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Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

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  • Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

    I was browsing youtube recently, and I found a video entitled "Olbermann spanks O'Reilly." I am an O'Reilly fan (don't get off topic), and I felt the need to watch it. Well, you guys should watch it too and then read the rest of the post. -->Watch HERE<--


    Now, after watching the video you can see that O'Reilly was wrong and the other guy really pointed it out. That is enough about that.

    The point I really wanted to share was this: speech patterns and intelligence.
    Lately I have been listening to "The Walton and Johnson Radio Show" (available via radio only to people who live in LA and TX), although they are from the south, they promote good speaking habits. I like it, and try to improve my speech every day. Although it might not seem like it in the forums, I do type and write pretty well when taking my time and proofreading.

    Then speaking in public comes along (on the radio, TV, at the workplace).
    My manager at work speaks really badly. He throws in many of "you knows" and bad clichés. In my English comp class we were instructed to stay away from those and think for yourself, meaning don't let outdated clichés speak for you and don’t assume that everyone "KNOWS". George Orwell wrote a short essay just about that titled "Politics and the English language"(it is a short-- short essay, and it is a good read, look for it.). I now know my manager is a dummy, and doesn't know a think about workplace management, and keeping the workers' morale high. One of the vice presidents, on the other hand, can speak really well, and knows how things should get done.

    The worst part about working at that place is the fact that I am working with about 12 high school dropouts who can't hold a job. Their language is infecting me, and I just spent an entire semester trying to speak better in a college audience. Phrases like, “It be that time of the morn agin huh Tires"(my name is Tyrus), and "It be up in dem racks up dere dem curls (actually pronounced coils)." Don't get me wrong, I am as far south as people come, and I have a heavy Cajun accent, but I DO USE CORRECT SUBJECT/VERB AGREEMENT!!! In short, don’t let it happen to you, that is, let an entire semester of hard work go to waste because you are immersed in an area with sub-par education.

    Enough about personal experiences, lets talk about what this video think about, or correctly, about what this video made me think, or something like that. Most news people speak in a tone that is easy to comprehend and very conversational, but it lowers the bar for the listeners. This Olberman guy speaks from a pre-written essay, obviously, but it seems as if that is the way all educated people should speak. Raise the bar, not lower it. Walton and Johnson often refer to this phenomenon called a “Ten Percenter(10%er).” XXX: If you go to the W&J site there is nudity under the 10%er page: XXX This is derived from a statistic that only 10% of people who listen to the radio have an intelligence level, that of which I do not know, to be over a certain fixed number. The number is what would be needed to understand and agree or disagree with the news, or news people. Disagree as in the case with O’Reilly’s false knowledge, or any other similar situation. Agree as in follow the talking box and do everything it says. Prime example: DIVERT ALL ATTENTION TO BRAD and ANGELINA!!!

    In conclusion, I would like to hear more people who talk like the Olberman guy, using few clichés, and lots of precise wording. Let’s start a revolution, become smart, think for yourselves, and STOP CHANNELING MONEY TO CELEB BABYS!!!

    Discuss...


  • #2
    Re: Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

    It's so common in punditry to draw from complete known falsehoods or just common assumptions. In this case, O'Reilly probably skimmed some internet article that was hyperlinked from a Haditha/Abu Graib article and got it bass-akwards. Just goes to show why the American public should TUNE OUT from the cable news networks' shows that do nothing but pit (D) vs. (R) and let them shout their way to their point. The O'Reilly thing is just the tip of the iceburg.

    Impactful stuff by Olbermann BTW, thx for the link.
    "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
    He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

    - Attributed to General George Patton, Jr.

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    • #3
      Re: Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

      I'm glad you are looking at the glass the same way(See, the cliches are killing me. Think for yourself Tyrus, think for yourself!)

      I'm glad we see eye to eye, no... we are on the same page, no...

