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  • Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

    Originally posted by CingularDuality
    Originally posted by Aeroripper
    Update 11: COPY PROTECTION
    Microsoft has teamed up with Disney and a lot of music labels to improve copy protection for movies, music and software using digital rights management functionality in Vista. Microsoft said they will use heavy copy protection schemes, so users won't be able to copy digital media. This may scare of a lot of consumers, but Microsoft doesn't worry about that, because eventually everyone will go Vista (their words). This means no Warez anymore.
    Fascism...
    Allowing companies to protect their intellectual property is fascism? Take it to the Sandbox, I want to hear your theory on this...
    Well?
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  • #2
    Re: Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

    I take the fascist part being M$ declaring all will use Vista in the end, thus they will have ultimate control over what people can and can't do. Kinda like how they've started making games that only install on WinXP, and not Win2k (despite the fact that the games work fine on 2k). "You wanna do X? Then you have to follow our rules."

    I doubt there should be any worry about this though. For every security measure, there's a hack.
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    • #3
      Re: Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

      There's IP, and then there's My Stuff.

      The movie is what people get to profit from. My copy of the movie should be mine to do as I damn well please with. Once I have a legally obtained copy (as in, purchased in a good store, blahblah), that copy becomes My Stuff. And so long as it doesn't become someone else's My Stuff, I believe that one can go nuts with their copy.
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      • #4
        Re: Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

        My problem with microsoft isnt fascism(infact i dont even know what that means) but its monopoly. There is very little choice when it comes to operating systems which means MS can do many things that wouldnt happen if it was a more free market.
        I know theres linux but when you want to do things like play bf2 and any other new game that comes out, it becomes pretty apparent that you need windows.
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        • #5
          Re: Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

          Whenever I see the term "Intellectual property" I can only to laugh.

          On the one hand you have hollywood bitching, despite the fact that they'll just blow millions of dollars on any number of awful movies while milking their cash cows for all their worth, then on the other hand you have some of the best programmers in the world giving their software away for absolutely free.

          I would buy an operating system to make my life easier. I would buy music to enjoy listening to it. The fact that they companies are now in league to make my life harder and the music more difficult to enjoy tells me that they are not worth my time. These companies are making money hand over fist because there are, in fact, enough honest people out there to support them. And those honest people are the ones who will be punished by this system.

          I don't necessarily agree with the term fascism, but only because it's voluntary. There's a very simple way out: don't use it. Don't buy the DRM-ladened, over produced **** that's out there on the shelves. Don't buy the software because some company has threatened to use monopoly-like force to cram it down your throat. Bam, not facism. Just bad business.

          I'll continue to use Linux, and be happy knowing that the people who make it know a little something about respect and honesty.

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          • #6
            Re: Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

            This goes beyond companies just protecting their IP. It's basically trying to tell consumers what they can and can't do with their own property they have purchased legally. As others have mentioned, if its not going anywhere else but your computer, and your machine, than you should be able to do whatever you want with it. Personally I don't like a company such as Microsoft telling me I can't "copy digital media". So what's their response to that legitimate concern? They don't care, because "everyone will go Vista".

            In the process of Microsoft trying to crack down on piracy, they are limiting usage and putting much tighter restrictions on something you should be able to copy freely to whatever personal device you want... without having to worry about proprietary formats or heavy cd-protection schemes that often cause more problems than solve.

            Which brings me to my point:

            Fascism - a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control


            Since they are making Vista, and they exercise a vast monopoly on the competition (either through corporate bullying, the issues addressed in their anti-trust cases, and takeovers) they stifle out any legitimate competition. They say that everyone will go with Vista, so they have absolute control of digital media and methods of copying it, no matter how legitimate it may be.
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            • #7
              Re: Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

              But people will hack Vista. Look at how many loops every M$ system has had sofar, who says that Vista will be diffrent?

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              • #8
                Re: Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

                Originally posted by aeroripper
                This goes beyond companies just protecting their IP. It's basically trying to tell consumers what they can and can't do with their own property they have purchased legally. As others have mentioned, if its not going anywhere else but your computer, and your machine, than you should be able to do whatever you want with it. Personally I don't like a company such as Microsoft telling me I can't "copy digital media". So what's their response to that legitimate concern? They don't care, because "everyone will go Vista".
                I can buy a weapon legally, that does not mean I can walk down the street shooting it in the air because it's mine and I can do with it as I please. It doesn't mean I can fire it in my back yard either.

                I can buy a car legally, but that doesn't mean I can drive 120 miles an hour down a freeway just because the car is mine.

                Microsoft isn't telling you that you can't copy the media. They are simply saying you can't use THEIR products to do it. I'm not saying this as an attack on you, but a lot of this type of rhetoric hits me as whining for whining's sake rather than any legitimate and practical concern.

