        I'm not interested in making things unpleasant for prisoners. There is no benefit to me.

                        Originally posted by root
                        , when a judge sentences you to x years in jail, that is exactly how long you should stay in for.
                        Do you mean remove the parole system? We don't want some of these people going straight from the joint to the streets with zero restrictions.

                        I'm not backing this up, but I think it's pretty well established that "carrot plus stick" works better than "stick alone".

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                        • #13
                          Re: Anti Death Penalty suggestions

                          Originally posted by Root
                          Public flogging, life (meaning life, not 20 years) hard labour, and take away the coke machines, tv's, pool tables..... Victorian prison conditions ftw.
                          Not all prisons are that cozy. Although I agree that they should not be health clubs. But they should be humane.

                          Unfortunately, fear of punishment is not a dead-straight deterrent to crime. The impulse to break the law has as many motives as there are lawbreakers. The trick is not to create an oppressive police state, but to make the crimes themselves unprofitable or unnecessary. A tall order with no easy solution.
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                          • #14
                            Re: Anti Death Penalty suggestions

                            I'll *try* to hold off on my chiming in, because I would like to see the suggestions continue to roll in, but please stick to dealing with the world as it is now instead of dreaming up an ideal then abolishing the death penalty because it doesn't fit into that perfect world.

                            The death penalty is an ugly business. Murder is uglier. The question is what to do about murder and murderers, not whether or not we all think it's peachy. I don't like the fact that good dogs get rabies and have to be put down any more than I like that sweet children sometimes grow up to commit willfull and horrible acts.

                            Furthermore, once a person has committed murder, my concern isn't their rehabilitation (or their suffering) but the community's rehabilitation. If one can show that society and the victims' families fare better without the death penalty than with it, that's all I care about. Rot in jail for life or take a dirt nap, whatever: rehabilitating convicted murderers ranks well below other efforts in my book. If we have some extra money sitting around, let's cure aids or cancer first, for example.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Anti Death Penalty suggestions

                              Originally posted by RandomGuy
                              Do you mean remove the parole system? We don't want some of these people going straight from the joint to the streets with zero restrictions.
                              I don't presume to speak for Root, but here's how I understood his statement. Typically a criminal gets sentenced to a period of X years in prison, with opportunity for parole after Y years. So, for example, Bob gets sentenced to 30 years in prison, but can be eligible for parole after 10. What I think Root said is that he should do the full 30, then go on parole.

                              As for an alternative for the death penalty. Community labor is one, as some have mentioned. Personally, I say air drop them onto a deserted island in the middle of the ocean. No joke.
                              [squadl]
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