      I am glad we agree (there we go, short and exact) on the matter of news' shows methods. To add to my previous discussion, I think that the news (AKA facts) should be reported truthfully and unbiased(never going to happen), then and only then could we create our feelings about what is happening IRL. The trend of the media these days is to report the favorable information, THEN follow with commentators, such as Bill, to tell you how you should feel. This technique seems to be working well because their arguments seem full proof mainly because they only report half of the story. Along with the important news, media seems to be stuck on the idea that the world gives a hoot about Brad Pitt's baby. So much so that People Mag, or US Mag spent $10 million on a picture. They said they would have to sell an additional z(z=outrageous number) amount of copies to get positive profits. Sadly, in the first week of the mag's release they surpassed zX2. Silly general public, what are we thinking. Again, we need to get smarter and stop the insanity yet to come. Remember 1984? Imagine the media being the antagonist.

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      • #4
        Re: Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

        I generally agree with you Tyrus/beth.

        But

        Proper, well spoken, English (or the fine use of any language) can be nothing more than pretty wrappings around a pile of cow poop.

        And a clich&#233; ridden, poorly spoken, accent heavy speech pattern can contain enough wisdom to help one decide a position.

        And both of the above statements switched can also be true.

        In recent times it seems as if many in America have taken form over substance. Some believe if the person is "well spoken" then they are correct. Other believe those that use down home talk hold the key to the truth. Neither group seems to actually examine the substance of what is said.

        Maybe it is because there is too much information, poll results, expert opinion to decide on the "facts". So instead superficial things like speech patterns and grammar usage take precedence in decision making.

        I do think the ideal is for wise individuals that are genuinely concerned with the issue at hand use the language in a proper manner.

        But I personally would be satisfied with wise individuals that are genuinely concerned. This is what the current discourse lacks.
        I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
        - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
        - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
        - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
        - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
        - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
        - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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        • #5
          Re: Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

          I generally agree with you Tyrus/beth.
          Thanks


          Proper, well spoken, English (or the fine use of any language) can be nothing more than pretty wrappings around a pile of cow poop.
          Such as in the beggining of the essay, "A Modest Proposal" by Johnathan Swift
          For those who haven't read it, It is a well put together essay about how eating babies would solve many problems, but later in the essay he shows his true purpose for writing it.


          And a cliché ridden, poorly spoken, accent heavy speech pattern can contain enough wisdom to help one decide a position.
          IMO, This type of person seems to be a very practical person, knows how things function, and how to solve practical problems, they also rarley/don't rely on polls, stats, or commitees to help them come to a conclusion.



          Maybe it is because there is too much information, poll results, expert opinion to decide on the "facts". So instead superficial things like speech patterns and grammar usage take precedence in decision making.
          You did catch me here, because form watching that one video, I thought/ assumes he was a credible guy, but many politicians/ media people can create that false facade. Often is the case with southern politics. the perosn who dreses well and speaks well will win an election, no matter how he/she stands on issues. A national example could be the Kennedy/Nixon election. Once the debates were aired on TV, Kennedy stole the votes.

          But I personally would be satisfied with wise individuals that are genuinely concerned. This is what the current discourse lacks.
          I am not quite sure if you are saying that this entire discussion lacks wise people who are concerned or something else, but I am trying my best to gain knowledge with this discussion, and hopefully spark further intellegent discussion on the issue.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

            In my English comp class we were instructed to stay away from those and think for yourself
            Irony meter through the roof ;)

            But yes, I agree. I'm very annoyed by the amount of likes, ums, and basicallys used in every day conversation. I think it has to do with knowing what you're going to say before you say it, and most people just don't think that far ahead.

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            • #7
              Re: Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

              If you work in the Northeast, particularly around the NY tri-state area, and particularly in professional circles, you know that having an accent, drawl, or lazy speech pattern can limit your career options. Southerners, even well-spoken southerners, have the most problems, but a heavy Brooklyn or even New England accent can do just as much harm. Like it or not, how you speak is a prime indicator (conscious and unconscious to the listener) of your background, upbringing, and education level. In print, spelling, diction, and vocabulary serve a similar niche.

              That doesn't mean that one's ideas lack merit if presented in a folksy or provincial way, but it does mean that certain audiences will make certain judgements based on these qualitative factors before absorbing your point intellectually. Part of learning to express oneself clearly is knowing the sensibilities of one's audience and adjusting to fit their needs as listeners.

