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  • USN_Squid
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    ...except for the fact that the incumbent conservative party was leading the polls by a wide margin right up to the bombing. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but there were some quotes as well from people saying they changed their vote after the bombing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quarath
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    I am no expert on this but my Brother is currently living in Spain and he says that pulling the Spanish troops out was a campaign promise of the newly elected officials and was all ready in the works before the bombing of Madrid took place. The Bombing had nothing to do with it it was just a coincedence.

    Leave a comment:


  • DudeMan
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    Originally posted by Benny_
    ok, fair enough. I didn't actually tell you to, I told all of you to. Did you seriously expect to vent on here without a response?

    Never mind. I'll accept that.

    thank you,

    Leave a comment:


  • Benny_
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    Originally posted by DudeMan
    Benny i started the thread and from the outset i said its not a debate i am ventiong. if you do not like the way i posted it. go tell someone who cares. i dont care if it was a balanced argument blah blah... the spanish will pull out. good luck to them because now eta know exactly what to do to get a rise out of them.

    and i also stick by what i said dont tell me to untwist blah blah, there was no need for it.
    ok, fair enough. I didn't actually tell you to, I told all of you to. Did you seriously expect to vent on here without a response?

    Never mind. I'll accept that.

    Leave a comment:


  • DudeMan
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    Benny i started the thread and from the outset i said its not a debate i am ventiong. if you do not like the way i posted it. go tell someone who cares. i dont care if it was a balanced argument blah blah... the spanish will pull out. good luck to them because now eta know exactly what to do to get a rise out of them.

    and i also stick by what i said dont tell me to untwist blah blah, there was no need for it.

    Leave a comment:


  • DudeMan
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    Originally posted by USN_Squid
    Sorry I wasn't clear....I adamantly support our efforts in Iraq and the bombing in Spain only strengthens my resolve to put my vote where it counts and fight terrorism. I am at the same time anxious for our work to be done in Iraq. I don't think we should withdraw until the country has stabilized, however.

    my apologies. i was wrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • Benny_
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    Originally posted by DudeMan

    and do not tell me to untwist knickers rubbish.. it isnt needed and you could have made your point without trying to belittle the oposition to your point

    thank you.
    1. I wasn't belittling anyone, if you have a complex, not really my problem, if you feel the need to talk down to me jump right ahead.

    2. Back to the subject. I only posted what I had listened to on the radio and on the news, and heard second hand from someone back from Barcelona yesterday, which I can understand may be in-admissable. So.......my opinion still stands, I'm not going to get involved in the war discussion which I think we can all do without. In my pink and fluffy world the Spanish populus felt that this was one step too far and made the voting decision to change their leaders. Irrespective of your or my personal views, if 90% of the public were against the war and the leader went anyway, are they not exercising that right in light of recent revelations or lack thereof?

    I may or may not agree with it, but I understand it.

    Now I can also understand yours and everyones disappointment in the vote, but a rant full of anger isn't the way to say it. Let's hope they do follow the decent path and all of our troops can be out of there soon.

    Regarding the Eta blaming
    Some Spaniards were vitriolic in accusing Aznar of "manipulating" public opinion by spending three days blaming the bombings on the Basque separatist group ETA, despite its denials.
    And the troop withdrawal?
    The Socialists have pledged to withdraw Spain's 1 300 troops from Iraq if the United Nations does not take control by June 30 when Washington plans to hand power back to Iraqis
    Doesn't sound so bad to me.

    In some comments, Zapatero has sounded definitive in wanting to pull out Spanish troops, while in others and in his campaign pledge he has left open the door for continued Spanish presence in Iraq if the United Nations takes over from the U.S.-led authority

    I don't want this to turn into a personal debate, I think we all generally agree this may lead to bad things(tm), but lets hope not. As Squid has just posted, it's a delicate balance.
    Sources
    http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L1414804.htm
    http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=4569989
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3510142.stm

    Leave a comment:


  • USN_Squid
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    Originally posted by DudeMan
    so you disagree with our work in iraq. thats disheartening.

    ur Country men and women are over there trying to secure a future for iraq and its populace and just because some spanish city had a bomb which yur nation and mine have had at some point in the past they pul out and let the terroists win.. no thanks this time we finish the job and secure a hopeful future for the new government in power.
    Sorry I wasn't clear....I adamantly support our efforts in Iraq and the bombing in Spain only strengthens my resolve to put my vote where it counts and fight terrorism. I am at the same time anxious for our work to be done in Iraq. I don't think we should withdraw until the country has stabilized, however.

