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USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

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  • #31
    Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

    Originally posted by ScratchMonkey
    The US textile industry has done a good job of suppressing competition throughout the world through Federal bullying. I'm so proud.
    What the hell are you talking about? Ever heard of China?

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    • #32
      Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

      I'm not offended. doesn't bother me much. I'll work on it
      that sounds like a good idea trooper.
      -Vulcan

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      • #33
        Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

        Originally posted by ScratchMonkey
        Avoid an ellipsis ("...") unless you really know what it's for. In which case, you'll know how many dots to use. (3 within a sentence, 4 at the end.)
        Ah, my grammatical weakness... Ironically, I don't know when or why I picked up this bad habit.
        Become a supporting member!
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        • #34
          Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

          The United States is whatever form of government makes me feel best about my particular political viewpoint.


          ;)
          In game handle: Steel Scion
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          • #35
            Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

            Originally posted by Trooper[SNPR]
            I'm not offended. doesn't bother me much. I'll work on it
            Good man. Believe it or not this stuff is important. One's failure to identify Switzerland on a map will not likely cost one money in terms of promotions and raises, but one's career will almost certainly be limited by an inability to spell or use correct grammar.

            Happily, most people with the skills to accomplish the latter can handle the former with ease.

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            • #36
              Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

              Originally posted by leejo
              one's career will almost certainly be limited by an inability to spell or use correct grammar.
              This is so very important - I know some of us slack off in these forums, but when it comes to evaluating a person's general competence, speech and grammar usually top the list. This should be a thread in and of itself!

              With respect to the original thread - democracy vs. republic, it's important to note that these definitions have certainly changed since the founding of the country, and continue to change. The term 'republic,' for example, was given new meaning by the Chinese and Soviets in the 19th and 20th centuries. This is why you (growing up in the late 20th century) probably never heard the term 'republic' used to describe modern America. Our history books are designed to distance ourselves from our former 'enemies' as well as the language we use to describe them.

              The truth is, America fits both the definitions of rebublic and democracy. The country itself is a republic - but the government is a representative democracy (though the extent of the representation is up to debate). These definitions don't mean much. Ask any political scientist or government expert and they will tell you the same thing - democracy and government is an evolutionary process.

              As to my opinion on democracy in America, I personally happen to agree with Noam Chomsky's thinking that America in the 20th century not only represents a growing failure of democracy, but its political system has begun to actually exploit a false brand of democracy to further private agendas and interests. Detailed examples of this are outlined here: http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20041029.htm

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              • #37
                Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

                4. Do you think of Mexico as a gateway to the world? A window into the international community? No. What about Canada? More so, but no. nor do they think of us as such. I was not insulting those countries, just stating that America is largely cut off from the rest of the world. Again, I mispoke saying "No interest", that was going too far. But do you think that most people would say that Mexico or Canada were just as international as Tokyo, London, Paris, Rome, or Berlin? I think not.
                So just because they don't have lots of international airports that somehow makes them less?

                Tell me:

                Tokyo: Japan, former imperial power
                London: Former British imperial power
                Paris: Former French imperial power
                Rome: Roman Empire arguably an imperial power
                Berlin: German Reich under Hitler an imperial power trying to establish empire

                So is your point to say that only these countries that have at one time, killed a lot of people are worth more international attention? We are not that isolated anymore in the modern world.

                As to my opinion on democracy in America, I personally happen to agree with Noam Chomsky's thinking that America in the 20th century not only represents a growing failure of democracy, but its political system has begun to actually exploit a false brand of democracy to further private agendas and interests. Detailed examples of this are outlined here:
                QFT
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                • #38
                  Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

                  Originally posted by aeroripper
                  Tokyo: Japan, former imperial power
                  London: Former British imperial power
                  Paris: Former French imperial power
                  Rome: Roman Empire arguably an imperial power
                  Berlin: German Reich under Hitler an imperial power trying to establish empire
                  Nice list. All important in today's market, even though they're no longer empires.

                  The one big value in keeping stuff "under one roof" is the lack of trade barriers we enjoy within the US and suffer whenever trading with someone outside. Just the other day I was comparing the price of mailing a tin of cookies from Yuma to the Netherlands, as compared to Boston. It's really outrageous. And compare the hassle of someone in Seattle hiring someone from Miami (far, far away) to hiring someone from Vancouver (right next door).
                  Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                  snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                  Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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                  • #39
                    Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

                    It's probably not surprising that I have one or two thoughts I'd like to offer Mr. Chomsky. DeToqueville offered more insight into the distinctly American style of society and the relationship between individuals and government.