              While I agree that we can find wisdom in the coarsest language depending on the speaker, I'm skeptical of the importance we tend to place, as a society, on populist folksiness. The blue collar everyman is NOT always the hero. Sometimes he's just a hick. Not that I'm holding up Ivy League elites as paragons of thought - plenty of pundits and columnists have taken the bar down a few pegs over the last few years.

              Ted Koppel stands out for me as one of the most well-spoken journalists of my lifetime, able to clearly articulate a nuanced idea in a short amount of airtime. Dan Rather strikes me as one of the worst - prone to muddled editorializing and quaint but phony colloquial expressions that served more to build up his persona than impart knowledge.
              In game handle: Steel Scion
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Re: Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

                Irony does appear in this sentence, but what I was trying to say was...

                We were -->encouraged<--- to think of our own way to describe things, and make points rather than overusing cliches that loose meaning, or the meaning gets transformed if repeated over and over.

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                • #9
                  Re: Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

                  Having never watched Olbermann's show (my understanding is nobody does, but a robot or something sometimes posts portions of it to YouTube for discussion), I did not have an opinion about him as a pundit.

                  Recently I read an e-mail written by Keith Olbermann where he told someone they "couldn't be stupider, wronger, or dumber, if [they] were Ann Coulter's c*nt."

                  The marked contrast between this and the Olbermann Beth cites ("itt seems as if that is the way all educated people should speak") leads me to another thought.

                  Speaking well may keep you in the game as far as being taken seriously, but it only takes once to be moved into the "idiot" pile. I make no judgements as to the intelligence of Ann Coulter's nether bits, but I do know that if I ever were to see Olbermann speaking eloquently, from one of those "prepared essays," I will still only see him as someone who resorts to invective over substance when he isn't being paid for it.
                  ---
                  Sources say the Dow Jones' decline is directly related to Dethklok front-man Nathan Explosion's constant deleting of potential new albums.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

                    Falafel anyone?

                    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...3mackris1.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

                      Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande
                      Maybe it is because there is too much information, poll results, expert opinion to decide on the "facts". So instead superficial things like speech patterns and grammar usage take precedence in decision making.
                      This is insightful.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

                        Well, that looks like one very long, UNpithy personal attack. The discussion between Wesley Clark, the second coming of Christ Himself, according to Oberman, and O'reilly was about whether or not the additional Gitmo pictures should be released. O'reilly said some factually untrue things, but I don't see how those statements were material to the matter at hand.

                        Oberman chooses to make a 5 minute piece about what a jerk, soldier-hating, faux patriot O'reilly is. Refresh my memory, why is it people don't like O'reilly? How is this piece demonstrating more elevated discourse or more noble behavior? Sure it makes folks who dislike O'reilly feel good. Score one for the good guys, sorta. But so what? Furthermore, that was LONG!!! No wonder nobody watches his show. Windbagitis.
                        Last edited by leejo; 06-22-2006, 02:35 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

                          "...a false patriot who would rather be loud than right".

                          Man that hit the nail on the head.
                          Beatnik

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                          • #14
                            Re: Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

                            Olberman's tirade certainly adds credence to the adage that in fighting a beast, one becomes a beast.
                            A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

                            "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

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                            • #15
                              Re: Olbermann spanks O'Reilly, and other issues.

                              This thread is really confusing me - is it about speech and language or about O'Reilly vs. Olberman?

                              Speech and language are on the decline in America. It's been that way for a long time, and shows no signs of reversing course. On the positive side, at least it still seems to get you respsect in this world.

                              I don't get it with O'Reilly. Who calls an op-ed show a "no spin zone?" That's like calling a bar a "no booze zone." You can tell he's an idiot before he even opens his mouth. As for Olberman, his program strikes me as an alternative to "The Daily Show." It's actually pretty funny sometimes, but again, this is not a news program, it's a running commentary so filled with sarcasm that it's difficult to actually determine his stance on the issue at hand - let alone the actual issue at hand.

                              I sortof feel like an Andy Rooney here (who happens to be the epitome of a analy-grammatical commentator), but cable news has officially become worthless. It's not a news source - it's entertainment, just like the other 499 channels (except for PBS when they air 'Frontline' :) )

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