    Leave a comment:


  • luna
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    Originally posted by DudeMan
    so you disagree with our work in iraq. thats disheartening.

    ur Country men and women are over there trying to secure a future for iraq and its populace and just because some spanish city had a bomb which yur nation and mine have had at some point in the past they pul out and let the terroists win.. no thanks this time we finish the job and secure a hopeful future for the new government in power.
    I think squid was SUPPORTING our work over in Iraq....

    Leave a comment:


  • DudeMan
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    Originally posted by USN_Squid
    True, and I hope our troops are right behind them locking the door on their way home.

    so you disagree with our work in iraq. thats disheartening.

    ur Country men and women are over there trying to secure a future for iraq and its populace and just because some spanish city had a bomb which yur nation and mine have had at some point in the past they pul out and let the terroists win.. no thanks this time we finish the job and secure a hopeful future for the new government in power.

    Leave a comment:


  • DudeMan
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    Originally posted by Benny_
    Wow, untwist your knickers.

    The reason that the general majority voted for the other party is because after the attacks, the government immeadiately blamed Eta (in the face of otherwise apparent evidence). Feeling somewhat lied to and without going back over the same 'Reasons for War' argument, they felt the need to stand up and be counted and therefore the majority ousted the party.

    With regard Iraq, it is a reaction based upon what is percieved as a lying government, and the Prime Minister has said he will withdraw his troops unless things change. (All 1400 of them).

    The general consensus is that they will wait for the handover date (30th June?? can't be bothered to go link it) and view toward a more stable Iraq.

    With regard to Iraq, we all know the reason it is related is because Iraq is made up of Al Qaida, as is the bogeyman who lives in my shed.

    Not a good example perhaps, but certainly not the 'treacherous dogs' you are looking for. They voted out percieved lying to make the peoples views of such action clear.
    actually Benny i have talked with my Politics lecturer today on the subject and he seems to agree to me that because the government put the finger of blaim to eta as a first knee jerk reaction would not provoke this kind of vote. the vote has come from scare mungerring.

    think of it with regards to the spanish, eta are the only known terrorist group acting in span therefore you would be inclined to think that they were the cause.

    and there are no real links between iraq and alqueda, sadam did fund some terror ats but himself and inladen hated each other.

    and do not tell me to untwist knickers rubbish.. it isnt needed and you could have made your point without trying to belittle the oposition to your point

    thank you.

    Leave a comment:


  • USN_Squid
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    Originally posted by fr1j0l3
    I've also got nothing concrete to go on.

    If circumstantial evidence is all it takes to pre-emptively attack another nation, that's scary.

    And who's to blame someone for not wanting to go along with that string of events?

    Even so, this troop pullout "might" happen when the handover is approved anyways.
    True, and I hope our troops are right behind them locking the door on their way home.

    Leave a comment:


  • fr1j0l3
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    Originally posted by USN_Squid
    I can't seem to form a concrete opinion on this, but I'm curious how you can. Seriously, what has formed your opinion about Iraq having no connections with Terror groups?

    I admit there seems to be no real "smoking gun", but there is so much circumstantial evidence (salman pak, abu nidal, ramzi yousef, etc.) I don't understand how you could rule the possibility out.
    I've also got nothing concrete to go on.

    If circumstantial evidence is all it takes to pre-emptively attack another nation, that's scary.

    And who's to blame someone for not wanting to go along with that string of events?

    Even so, this troop pullout "might" happen when the handover is approved anyways.

    Leave a comment:


  • Benny_
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    Wow, untwist your knickers.

    The reason that the general majority voted for the other party is because after the attacks, the government immeadiately blamed Eta (in the face of otherwise apparent evidence). Feeling somewhat lied to and without going back over the same 'Reasons for War' argument, they felt the need to stand up and be counted and therefore the majority ousted the party.

    With regard Iraq, it is a reaction based upon what is percieved as a lying government, and the Prime Minister has said he will withdraw his troops unless things change. (All 1400 of them).

    The general consensus is that they will wait for the handover date (30th June?? can't be bothered to go link it) and view toward a more stable Iraq.

    With regard to Iraq, we all know the reason it is related is because Iraq is made up of Al Qaida, as is the bogeyman who lives in my shed.

    Not a good example perhaps, but certainly not the 'treacherous dogs' you are looking for. They voted out percieved lying to make the peoples views of such action clear.

    Leave a comment:


  • USN_Squid
    replied
    Re: spanish troops.

    Originally posted by fr1j0l3
    terror in spain equates to iraq how?

    Afghanistan, yes, Iraq?
    I can't seem to form a concrete opinion on this, but I'm curious how you can. Seriously, what has formed your opinion about Iraq having no connections with Terror groups?

    I admit there seems to be no real "smoking gun", but there is so much circumstantial evidence (salman pak, abu nidal, ramzi yousef, etc.) I don't understand how you could rule the possibility out.

    Leave a comment:

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