                    Chomsky, and many so-called populist writers, tends to take the position that politics is something that is happening TO individuals. The little guy is having this or that done TO him. The fact is that the little guy typically spends his election day doing many things besides voting.

                    If I don't vote, don't write my congressmen, don't contribute $5 or $10 to parties or causes I support, don't put the sign in my front yard, don't engage my friends and neighbors, guess what: nobody's going to pay much attention to my thoughts on the system.

                    Elections grant the public the ability to fire politicians. It may be difficult to fire an entrenched politician, but it can be done. It helps if people are engaged, but that's a personal decision each of us makes on election day and the days in between.

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                    • #40
                      Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

                      Originally posted by aeroripper
                      So just because they don't have lots of international airports that somehow makes them less?
                      Correct.

                      Tell me:

                      Tokyo: Japan, former imperial power
                      London: Former British imperial power
                      Paris: Former French imperial power
                      Rome: Roman Empire arguably an imperial power
                      Berlin: German Reich under Hitler an imperial power trying to establish empire

                      So is your point to say that only these countries that have at one time, killed a lot of people are worth more international attention? We are not that isolated anymore in the modern world.
                      *my* point would be that international relationships are based on mutual convenience or mutual antipathy. Kissinger once said "nations never do what they ought, only what they must." So either a nation has something I want or something that scares me, or nothing I care about.

                      Given that, if a nation has the ability to kill a large number of my countrymen or my allies, then yes, I will deal with that country in some form or fashion. If a nation lacks attractive goods and services and poses no threat, then they may receive some charitable contributions if they suffer from real humanitarian need and my help can do some good.

                      What's *your* point? That we should use some other calculus for foreign policy decisions? What would that be?

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                      • #41
                        Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

                        Originally posted by leejo
                        What the hell are you talking about? Ever heard of China?
                        Nice article on textile protectionism here:

                        I, T-Shirt

                        It's a review of the book:

                        The Travels of a T-Shirt in the Global Economy: An Economist Examines the Markets, Power, and Politics of World Trade, by Pietra Rivoli, Hoboken, N.J.: John Wiley & Sons, 254 pages, $29.95
                        Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                        snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                        Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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                        • #42
                          Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

                          This whole discussion on which city is more "international" seems a little asinine. I even doubt that many of you mean the same thing with the use of that term.

                          On another note, to claim that one city is better than another by virtue of a head count of international airports to ludicrous. It's like claiming that cities with taller buildings are better than cities with shorter buildings, or cities which have their municipal colours as two of the three primary colours are better than cities which employ secondary colours.

                          Cities should build as many international airports as they require. Do you need 10 airports? Then build 10. But don't claim that the 10 airport city is somehow better than a 9 airport city. Frah!

                          Cities serve purposes. Different cities are better at serving different purposes.

                          [drill][medic][conduct][tg-c1][tpf-c1]
                          [ma-c2][taw-c1]

                          Principles of good Sandbox Etiquette:
                          Assume good faith - Be polite, please! - Work toward agreement. - Argue facts, not personalities. - Concede a point when you have no response to it, or admit when you disagree based on intuition or taste. - Be civil. - Be prepared to apologize. In animated discussions, we often say things we later wish we hadn't. Say so. - Forgive and forget. - Recognize your own biases and keep them in check. - Give praise when due.

                          Treat others as you would have them treat you

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                          • #43
                            Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

                            Thanks. OK I jumped to some conclusions there: I agree that protectionism is ultimately self-defeating. It's like the old aphorism "don't fight the Fed."

                            Having said that, I agree that government should step in to soften the blows that changing technologies and markets have on constituents. It's not black and white. More like playing BF2: do we attack or defend? The answer is both all the time. It's a question of which gets more emphasis and where one chooses to fight.

                            One can view protectionism as an effort to secure a better deal, which sounds less icky.

                            Interesting read. I also found this neat article: http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=5669

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                            • #44
                              Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

                              Originally posted by leejo
                              Having said that, I agree that government should step in to soften the blows that changing technologies and markets have on constituents. It's not black and white. More like playing BF2: do we attack or defend? The answer is both all the time. It's a question of which gets more emphasis and where one chooses to fight.
                              +rep to Leejo for drawing parallels to BF2, that's awesome.

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                              • #45
                                Re: USA - Democracy or Republic, or Both?

                                Originally posted by leejo
                                ...which sounds less icky.
                                No doubt -- that guy has some nutty ideas!! :madsmile:

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