                Tell me why you NEED to make copies of movies that you have purchased. Restrict this need to actions that you have found it necessary to take over the past 12 months. Then tell me how using Microsoft products were the only way you could achieve the objectives of this actual need.

                All this aside, you shouldn't be blaming Microsoft for needing to shove DRM down our throats. Place the blame where it is due, on pirates, P2P networks, and the RIAA/MPAA's opinion that DRM is the only solution. I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, but I'm not a sheep and will not ignore all the facts in this situation solely as an excuse to further my distaste of Microsoft.
                Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

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                • #9
                  Re: Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

                  Originally posted by aeroripper
                  Which brings me to my point:

                  Fascism - a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control


                  Since they are making Vista, and they exercise a vast monopoly on the competition (either through corporate bullying, the issues addressed in their anti-trust cases, and takeovers) they stifle out any legitimate competition. They say that everyone will go with Vista, so they have absolute control of digital media and methods of copying it, no matter how legitimate it may be.
                  What was the last OS that tried to out do windows?......i honestly cant think of one, or at least one that could do what they have done better. Yeah theres Linux and UNIX out there but for the common everyday home TG surfing user, windows does exactly what they want and need.

                  Any new company would have to be nuts to go up against a well established company like M$. Yeah we all know that Microsoft has some really shady business practices, just like the Yankees. But they have the money and tech to do what ever they want. I think a statement like "everyone will use Vista" is a lot inflated and full of themselves, but why not. Would you work for a company or buy a product for a company that says "well lets hope our product sells", I surely wouldn't.

                  Its all about money, when its cheaper to just buy a company that fits your needs then it is to just create their own tools or product, they are gonna do it.

                  Its not fascism its Free market.


                  and what apo said.....exactly.
                  that sounds like a good idea trooper.
                  -Vulcan

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                  • #10
                    Re: Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

                    Originally posted by aeroripper
                    Which brings me to my point:

                    Fascism - a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

                    Could you explain how you think fascism, as you defined it, applies to this situation?
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                    • #11
                      Re: Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

                      Originally posted by CingularDuality
                      Could you explain how you think fascism, as you defined it, applies to this situation?
                      Since they are making Vista, and they exercise a vast monopoly on the competition (either through corporate bullying, the issues addressed in their anti-trust cases, and takeovers) they stifle out any legitimate competition. They say that everyone will go with Vista, so they have absolute control of digital media and methods of copying it, no matter how legitimate it may be.
                      ^^^

                      It's a loose interpretation of the literal meaning of "fascism" as in talking about a politcal party or government, but the spirit of it is there. There are qualities and traits of fascism as I have stated in the previous post and the quote above.
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                      • #12
                        Re: Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

                        Originally posted by aeroripper
                        ^^^

                        It's a loose interpretation of the literal meaning of "fascism" as in talking about a politcal party or government, but the spirit of it is there. There are qualities and traits of fascism as I have stated in the previous post and the quote above.
                        Except that MS doesn't have a monopoly on operating systems. You've got plenty of choices, some of which are cheaper and, arguably, better.

                        MS controls a percentage of the market for OSs. They have absolute control over nothing but their own software. And in the EU, they don't even have that!
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                        • #13
                          Re: Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

                          Except that MS doesn't have a monopoly on operating systems. You've got plenty of choices, some of which are cheaper and, arguably, better.

                          MS controls a percentage of the market for OSs. They have absolute control over nothing but their own software. And in the EU, they don't even have that!
                          Hmm good point. I suppose fascism was not the word I should be looking for, but I still see their DRM methods as excessively authoritative.

                          The problem with them having a monopoly though is that other companies cannot create software that many people will buy because microsoft has the majority, and everyone HAS to make it for the Windows OS so they can have access to the largest user base. I suppose this is more of an issue of consumers switching to other OS alternatives, and more companies developing top rated programs that will work well on all the OSes out there, instead of just developing for windows and helping them ensure their dominance.
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                          • #14
                            Re: Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

                            Originally posted by aeroripper
                            The problem with them having a monopoly though is that other companies cannot create software that many people will buy because microsoft has the majority, and everyone HAS to make it for the Windows OS so they can have access to the largest user base. I suppose this is more of an issue of consumers switching to other OS alternatives, and more companies developing top rated programs that will work well on all the OSes out there, instead of just developing for windows and helping them ensure their dominance.
                            Which is an entirely different topic that is completely unrelated to DRM, right?
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                            • #15
                              Re: Digital Rights Management=Fascism!

                              Yes it is another topic indeed. Was there something more you wished to talk about with DRM?
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